Hope after Africa or How I survived being kicked out the Dark Continent

  • 2007 AAR League

    I’m wondering, is it possible to survive as Germany if you get knocked out of Africa early? It doesn’t seem like things get any better for the Germans once you get kicked. Once your income starts falling and you’re only putting out 10 inf a round and not able to keep the pressure on the Russians, then the other Allies start a’knocking. And then those damn raids on SEU begin…grumblegrumblegrumble  :oops: 😐

    So, how long does Germany need to stay in Africa in order to get enough troops on the ground to overwhelm the east? And it is possible to survive after getting sent on the slow boat to Germany? Got any tips on how to survive?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Until Germany owns Caucasus, I think.

    Assuming the standard KGF technique of America going through Africa and hitting Germany’s underbelly and England going north to work with the Russians along Germany’s northern and eastern flanks.


  • Yes it is.

    If uk can counter egypt round 1 and us is doing the med strat, it dosent make sense to contest afrika as germany. Just hold on to egypt so u can get the japs into the med. that will protect SEU for some time. The only hope for germany to get some real icp out of afrika is to put 2 units of the bid in afrika and hope that uk cant counter. 5 units left in egypt round 1 and the uk cant counter, but 4 units it is still posible.

    If the US go north ore are going after japan the case is another and afrika may be posible to take for germany. But rember that moskva isent in afrika.

    30 icp isent much, u shout have like 38 to 45 the first 5 ore 6 rounds. u need to pressuer russia and stack either in ukraine ore kareila round 1 ore 2. Then u can trade one step closer to moskva.

    on a side note west russia is a much better place to stack than caucasus. U then have control over arc and kar.


  • :roll:
    The secret for Germanys survival is two-fold.
    First; what you build, (including the bid buy).
    second; the amount of pressure that can be brought to bear on the Russians.
      I typically buy only cheap ground units for the first couple of turns. Mostly Inf, but a few artillery and a tank or two, for couter attacks is essential.
    Egypt on G1 is critical. I’ve tried just about everything you can think of, but none are as important as taking Egypt with as much as you can get in there, so all my bid goes against it. I try to have at least 3 armor and 3 inf survive the assault. I leave my atlantic sub where it is and put my 3 or 4 fighters with my inf and art in Tunisia to delay the Britts from going into Africa on UK1. The sub also prevents an invasion of western Europe on UK1, so I can grab the inf in W.E. with the baltic transport to Karilia, and run the armor there over to Eastern Europe for G2 counter-attacks against Russian aggression on R2.
    The delaying tactics with subs are sound moves, and should be considered in the mid to late game as well. I have played several games where I build an IC in western Europe on G2. From there I can launch subs to prevent the UK from loading troops in either the baltic, English channel, western Med. or the sea zone west of Western Europe! This has greatly frustrated several very good players to no end, causing them to make mistakes that I capitalized on! So that even when I was pushed back into Europe, I was able to hold onto the big income territories while I waited for Japan to smash into Russia.
    Of course, a lot of what you can do will depend on the die results, but if Germany can be patient, and build up strong defenses, (large inf stacks) early, then it just might hold on long enough to see Russia fall. I also think that Germany should be on the look out for any opportunity to strike a serious blow to any allied units that get to far without support, but never leave yourself open to a risky allied attack on Berlin.
    Well, that is enough for now, Good luck, and Happy gaming.  😄


  • I’m going to give a half-serious response : up the bid. If you can’t manage to survive as Germany, you just need to keep upping the bid so that

    1. You kick Germany’s butt with the Allies and rack up wins, until
    2. You meet someone with a good strategy then copy his so you can win with Germany

    A more serious response is that you can’t expect to hold Africa with Germany if the Allies do not wish it.

  • 2007 AAR League

    So Bean, you’re saying start playing as the Allies until I come across someone who is a master with the Germans in Africa? Interesting. That’ll test me for sure.


  • @General_D.Fox:

    So Bean, you’re saying start playing as the Allies until I come across someone who is a master with the Germans in Africa? Interesting. That’ll test me for sure.

    It’s a good way to learn… watch others do it well and see how they stop your moves.

    It works in a lot of competition.  I’ll use AMreican football as an example.  If someone is able to defend your offensive running game, then you can learn how you can implement their defense with your own defense to improve your defense.

    In Revised, Germany is the most difficult country to play.  They usually get triple teamed and get little or no help from their partner.  Tough duty.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Africa is key.  Period.

