Russia's fight against Japan



  • What type of effort should the Russian’s make to slow the Japanese in the begining?

    6inf?
    8inf?

    should you send fighters to help trade territories?

    i typically play Axis at home and havent yet completed my first game online (im playing two, both as Axis). When playing as the Japs, I know I like to expand as fast as I can… which is why I hate seeing the Russians send reinforcements. On the other hand, when im Japan im also Germany, and Im able to push into Russia when too much is sent.

    So, what are your thoughts?



    1. Do you refer to the Yakut stack ? It can be as low as 3-4 inf. What Japanese threat can be in Buryat after 1 round ? (Except here the case of a Japanese transport bid). On Turn 2-3 the situation changes, the decision is whether to put enough troops to hold, or withdraw to Novosibirsk and threaten an ‘interior position’ counterattack.
      1’) Then Buryat is to have a 1 inf delayer left, or empty ? Japan may want all troops for China anyway.
      1") More important is if fighters are in range (Moscow) or not. Counterattacking Buryat is not the best business (as Japan may counter with battleships too, often ‘free’ shots).

    2. Sinkiang can receive 2inf, may help hold on Turn 2 or threaten counterattack (with tank/s back) if China has few Jap survivors.

    3. Persia can receive 2inf, may help hold India on Turn 2.

    All these help ‘stop the Japanese in the beginning’…



  • agreed, all those options slow Japan. but then again, these options also tie up resources needed to defend against germany … i guess I was wondering where everyone thought the optimal balance was



  • @mjkusn01:

    agreed, all those options slow Japan. but then again, these options also tie up resources needed to defend against germany … i guess I was wondering where everyone thought the optimal balance was

    The hardest decision is made on R1
    what should you leave in Buryatia?

    Several thoughts exist:

    • stack with everything (6 inf), hope UK is able to take out the Japanese transport in sz59 or those 6 inf are toast.

    • pull back but leave something in BRY… but what?  1 at the very least.  2 is not bad… any more then you might as well stack.  Do you set-up for a counter if Japan takes bry?  That would require ftr(s) in range

    • Leave bry empty, pull back strongly.  leave 4 inf in range of sinkiang for an R2 reinforcement to slow Japans middle push.  This works fairly well and you don’t lose too much too soon



  • @mjkusn01:

    What type of effort should the Russian’s make to slow the Japanese in the begining?

    6inf?
    8inf?

    should you send fighters to help trade territories?

    Western territories are worth 2-3 IPC.  Eastern territories are generally worth 1 IPC.  If you can afford to send infantry east, by all means, but it isn’t easy to get them back west in time to slow a German tank build.

    Getting back China or Ssinkiang is worthless for income; the Japs recapture before the US receives income for those territories.

    i typically play Axis at home and havent yet completed my first game online (im playing two, both as Axis). When playing as the Japs, I know I like to expand as fast as I can… which is why I hate seeing the Russians send reinforcements. On the other hand, when im Japan im also Germany, and Im able to push into Russia when too much is sent.

    So, what are your thoughts?

    The main thing stopping the Japs from expansion in Asia is logistics.  You just can’t send guys in that quickly; J1 you need to build transports, J2 you can take the Asian coast, J3 you can start progressing.

    I wouldn’t bulk up at Burytia unless you land the UK Indian fighter there.

    Japan can whack Burytia with 4 ground units and mass air - true, doing so prevents Japan from doing Pearl, but accompanied by German gains in Africa and Europe, Russia can find itself in trouble pretty fast.

    If Japan ignores Burytia, the Allies get some benefits - the US bomber can hit the sea zone east of Japan and  USSR can take a weak Manchuria on USSR2.  But the benefits are limited.  A good Japanese player will either leave a battleship as a transport escort if leaving navy west of Japan, or just build transports east of Japan, and that means that USSR can’t do much with those Burytia infantry except send one to capture Manchuria and pull the rest back to Yakut (if the USSR infantry stay on the coast, even 3 Jap transports plus moderate air support means the USSR will be wiped out, and the Japs should have FOUR transports at least).

    I recommend pulling back.  Leave nothing or 1 infantry in Burytia, put 3 infantry in Yakut, and pull the Yakut infantry to Novosibirsk, from where they can help reinforce China next round.


