• '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yes, Libertarians generally “steal” Republican votes and Green Party candidates generally “steal” Democrat Votes.  I put “steal” in quotes because I don’t think ANYONE can steal a vote.  You earn votes.  But to kinda make the statement clearer for those who do not understand politics, steal works.  Basically Libertarians and Republicans are conservative, thus, a Libertarian Candidate will earn (or steal) some of the votes that would have gone to the Republican party.  Likewise with Green Party and Democrats.

    That’s why Ross Perot was a “spoiler” that got Bill Clinton elected twice. (Bill never earned more then half the popular vote, he was always ruling with less then a majority mandate.)

    In 1992 it was Ross Perot, George Bush and Bill Clinton.

    Perot got 19% of the vote
    Bush got 37% of the vote
    Clinton got 43% of the vote
    And various other parties got the last 1%

    In 1996  it was Ross Perot, Bob Dole and Bill Clinton.

    Perot got 9% of the vote
    Dole got 41% of the vote
    Clinton got 48% of the vote
    And various other parties got the last 2%

    Now, if we contrast that with the 2004 election, in which there was no spoiler, you have George Bush Jr. vs John Kerry and we are talking 62 Million votes to 59 million votes, making him the first President to win a majority of the ballots cast in the general election since his father in 1988.

    This is why Americans who have a knowledge of election history, pay attention to spoilers.  If Ron Paul were to run as a Libertarian, he would most likely have the same effect as Ross Perot did in the 1990’s.  Notice that if Ross Perot had not run, and all his votes had gone to the other conservative in the race, Bill Clinton would have lost both times.  Yes, even against Bob Dole who, for some unknown reason, couldn’t call himself I or me, he always referred to himself in the 3rd person, which got very annoying, if you ask me.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @dezrtfish:

    I think you should look at all the canidates and chose the one you think will do the best job.  If everyone did that I think we just might get what we ask for insted of whoever is least objectionable.

    If the choice is McCain or Hillary then the obvious choice for the one that will do the least damage to the country, is Hillary.

    If the choice is McCain or Obama then the obvious choice for the one that will do the least damage to the country is Obama.

    If it’s McCain vs anyone, the obvious choice is anyone.  Sorry, but McCain is a Blue Falcon.  He cannot be trusted.  He should not be trusted.  We thank him whole heartedly for his service, but POW experience is not something we hope our President will ever need to draw on. (If the President is ever made a POW, I think we’re in a really bad position.)

    Other then that, what does he bring to the party?  Kinda a carbon copy of Hillary or Obama but with a red name tag.  So why vote for the impostor Hillary or the impostor Obama when I can vote for the real thing?


  • Well then I’ll say, “When has one vote ever decided a presidential election? Your one vote for the lesser of two evils won’t matter either. There is NO SUCH THING as a wasted vote.”

    But it has in 1948, 1960, 2000 and 2004  just a few less weirdos running on fringe parties and the votes could have made the difference including Communist, Socialist, Green, Libertarian, Independent, etc…

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Probably 2000 is the biggest instance of when a few votes could have changed the result of the General Election. (Though, I think the better of the two men running got the nomination.)

    2004 was not that close.  Bush had 3 million + on Kerry.


  • 1960 was very close it was a matter of one state.  Also your looking at total votes, while im looking at total votes by state which assign the Electoral votes. If a much smaller margin voted the other way the state would go the other way and the other guy would win.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I don’t have that much patience. :P


  • I am registered as in the GOP and I typically vote Republican ( i have voted Libertarian twice ), but I do not trust McCain at all.

    I will not vote for McCain IF he is nominated.

    Libertarian !

  • '19 Moderator

    Well, first off I think Blue Falcon is extreme.

    Second I guess as long as you dont mind 50% or 60% Income tax along with any other taxes they can think of go ahead and vote Democrat.  At least then you can have the government take care of you.  I for one would like to spend my money instead of having the Government do it for me.  Since I’ll most likely be voting from Iraq, if you vote for Obama, I can come home early, and get ready to defend my house from the “people” we are fighting on the other side of the world.  But it will be worth it, I’ll only have to do the bare minimum for work, because I won’t mater how hard you work every body gets the same, because that’s what’s fair.

    Oh hell nevermind, I’m going to go get a cup of starbucks bold, I won’t be able to afford one soon…


  • thats why not to vote McCain is because of the BF. he dosn’t stand by conservative values. his only clame to fame is the war. yes he has voted on his values, but his values are not conservative. he is for amnasty for illegals, he is a pro globel warming tax man (1.2 Trillion a year is the proposed tax for this that he stands by), he dosn’t understand the economy (tax cuts bad, his change on it came after he came under fire for that stance… oo a flip).
    he is a one trick pony, that trick may be a good one, but with out the support of the other things the pony is going to have no where to land after it’s trick.


  • @balungaloaf:

    someone sounds like a big baby. like rush. if its not my guy i’ll cry and try to make our whole party lose… real mature.  take a loss like an adult.