    If you lose Africa as the allies, you’ll probably lose the game.  If you lose Africa as the Axis, you’ll probably lose the game.

    I say probably because I have won with Germany after losing Africa before.  Of course, I went almost 100% tanks and beat the Russian’s into submission before the Allies could get reinforcements going.  It took about 5 rounds and it was 100% tanks with Germany and 100% with Japan.  Very expensive and it relied on a lot of luck.


  • I like conquer the Suez Channel for Axis and send the italian BB and tra to the Indian ocean when the things get ugly. You can conquer Mad and South Africa, keeping in the 40 ipcs some turns. A time I even conquer NZel with the italian navy  😮

    Save that, you cannot do nothing against obsessive american landings at Algeria save stacking japaneses at Persia

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Always fun to have the Germans get out of the med with two transports and a battleship, get them India so Japan can hold it for them and then take Australia, New Zealand and Brazil with Germany. 😃


  • @General_D.Fox:

    I’m wondering, is it possible to survive as Germany if you get knocked out of Africa early?

    Of course.

    It doesn’t seem like things get any better for the Germans once you get kicked.

    Of course things are not going to get “better” when the Allies are ganging up on Germany.  However, if you can attain parity of position or at least minimize your losses while Japan increases its holdings, you’re in good shape.  You may bow to my wisdom now.

    Once your income starts falling and you’re only putting out 10 inf a round and not able to keep the pressure on the Russians, then the other Allies start a’knocking. And then those damn raids on SEU begin…grumblegrumblegrumble  :oops: 😐

    Not a problem.  SEU requires two transport loads from either UK or US, and anything entering there is vulnerable to attack from both the Med navy and the German air force.  The Allies should pay for SEu with LOTS of Allied blood.

    So, how long does Germany need to stay in Africa in order to get enough troops on the ground to overwhelm the east? And it is possible to survive after getting sent on the slow boat to Germany? Got any tips on how to survive?

    (slap) It isn’t about Germany in Africa, it’s about the overall position.  Keep that in mind.  If your car is not working, you don’t look at your fuel indicator if your car is on fire.  Same thing; don’t think about specific indicators, think about the overall position.

    Mmkay, I don’t have a lot of time.

    G1 and J1 should make no commitments to attack plan.  That generally means two things.

    1.  Use your bid well.

    Africa:  You do this because you want Anglo-Egypt for sure with Germany early, and you want two tanks to survive past the UK1 turn, so you can blitz through Africa on G2.  If you do NOT put more units in Africa / buy a Med transport, UK will probably take back Anglo-Egypt.

    Southeast Asia:  You do this so you can try to whack out India on J1 or J2 and build an early industrial complex there that will let you pressure Caucasus, and later, move newly produced units to Africa with one transport.  Indian IC rocks hardcore.

    Baltic transport:  This is for non-delayed tech games.  Roll for some long range aircraft, and whack London.

    Make non-committal moves G1 and J1.  That is, if the Russian player did something like buying 8 infantry, do not go ahead and buy 8 tanks on G1.  That commits Germany to a tank dash strategy, which can easily fail if the Allies set up defensively.  Similarly, don’t buy things like two industrial complexes with Japan on J1 or any such thing (maybe one max industrial complex if Japan started with an extra IPC).  Use your G1 purchases for infantry and tanks, and possibly a carrier or a transport depending on your strategy; use your J1 purchases for transports and a tank (or maybe an IC).  After the US1, you can tell which way the Allies are going to go.

    If they start hitting the Atlantic, start buying infantry with Germany and pick up a fighter or two a turn so you can set up the W. Europe / E. Europe territory fighter routes, while you build more transports in Asia and start ramming Japanese infantry down every underdefended territory.  Japan should go wild while Germany gradually gets contained; all the German fighters delay Allied shipping, and the blocks of German infantry make it take a long while for the Allies to break in.  Conserve your German tanks, do not let them die.  Japan should grab control of Novosibirsk and points east, and threaten Russia big-time.

    If they start hitting the Pacific, buy fighters with Japan and pull back west to Asia early, planning to pull your Jap air back east for when the US fleet gets big.  Concentrate on maintaining control of Africa with Germany early while producing infantry for the big push on Russia.  The Allies will make early progress in the Pacific where it doesn’t matter, and at some point, they’ll start getting to range of the 4 IPC islands, so you switch to subs, use your existing forces in Asia to maintain your territory, and use your massive fleet and air to whack out the US navy.  Meanwhile, Germany should be taking control of Caucasus with its big IPC budget from control of Africa (or if the Allies used UK to attack Africa, the Japs shouldn’t be in trouble for a while, because it takes a while for US to build sufficient fleet and more time to move deep into Jap waters).