  • Moderator

    I agree with NPB in that you need to look at the ipc values.  Bury, Yak and SFE are all 1 ipc each and Sin and Chi are the US’s.  It is not economically sound for Russia to try and hold the Far Eastern Territories.  Worst case is if you just give up those 3 and lose the 3 ipc and Japan gains it them it is a swing of 2 inf.  But if you are sending 2 inf a turn from Mos to help defend it turns out as a wash and there should be no way Russia should be able to really hold Bury and SFE for very long anyway.  So now you are are sending 1-2 inf to help secure Yak.  Don’t bother.

    The absolute fastest Japan can get to Novo is rd 3 in a perfect scenerio, but realistically it is rd 4 or 5 it could even be rd 6 if Japan sent a few inf to claim India (or Aus).  That means Russia has at least 4-5 turns to throw everything it can at Germany and only lose sfe, bury and yak permanently to Japan.

    I really won’t consider engaging Japan until they can threaten a serious move to Novo or Kaz.

    As long as you buy some tanks with Russia (maybe 1 a turn) you can station them in Wrus or Cauc and with the 6-12 inf you had out east to start if you retreat most of them all the way back to Mos (you hold out east until it is clear Japan can kill the blocking inf) then on say R5 you buy 7-8 inf, you place 4 Cauc/3-4 Mos and bam you’ll have an army of ~10 inf, 8-10 arm, 2 ftrs to threaten Novo.  (by now the UK/US should at least have some minor help going in Europe)

    And if you retreated the US Sin inf before they get killed that gives you two free trades where the US can send 1 inf, 1 bom vs. 1 inf and do some of the work for Russia.

    I also like to retreat the UK inf in Trj/Per/Ind as well and really nit pick Japan as they try to expand.

    So I like the full tactical retreat and if things go really well I may eventually stack in Novo or Kaz esp if I have UK/US back-up with a tank or two or some ftrs.

    I don’t mind trading with Japan as they reach the boarder of Mos, I just don’t want to let them stack or hold Kaz/Novo.  By waiting to engage you shorten your supply lines while Japan has to wait 2-3 turns for newly purchased units to finally get to the front lines.  Even if by some miracle Japan earns 50 ipc in rd 3 you don’t have to worry about seeing those new units on the front lines until rd 5-6 and a lot can happen in the mean time.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I prefer to focus 100% of Russia’s attention on Germany.  By the time Japan’s attacking Novosibirsk, England should be set up to take it back.



  • For the mid-game I found very effective two slow (inf+arty) Soviet stacks in Caucasus and Novosibirsk with a good tank reserve built in Moscow threatening 5 approaches !

    The Novo hedgehog has the advantage of keeping separate the Siberian and Chinese approaches.

    Still don’t know a good way to defend against a Japanese southern main approach (India-Persia) combined with major German pressure, both with flank harassment on other approaches.



  • Initially the Southern route is blocked with a 3-way attack/defense using the remaining Middle Eastern UK forces (plus AF flown in from UK), the 2 USA INF salvaged from Sinkiang (pluse AF flown into Russia) and the Russian forces.

    If you are playing a North African Dominance Strategy with the US (and possibly with UK assistance), then by the time pressure becomes too great on Caucuses and the early US and UK units are dead, the replacement US/UK units are arriving from their long march from Algeria, Libya, Egypt, T-J to hit Persia and break up the Japan advance.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I’ve never known what to do with the Americans in N. Africa.  I can easily get them to Persia, but the problem comes in that Germany is on the verge of taking Caucasus and Japan is building a stack in Novosibirsk.

    Best solution I’ve thought of is to make a run for the Industrials in India and FIC and hope to get a beach head in Japan’s homeland and force a retreat, allowing England and Russia to push the Germans without threat from the rear.



  • If you are feeling very bold stack the 6 infantry in the east in Bury and send the 2 Moscow tanks to Yakut. This will require Allied assistance but it gives Russia the option of attacking Manchuria on round 2.

    As has been stated above the eastern territories are only worth 1 IPC and 3 together add up to 1 Infantry per turn. Also trying to hold or fight over these territories will end up getting the Soviet air force out of position to attack German targets not a good thing.