    OMG…… I agree w/Bloaf again on something.

    People who say that McCain isn’t conservative enough or Celery (I like this Imp L) isn’t liberal enough are too far right or left. It isn’t surprising that these people can’t find a candidate to support after the sane among us weed out the nut jobs in the primaries.

    We need leaders that can build consensus and work with the other party and find middle ground and solutions to our shared problems. The R party & D party both have some good ideas and concepts. Neither party has all the answers.

    The loony left, which supports a welfare state and the radical right which wants to outlaw abortion and chase illegals from house to house need to be smacked in the face with some realities and understand that in a democracy we need to be able to reach middle ground to find answers that are digestible by the majority of us. And the extremist from both parties who live amongst us (read talking heads, religious nutz, filthy rich elites, newspaper editors et al.) should understand that most sane Americans don’t believe in or support their loony and radical positions.

    If individuals who support both far left & right positions don’t want to play politics with the majority of americans after we weed out THEIR candidates than I say fine….good ridance to you all. The country will be in a better place once you are all gone.


  • Eh…your vote doesn’t matter anyway in the Pres. election.

    Unless you are on the electoral college.


  • @Jermofoot:

    Eh…your vote doesn’t matter anyway in the Pres. election.
    Unless you are on the electoral college.

    Come-on? You are far too cynical.


  • @JWW:

    @Jermofoot:

    Eh…your vote doesn’t matter anyway in the Pres. election.
    Unless you are on the electoral college.

    Come-on? You are far too cynical.

    Ok, so I made it more extreme than it seems, but IMO the electoral college is obsolete.  Direct vote, please.  Or modification of the electoral college so that it’s not winner take all.


  • something politically we agree on  :-D


  • @Jermofoot:

    Ok, so I made it more extreme than it seems, but IMO the electoral college is obsolete.  Direct vote, please.  Or modification of the electoral college so that it’s not winner take all.

    Yeah, then the young lads w/guns in jesus country (IOWA, Nebraska etc…) revolt because they soon realize that their votes don’t matter as they observe the massive large city pop’s drown out their voice in the political system….

    A few massive states (NY, CA, FL, TX etc…) shouldn’t be able to steam roll our republic’s political system year in year out.

    And each state has a direct vote.

    Lastly, there have been few instances where the electoral college hasn’t performed as it was intended.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Wrong, the ONLY candidates that matter are strong conservatives.  I don’t want a wannabe liberal.  If I’m going to vote for a liberal, I’ll vote for the Democrat.  I don’t go for impostors.

    Romney isn’t conservative enough for me, but he’s the best one running who has a chance at winning.

    McCain, well, look at who he worked with in the past.

    McCain Fiengold
    McCain Kennedy
    McCain Lieberman

    The Dream Act

    The guy touts the liberal platform.  That’s why he’s the media darling.  He’s NOT a conservative, not in the real sense of who conservatives have been in the past 30 years.  He is a conservative if you look back to the 1950’s and 1960’s when Conservatives were the Rich White Establishment.

    If you want the Rich White Establishment, then you probably like John McCain.


  • @Cmdr:

    Wrong, the ONLY candidates that matter are strong conservatives.

    ummm ok :?

    @Cmdr:

    If I’m going to vote for a liberal, I’ll vote for the Democrat. Romney isn’t conservative enough for me,

    I guess you should sign up at moveon.org now!
    Good luck finding someone conservative enough for you that the majority of amercians can stomach supporting.

    @Cmdr:

    The guy touts the liberal platform.

    Against abortion, pro-military, against same sex marriage, pro cutting gov’t largess, pro NRA. Yeah your right! Those are the foundations of the democrat’s platform. I think I’m a liberal too!

    @Cmdr:

    If you want the Rich White Establishment, then you probably like John McCain.

    I see your point, Mitt, John Kerry, Teddy Kennedy, they aren’t rich, white or part of any establishment!  :lol:

    As I have already stated……

    The loony left, which supports a welfare state and the radical right which wants to outlaw abortion and chase illegals from house to house need to be smacked in the face with some realities and understand that in a democracy we need to be able to reach middle ground to find answers that are digestible by the majority of us. And the extremist from both parties who live amongst us (read talking heads, religious nutz, filthy rich elites, newspaper editors et al.) should understand that most sane Americans don’t believe in or support their loony and radical positions.

    If individuals who support both far left & right positions don’t want to play politics with the majority of americans after we weed out THEIR candidates than I say fine….good riddance to you all. The country will be in a better place once you are all gone.


  • @JWW:

    @Jermofoot:

    Eh…your vote doesn’t matter anyway in the Pres. election.
    Unless you are on the electoral college.

    Come-on? You are far too cynical.

    The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. -Stalin (its sorta true :cry:)


  • I thought this thread was about Rue Paul the Tranny…


  • if a republican had to win it should be Ron Paul. but he won’t get the nomination. how many states has he won? lol republicans just don’t for pipe-lovin anarchists. psst Ron pass the weed. I got the money if you got the goods lol

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