    That’s in general, of course.  In some games, your opponent will do dumb stuff like attacking lots of territories on R1 and buying 2 fighters.  When that happens, buy 8 tanks with Germany and more tanks with Japan and cram them right down Russia’s throat.  If you rush hard and fast, you don’t need Africa at all; you just beat up Russia, and that’s pretty much game.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Love how you just glaze over what to do if the allies do a Pacific plan.

    “Eventually they will get in range of your 4 IPC islands.”

    Yea, Eventually is Round 3.  Be ready for it.  If you are not ready, you WILL lose those islands and lose them fast.  Remember, all it takes is one ship to stop your might Japanese fleet from crushing the American fleet and England has a lot of sacrificial ships around to do the job.

    You can quickly find yourself in a bad position with America putting up a factory in E. Indies and pummeling SE Asia and you not being able to stop them because they are A) on the defensive and B) building ships right in SZ 37. (Same for Borneo, but at least then you can build ships in SZ 60.)


  • how is afrika the key.? there are no V areas it is worth 12 icp, U can get them else were.
    In most of my games as axis the higeste icp i get from afrika is 4. And i win most of my games. If i can get afrika easy il take it but else i just prety much ignore it. i hold egypt as long as i can, turn 3 ore 4 is most commen.

    The key area is West russia for in my strat. If axis get west russia it is realy hard for the allies to get some help to russia. The first couple of rounds i try to put as much pressuar on west russia as i can. If russia leaves it the germans have and easy way to defent against UK and US, If russia stack it japan will have less trouble in there push for moskva. If germany goes after afrika it take pressuer of russia, when u take the german pressuer of russia, japan will have a harder time and will get less icp.

    This is how i play the axis, and the trade of in this strat is that i probely wont get much icp from afrika. But going after afrika is just 1 axis strat. There are alot others that can work. I dont get it why all is so hang up about 12 icp.

    Crazy ivan have some good points of how u get a good german start in afrika, but it will cost on some other fronts. Maybe the IC in WE is over the top. But il like to now how u get 6 units egypt round 1. I assume u have 2 bid units and 4 from the starting units, so if Uk dosent get a hit ore if u take airplanes as casuiltes?. also using the sub to block the uk from landing will likly cost u a fighter.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Africa is the key because it’s England’s paycheck and if Germany can get it, then they can build +4 infantry a round, making trading a lot easier financially.

  • 2007 AAR League

    @newpaintbrush:

    @General_D.Fox:

    I’m wondering, is it possible to survive as Germany if you get knocked out of Africa early?

    Of course.

    It doesn’t seem like things get any better for the Germans once you get kicked.

    Of course things are not going to get “better” when the Allies are ganging up on Germany.  However, if you can attain parity of position or at least minimize your losses while Japan increases its holdings, you’re in good shape.  You may bow to my wisdom now.

    Once your income starts falling and you’re only putting out 10 inf a round and not able to keep the pressure on the Russians, then the other Allies start a’knocking. And then those damn raids on SEU begin…grumblegrumblegrumble  :oops: 😐

    Not a problem.  SEU requires two transport loads from either UK or US, and anything entering there is vulnerable to attack from both the Med navy and the German air force.  The Allies should pay for SEu with LOTS of Allied blood.

    So, how long does Germany need to stay in Africa in order to get enough troops on the ground to overwhelm the east? And it is possible to survive after getting sent on the slow boat to Germany? Got any tips on how to survive?

    (slap) It isn’t about Germany in Africa, it’s about the overall position.  Keep that in mind.  If your car is not working, you don’t look at your fuel indicator if your car is on fire.  Same thing; don’t think about specific indicators, think about the overall position.

    Mmkay, I don’t have a lot of time.

    G1 and J1 should make no commitments to attack plan.  That generally means two things.

    1.  Use your bid well.

    Africa:  You do this because you want Anglo-Egypt for sure with Germany early, and you want two tanks to survive past the UK1 turn, so you can blitz through Africa on G2.  If you do NOT put more units in Africa / buy a Med transport, UK will probably take back Anglo-Egypt.