  • @a44bigdog:

    If you are feeling very bold stack the 6 infantry in the east in Bury and send the 2 Moscow tanks to Yakut. This will require Allied assistance but it gives Russia the option of attacking Manchuria on round 2.

    As has been stated above the eastern territories are only worth 1 IPC and 3 together add up to 1 Infantry per turn. Also trying to hold or fight over these territories will end up getting the Soviet air force out of position to attack German targets not a good thing.

    You put 6 inf 2 tanks in Manchuria on R2, and I kill them on J2.

    Works for me.  😄

    There should be around 2 fighters 1 bomber plus minimum 6 transported units (I buy 3 transports on J1, so you’d see 8 with me) plus surviving units from China.


  • '11

    I have sent one tank and a couple infantry from Moscow and surrounding territores into Sinkiang to help bolster the American defenses. On the Soviet Far Eastern territores I push my infantry into the only two territores that seemed the most likely spots for Japanese offensives. Sorry, but I do not know the names of the territories, except for the Soviet Far East.

    From the games that I have played, it seems that Russia really should not focus too much attention on Japan. Instead just set up defenses and send all available units to the Western front.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I’ve seen 7 infantry, 3 armor and a fighter in India for Russia on R3 before.  Guess that might slow down Japan, but not by enough to stop Germany’s rapid expansion. 😛



  • So mojo on J2 ALL of Japan’s land units are now sitting in Manchuria. That is not exactly a bad thing for Russia. As a matter of fact it has just bought Russia some time to focus completely on Germany. In your example it will be J5 before a Japanese Infantry sets foot in Novosibirsk. That is plenty of time to allow the Allies time to start relieving Russia on the German front.



  • @a44bigdog:

    So mojo on J2 ALL of Japan’s land units are now sitting in Manchuria. That is not exactly a bad thing for Russia. As a matter of fact it has just bought Russia some time to focus completely on Germany. In your example it will be J5 before a Japanese Infantry sets foot in Novosibirsk. That is plenty of time to allow the Allies time to start relieving Russia on the German front.

    I agree that all of Japan’s land units in Manchuria is good for Russia, particularly when thinking of India.

    Losing 6 Russian infantry for 3-5 Jap infantry tops, though, is bad for Russia.  First, there’s nothing to oppose Japan’s advance unless you’ve sent out even more infantry.  Second, those Russian infantry would have been valuable at the western front against Germany.

    Japan often doesn’t see serious pushing in Asia until J3 anyways, as fighters return from Pearl.  Unless Germany and Japan are doing some serious tank dashing, and given a competent Russia player, Japan should not have seen a take and hold of Novosibirsk by J3-4 anyways.  J5 Novosibirsk is inconvenient, but given the price paid in Russian blood, acceptable.

    All in all, as Japan, I would rather kill 6 infantry early at favorable odds, than have to deal with 6 more infantry potentially used as fodder with fighters and tanks backing up the punch, or an infantry stack sitting on Novosibirsk as I approach Moscow.  Russia receives one infantry in compensation for taking Manchuria but loses 6; Japan loses 3-4 infantry but the Japanese infantry push backed up by 4-5 transports is strong.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    You know, I have to admit.  I’ve been cooling it a lot with Japan lately.  Racing out to take over the world looks great on paper, but you have no security on your lines of supply.

    I’m also growing to like the Sinkiang or even Novosibirsk Industrial Complex with Japan.  Especially if Germany is getting hammered. (Since it helps you rebuild after an assault on Moscow.)

    The idea being, Moscow falls to Japan, Berlin falls to America on the same round.  If Germany owns Caucasus, the allies would be silly to liberate it.  That means Japan could really use the extra 2 units right there in the red zone, and when they DO get Caucasus (if ever) it only helps them more.

    Remember, you can always shut down your factories in the rear if they are no longer needed.  No rule that says you MUST use all your factories to their full output capacity, eh?


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 14
  • 30
  • 25
  • 23
  • 12
  • 15
  • 3
  • 7
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

83
Online

13.9k
Users

34.2k
Topics

1.3m
Posts