    Southeast Asia:  You do this so you can try to whack out India on J1 or J2 and build an early industrial complex there that will let you pressure Caucasus, and later, move newly produced units to Africa with one transport.  Indian IC rocks hardcore.

    Baltic transport:  This is for non-delayed tech games.  Roll for some long range aircraft, and whack London.

    Make non-committal moves G1 and J1.  That is, if the Russian player did something like buying 8 infantry, do not go ahead and buy 8 tanks on G1.  That commits Germany to a tank dash strategy, which can easily fail if the Allies set up defensively.  Similarly, don’t buy things like two industrial complexes with Japan on J1 or any such thing (maybe one max industrial complex if Japan started with an extra IPC).  Use your G1 purchases for infantry and tanks, and possibly a carrier or a transport depending on your strategy; use your J1 purchases for transports and a tank (or maybe an IC).  After the US1, you can tell which way the Allies are going to go.

    If they start hitting the Atlantic, start buying infantry with Germany and pick up a fighter or two a turn so you can set up the W. Europe / E. Europe territory fighter routes, while you build more transports in Asia and start ramming Japanese infantry down every underdefended territory.  Japan should go wild while Germany gradually gets contained; all the German fighters delay Allied shipping, and the blocks of German infantry make it take a long while for the Allies to break in.  Conserve your German tanks, do not let them die.  Japan should grab control of Novosibirsk and points east, and threaten Russia big-time.

    If they start hitting the Pacific, buy fighters with Japan and pull back west to Asia early, planning to pull your Jap air back east for when the US fleet gets big.  Concentrate on maintaining control of Africa with Germany early while producing infantry for the big push on Russia.  The Allies will make early progress in the Pacific where it doesn’t matter, and at some point, they’ll start getting to range of the 4 IPC islands, so you switch to subs, use your existing forces in Asia to maintain your territory, and use your massive fleet and air to whack out the US navy.  Meanwhile, Germany should be taking control of Caucasus with its big IPC budget from control of Africa (or if the Allies used UK to attack Africa, the Japs shouldn’t be in trouble for a while, because it takes a while for US to build sufficient fleet and more time to move deep into Jap waters).

    That’s in general, of course.  In some games, your opponent will do dumb stuff like attacking lots of territories on R1 and buying 2 fighters.  When that happens, buy 8 tanks with Germany and more tanks with Japan and cram them right down Russia’s throat.  If you rush hard and fast, you don’t need Africa at all; you just beat up Russia, and that’s pretty much game.

    NPB, you seem to be an expert on the Japan expansion. How do I get into Novo quick and reinforce it well enough not to get wacked on Russia’s next turn? Because my last couple games, my opponent started stacking Novo with inf, making it difficult to get into there or even close to it w/o getting knocked back to the stone age.

    Also, does anyone know where I can find a game with a good Axis African strat? Any links anyone has would be great, thanks.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    That just means you’re playing someone who knows how to play Russia.  Russia should stack Novosibirsk because it stops Japan from getting the high paying Russian lands for long.

    Honestly, I prefer to send England to Novosibirsk and leave Russia going after Europe.


  • Having played two games now as Allies vs your Axis, I would offer this advice:

    The British and Americans have a generally fixed income they can come at you with. Every dollar they spend in Africa is a dollar they did not spend in Europe. You do not need to take over all of Africa to do well, but you should try your best to force the allies to spend money there. Germany can counterattack Libya and Egypt quite well so long as the Med fleet is alive, with a Bombard and air support. This means you can defend said territories with the mere threat of retaliation. At the very least you can pick up 3 dollars a turn there while spending 6, yet forcing the allies to spend more and using their transports when they don’t yet have enough.

    Next, Norway. If you aren’t going to go heavy with Africa, you might as well try to keep Norway. The +3 to Germans and -3 to whoever gets Norway (typically the British) will mostly offset the money you couldn’t get from Africa. The Germans do not need to twiddle their thumbs next to Russia yet, as the Japanese won’t even be in range of Moscow for a few turns.

    Finally, Russians. If you are only playing light in Africa, you will only need a plane or two every once in a while to make an opportunistic attack. If you’ve dealt with Norway by making your counterattack so strong Britian is only trading with you and too weak to land a full load, then you have a lot of planes that need work. Unless you are dead serious about using your planes to attack allied ships, then don’t leave them posturing near the shores: Put them to work killing Russians! Every spare man that isn’t needed to hold the fort is a man that should be used to bleed the Russian stacks trading territory. The Germans pulling Norway and a couple bucks from Africa can pull a solid 40IPC+ income, and can afford to trade 4-5 Inf for 5 Russians. This leaves far fewer men in the way of the Japanese.

    Last, Japan. There are 3 routes to Russia, and while you want to control them all, you must not try to use all 3 as transport routes! If you do, all 3 are vulnerable to being stalled in a Russian armor stack that can go in any direction. Use enough men along two routes to be sure you are getting their income, but choose one route to go heavy so that you are strong enough to stave off a Russian counter. Again, you have air support, trade your men for Russians at every opportunity. 1 Inf 1 Fig vs 1 Inf or 2 Inf 1 Fig vs 2 Inf should be done every time. You aren’t always caring about taking the territory, a 1 IPC land isn’t worth losing 2 Inf for. Trading Inf equal with Russians however is to your advantage, you plan to be attacking with Inf at 1, and they want to Defend with them at 2. The more you trade, the easier your job will get. Even if the Inf isn’t a Russian, so long as a Russian will be needed to take that territory back, then it’s still good.

    Gaining a larger income is a more difficult way to win for the Axis: The easier way is to kill Russians!

  • 2007 AAR League

    So, how long does Germany need to stay in Africa in order to get enough troops on the ground to overwhelm the east? And it is possible to survive after getting sent on the slow boat to Germany? Got any tips on how to survive?

    When germany get´s “kicked” out, you replace the german troops with Japanese, = Problem solved.

    Japan will then by J5-6 have 60+ ipc.

    For some reference check my old games as axis (preferably where i win) or my game in tournament vs Dragoon blade.  (allthought there germany do hold africa…)

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    BTW, I have found, through experience, that the axis will win if they can get and maintain about 90 IPC a round income.  That’s cash they are getting, not territories they own after Russia’s turn, btw.

    I have also found that the allies will win if they can get and maintain about 110 IPC a round income.  That’s cash they are getting, not territories they own after Japan’s turn, btw.

    It’s not a hard and fast rule, just a guideline.  But it shows how 12 IPC in Africa can make a real difference, I think.

  • 2007 AAR League

    @EskimoJack:

    Having played two games now as Allies vs your Axis, I would offer this advice:

    The British and Americans have a generally fixed income they can come at you with. Every dollar they spend in Africa is a dollar they did not spend in Europe. You do not need to take over all of Africa to do well, but you should try your best to force the allies to spend money there. Germany can counterattack Libya and Egypt quite well so long as the Med fleet is alive, with a Bombard and air support. This means you can defend said territories with the mere threat of retaliation. At the very least you can pick up 3 dollars a turn there while spending 6, yet forcing the allies to spend more and using their transports when they don’t yet have enough.

    Next, Norway. If you aren’t going to go heavy with Africa, you might as well try to keep Norway. The +3 to Germans and -3 to whoever gets Norway (typically the British) will mostly offset the money you couldn’t get from Africa. The Germans do not need to twiddle their thumbs next to Russia yet, as the Japanese won’t even be in range of Moscow for a few turns.

    Finally, Russians. If you are only playing light in Africa, you will only need a plane or two every once in a while to make an opportunistic attack. If you’ve dealt with Norway by making your counterattack so strong Britian is only trading with you and too weak to land a full load, then you have a lot of planes that need work. Unless you are dead serious about using your planes to attack allied ships, then don’t leave them posturing near the shores: Put them to work killing Russians! Every spare man that isn’t needed to hold the fort is a man that should be used to bleed the Russian stacks trading territory. The Germans pulling Norway and a couple bucks from Africa can pull a solid 40IPC+ income, and can afford to trade 4-5 Inf for 5 Russians. This leaves far fewer men in the way of the Japanese.

    Last, Japan. There are 3 routes to Russia, and while you want to control them all, you must not try to use all 3 as transport routes! If you do, all 3 are vulnerable to being stalled in a Russian armor stack that can go in any direction. Use enough men along two routes to be sure you are getting their income, but choose one route to go heavy so that you are strong enough to stave off a Russian counter. Again, you have air support, trade your men for Russians at every opportunity. 1 Inf 1 Fig vs 1 Inf or 2 Inf 1 Fig vs 2 Inf should be done every time. You aren’t always caring about taking the territory, a 1 IPC land isn’t worth losing 2 Inf for. Trading Inf equal with Russians however is to your advantage, you plan to be attacking with Inf at 1, and they want to Defend with them at 2. The more you trade, the easier your job will get. Even if the Inf isn’t a Russian, so long as a Russian will be needed to take that territory back, then it’s still good.

    Gaining a larger income is a more difficult way to win for the Axis: The easier way is to kill Russians!

    This is what I get for playing a chess master!  😛 :lol: 😄 Thanks EJ.
    C-3PO: “We’re doomed!” /C-3PO


  • You can also try naval link strategies and forget about Africa. There are very few players who know what they’re doing vs a naval link, and even if they do know about it, Africa will be pretty empty of any troops since both Germany and the Allies aren’t doing much in there, leaving it open for Japan a few turns later.

    If you’re serious about Africa, the only way you can make it difficult for the Allies is to land there hard on G1. If you don’t land hard enough, it’s counterattacked and they follow you on turn 2, and you’re just not getting much out of it.


  • @Cmdr:

    Love how you just glaze over what to do if the allies do a Pacific plan.

    “Eventually they will get in range of your 4 IPC islands.”

    Yea, Eventually is Round 3.  Be ready for it.  If you are not ready, you WILL lose those islands and lose them fast.  Remember, all it takes is one ship to stop your might Japanese fleet from crushing the American fleet and England has a lot of sacrificial ships around to do the job.

    You can quickly find yourself in a bad position with America putting up a factory in E. Indies and pummeling SE Asia and you not being able to stop them because they are A) on the defensive and B) building ships right in SZ 37. (Same for Borneo, but at least then you can build ships in SZ 60.)

    Mm.  Glazed.

    However, I find it difficult to believe that the US is going to be doing anything on those islands Round 3.  It takes two rounds to reach the 4 IPC islands from Western US.  That means that the US has 1 battleship, 1 transport, and its turn 1 build.  At best you’re going to have 1 battleship 2 carriers 4 fighters  1 transport 1 sub.  Japan should have at least 2 battleships 2 carriers 5 transports 7 fighters 1 bomber at that point (assume Japan builds transports on J1 and switches to fighter/infantry builds or possibly bomber/infantry after seeing the US1 Pacific build, which it should).

    If Japan is sticking with a two-transports at Japan switching with two-transports at French Indochina transport plan, the entire Japanese fleet will be well within range to destroy the US should it venture as far west as Borneo or East Indies on US3.  The Japanese fleet just isn’t needed anywhere else; Japan can see the US coming a mile away, and Japan itself doesn’t need to be protected against invasion with navy (since the US fleet of 2 inf 4 fighter 1 bomber should be totally unable to crack Japan).


  • Comments -

    1.  Enskive’s got some good points.

    2.  You can’t get Novosibirsk easily with Japan.  Any Russian player worth his/her vodka will fight you until you TAKE it.  Early on, Japan should get at least 5 total transports, and the rest infantry.  Four transports move 8 infantry per turn; 4 to French Indochina (from where they march either to India or Sinkiang/China as the opportunity arises) and 4 to Burytia (or some to Manchuria if the Yakut attack is going well).  The fifth transport picks up Japanese infantry off the isolated islands moving them to mainland Asia, or to attack Australia and New Guinea and Hawaii as opportunity allows.  Japan can often use a sixth transport, especially if the Allies are going KGF.

    You don’t have to take Novosibirsk early.  When Japan takes Ssinkiang and Yakut, with infantry following up every turn from Burytia or China/French Indochina, Russia should not be able to afford to attack either Japanese stack, as weak as they are.  Russia can usually smack one or the other, or maybe even both, but anything that Russia sends TOWARDS Japan makes it EASIER for Japan to kill Russians faster - the Russians have both done the work of marching towards Japan, AND have even done the favor of attacking the Japanese infantry that’s relatively good on defense with Russian infantry that’s relatively weak on offense.  So you build infantry up at both locations for a couple turns and trade Kazakh, then things start to get interesting, especially if you’ve switched to tank builds somewhere in between.

    At that point, Germany will be pressured pretty hard by the Allies, but Japan will be able to take Novosibirsk one way or another - if Russia attacks from Novo, Russia will be too weak to defend; if Russia just stays there, Japan can cruise in and unite its infantry and tank stacks.  Of course, at that point Russia can see what’s going to happen, so most of Russia’s forces will pull back to Russia while UK and US stall Germany out.

    Either the Allies will be strong enough to defend Russia for a while, in which case you take India and put an industrial complex there, and Japan starts grabbing African territory; this task is often made easier because the Allies have to pull back a bit from Germany and Africa to defend Russia.  Or Japan pushes its stack into Kazakh and then partially into Caucasus allowing Germany to secure a foothold in Caucasus.

    Midgame tanks are good for Japan for a few reasons.  One, they let Japan blitz through Africa.  Two, Japanese tanks can force Russia to pull back to Moscow faster, especially if UK is mostly out of Europe.  (Because if there are Japanese tanks in Sinkiang, and German air in the vicinity, Germany can clear Kazakh, then Japan can blitz through Kazakh to hit Moscow along with Jap air for a moderately powerful attack)  Three, if Japan times its tank build well, the tanks join Japanese infantry at the front for added momentum on the attack.

    Remember to never overbuild tanks.  Tanks are useful, but so are masses and masses of infantry.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Actually, NPB, you’ll probably have 1 Transport, 1 Battleship, 2 Aircraft Carriers, 4 Fighters and a Destroyer (plus 2 infantry) in SZ 37.

    England will have a transport or a submarine or a destroyer or something in SZ 49 or SZ 48 to prevent Japan from attacking the fleet.  Meanwhile, America will have half a dozen submarines in SZ 45 (one of them in SZ 51 again to prevent a Japanese attack)

    Why?  Because I find a lot of Japanese players confronted with an Aggressive America do exactly what you say, and turtle up.  That means they’re fleet is up north, where it is easy to confine for a couple of rounds.


  • @Cmdr:

    Actually, NPB, you’ll probably have 1 Transport, 1 Battleship, 2 Aircraft Carriers, 4 Fighters and a Destroyer (plus 2 infantry) in SZ 37.

    England will have a transport or a submarine or a destroyer or something in SZ 49 or SZ 48 to prevent Japan from attacking the fleet.  Meanwhile, America will have half a dozen submarines in SZ 45 (one of them in SZ 51 again to prevent a Japanese attack)

    Why?  Because I find a lot of Japanese players confronted with an Aggressive America do exactly what you say, and turtle up.  That means they’re fleet is up north, where it is easy to confine for a couple of rounds.

    Ah yes, the destroyer.  And the US 1 build is 2 ACs 1 fighter.  That works.  Apologies; I haven’t KJF for a while.  For those without maps in front of them, SZ 37 is East Indies, SZ 49 and 48 are Phillipines and Borneo respectively, SZ 45 is Solomons, Sz 51 is Wake Island.

    What I usually see is something like:

    1.  UK India transport and fighter either retakes Anglo-Egypt (possibly with UK bomber aid), or if that not possible attacks Borneo.  UK destroyer attacks Jap Kwangtung transport (which I’m unhappy with as UK because I prefer better odds, but I think acceptable).  UK carrier moves to Borneo if the UK fighter survives, otherwise the UK carrier joins the UK destroyer.

    My turn with Japan is buy 3 transport 1 tank and attack Pearl with 1 sub 1 destroyer 4-5 fighters 1 bomber.  Note the sub only survives 2/3 of the time as the UK sub at Australia typically attacks.  Note that Japanese noncombat move typically results in two carriers one battleship (from East Indies) at Solomons.  The UK Australian transport can interfere with Jap fleet unification off Solomons, but I have a spare fighter that I can take from Pearl.  I also take China, usually leaving either 1 inf at French Indochina or 1 inf at Manchuria depending on Allied noncombat; if Allies left 6 inf at Burytia I will usually try to leave an inf at Manchuria to suck more Russian infantry in (Russia attack is followed by Japanese counter on J2 retaking Manchuria and taking Burytia as well).  Japanese battleship east of Japan stays there, either battleship support shot against Burytia (if Russia doesn’t have a lot), or simply acting as escort to Japanese transports, which can be threatened typically either by UK bomber in China, or US bomber in case the Japanese attack on Burytia does not succeed.

    On US1, the US cannot counterattack Solomons, and cannot attack Japan’s transports.  Assume US1 build 2 carriers 1 fighter move destroyer west for US Pacific fleet 1 battleship 1 bomber 4 fighter 1 destroyer 1 carrier 1 transport.

    On UK2, UK is looking at a Japanese fleet east of Japan and another at Solomons, with air at Solomons.  Remaining UK fleet is forced to run directly west or die.  Even if the UK fleet does run, Japan can still hunt them down with air.

    Jap2, the Japs can see the US coming.  Buy is 1 transport 1 fighter 5 infantry (J1 purchase 3 transport 1 tank leaves 1 IPC in bank; probable J1 income is 32 with China; so 33 IPC total in bank end of J1)  The Japs can probably kill the UK fleet no matter where the UK fleet ran to; there are friendly Japanese landing islands all over the place.  Japan can choose either to move 2 transports west of Japan and 2 transports to French Indochina (typical 4-transport Japan beginning, if spare Japanese transport send it west so it’s in position to unload East Indies next turn).  OR Japan can send one Solomon carrier to join Japan.  At worst, Japan should only have to deal with US forces of 4 fighter 1 bomber; that should not be a terrible problem even for the Japanese fleet east of Japan consisting of 1 battleship 1 loaded carrier 3 transports, and note that with that setup, Japan has sacrificed hardly anything at all in progress in Asia or anywhere else.

    Essentially, at this point Japan splits its fleet; one fleet is stationary east of Japan, or pulls west of Japan in the face of a strong Allied threat; one fleet cruises the South Pacific (generally moving west as it retreats from US forces).  The UK fleet is being hunted and should be dead soon.  This is for J2.  By J3, rogue Allied fleet should probably be dead, and the Japanese fleet is freed to unite.

    On US2, again, the US shouldn’t have any ready targets for its air.  So let us say that the UK drew the South Pacific fleet southwest out of position.  The US can send its fleet of 1 battleship 4 fighters 1 destroyer 1 carrier 1 transport directly west (if the US goes southwest, it risks being in range of both Japanese fleets, which is a bad idea).

    So let us say that US goes two spaces directly west.  The defensive punch of the Allies at that point is about 5 hits to the Japanese fleet.  The Japs can hit with 1 battleship 1 carrier 3 transport 6 fighter 1 bomber (this is assuming Japan lost a fighter at Pearl) which is weaker on attack, but Japan can afford to lose its cheap transports, and the US has to choose between fighters, carriers, and a loaded transport (if it sinks a carrier, Japan retreats and US fighters splash into water; if the loaded transport goes down, that’s the US invasion threat, and if fighters die, those are the stronger defenders).  Japan’s attack is not great, BUT Japan has more fodder and can run whenever it wants, right back to the sea east of Japan where it unites with the J2 fleet build.

    Probably then US will not go two spaces directly west; it will go to Hawaii.  But Hawaii isn’t in range of any of Japan’s 4 IPC islands, so there is no immediate threat, and Japan has already averted US3 Borneo / East Indies.

    It can be a little more inconvenient than above; that UK fleet can be surprisingly resilient if UK fighters flew to Moscow on UK1; those fighters landing on the UK carrier on UK2 probably at India make things difficult for Japan.  But such moves come at the expense of UK attacks on Germany, and the UK fleet is out of position to help the US fleet.

    2.  (less common) UK sub at Australia and UK India fighter attack Japanese sub at Solomons; UK fighter lands on US carrier at Pearl Harbor.  In this case, Japan can do Pearl strong (sends navy) and retreat from the US navy and hunt UK navy on J2.  Or Japan can use the same old plan, just with the possibillity of another fighter or so lost because of the UK fighter at Pearl.

    The general game plan for Japan is to use its transports to empty the islands as usual.  J1, Japan builds 3 transports to start dumping infantry from the isolated Japanese islands into Asia.  J2, Japan hunts UK fleet survivors and dumps 8 infantry into Asia and starts building fighters to defend the Pacific AND attack Asia they can’t really do both because of range limitations, but they can switch back and forth to some degree.  J3 depends on the US moves to that point, but it is quite possible that Japan is pressured to some degree, and will start finding its extra transports to be of little use (US is too close for Japanese transports to wander into the South Pacific).  Around that point - which may come J3 or possibly J4 or 5+ depending on whether the Allies are going all out against Japan - around that point, Japan switches to buying subs and fighters, uses its air in Asia, uses its subs and existing navy to fend off US advances combined with the threat of Japanese air, and uses the spare Japanese transports as fodder.  At that point, though, either Germany should be doing well in Africa and on the European front, or Japan should have an income of 35ish IPCs, allowing regular 6 infantry 1 sub 1 fighter builds.

    US can just power through all the Japanese fleet eventually, but it should take a pretty fair amount of time.  If US diverts resources to deal with Africa, it takes longer for the US fleet to threaten in the Pacific, which means more time for Japan’s transports to move free infantry off the Japanese islands into Asia, and more time for Japan to expand in Asia as well.

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