Sergeant's rules (part 2)

  • Hi all, boyz (and girlz)!  8-)

    Here’s the second part of my rules, that i call Sergeant’s Rules, because my nickname means “Sergeant in the snow”….  :lol:

    Today we talk about…

    Training units:
    Every Nation can now upgrade their Artillery or Infantry units by “training”. In every round of play, it can be trained only one unit per territory, and this territory must have a minimum IPC value of 1. A trained infantry becomes an artillery, and an artillery becomes a tank: when trained, simply replace that unit with the correspondant “upgraded” unit. This rule represents the progressive “mechanization” of an army during WW2. In my mind, i think that an artillery piece on the board doesn’t represent an “artillery armee” (this can be unhistorical), but it’s rather an “elite” unit, as German Panzergrenadiers, Soviet Guards, US Rangers, UK Desert Rats, Japanese Sendai and so on. Training costs 1 IPC per unit, that must be payed during Phase 2 - Purchasing units. An unit “in training” can’t participate in combat neither non-combat phase: simply it’s just an “unactive unit” for this turn. To remind this, it could be useful to place that unit on its side. At the end of the round, during Phase 6 - Mobilize new units, the trained unit is finally replaced with the correspondant upgraded unit.

    Please excuse me if my english isn’t good, but… What do you think about this rule?  😄

    Stay tuned, nextly i will post more Sergeant’s Rules…!  :mrgreen:

  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Kinda neat.  I’d like to extend this to jets as well and super submarines, etc.  First you get the technology, then you spend money to upgrade the old ships with the new technologies and training.  (Can use control markers under untrained/trained units.)

  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    yea keep posting this stuff. i like

  • are you still allowed to build tanks outright?

  • To tekkyy… I am not sure to understand your question, it’s my fault because of my bad english… Every Nation can buy tanks as usual, my rule doesn’t mean any “change” in normal rules. It’s simply an addition. You can buy tanks for your IC and upgrade your artilleries in the front line, with the only limit that only one unit per territory can be upgraded every round.

    If your question is about if an infantry can be upgraded directly to a tank, my answer is NO. Training a unit (reinforcing it with vehicles, cannons, heavy weapons), requires much time, so an infantry can be upgraded only one “step” per round.

  • No your English is fine.
    I am justing checking the details.

    The current rule makes training infantry into artillery/tank the same cost as building artillery/tank from start.
    Infantry = 3.
    +1 to artillery = 4.
    +1 IPC to tank = 5.

    To be interesting and maybe it should be different.

    Some ideas…

    *Lower costs. Since its limited to one per territory I guess it could be free. If too easy then limit it to territories with 2+ IPC income.

    *Higher costs. You pay a premium for the convenience. You can train X units where X is territory income.

  • I personaly am not totally convinced about this rule. You can upgrade units on the frontline. Do units train on the front line or do they just try to survive? I guess it just comes down to how you preceive the units in A&A. How are units upgraded on islands? If you have infantry there you shouldn’t be able to spend 2IPC to get a tank. Tanks would have to be brought to the island.  You just magically train units to have tanks? You don’t train infantry infantry to have tanks you build them tanks with specific troops that drive them.

  • Hmm then maybe training should only be done at capital?

  • That would be a more reasonable choice I think and if it done in the capitol why not just buy a new piece? I just don’t see the pieces representing the same thing Sergente_nella_neve does. I don’t think the Artillery represents the Desert Rats. I think the Artillery represents a corps of infantry with heavy field artillery and a regular infantry piece represents infantry with far less heavy weapons and light artillery.

  • My “training rule” is a way to indicate the supplying of an unit with heavy weapons, armoured vehicles and, as i told, a global progressive mechanization of this army. All of this comprends, of course, the training of the troops to properly use this new equipments. This is, in my opinion, an historical fact, unless oil crisis…

    At the strategic scale of A&A, a round is a period of at least three months (it’s a convention universally accepted, i think), and a territory, even if in the front line, is a very big extension of terrain. Entires India or UK or Germany are single territories. Islands aren’t a single rock between the ocean, but an entire “island group”: look at the New Guinea, look at the Hawaiian islands. I think that in this big territories some unit is contacting the enemy lines, but some other units are in the rearguard: this unit can be upgraded or, to call them with the name of my rule, they can be trained. If you don’t like this name, think it to “supply an unit”. 😉

    And if Japan wants to reinforce its infantry in Wake Island to offer a more agreeable sacrifice to the Opening Fire of US Battleships, who am i to disapprove it? 😄

  • So what do you make of my ideas of lower or higher training costs?

  • Lower cost is, in my opinion, too powerful, even if limited to territories with a minimum income value of 2. If training would be free, i think that every unit on the board will be upgraded every round (ok, just one unit per territory, but in all the board)! I look at the sinkiang, or south-africa, or canada, or east indies, or finland-norway…

    Higher cost… Why “higher”? Even if i train X unit, i should pay X IPC: the cost is the same, the “speed” of training unit changes… This could be a good change for the training rule and you got a good idea, but still i don’t understand why you call it “higher”…

    Best regards,
    by Sergeant

  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    another idea:

    step loses:

    a tank hit makes it a artillery

    artillery hit makes it an infantry

    thats it.

    nothing else… this will conversely allow upgrades by paying cost differential for artillery to tanks and infantry to artillery right from the map.

    its very easy to employ

    Another idea:

    require one turn retrofit…they cant attack, or move one turn while they are upgraded with new equipment.

    this will mirror actual wartime activities.

  • Ah yeah, makes sense. You shouldn’t be able to fight and train at the same turn.

    Regarding why “higher cost”, I was thinking it should cost more to build artillery then train it to tank than building tank outright. Some wasted material and training time.

  • @Imperious:

    a tank hit makes it a artillery

    artillery hit makes it an infantry

    Interesting!!! Very interesting…

    I was toying with the idea that half of units destroyed (rounded down) can be brought back at half price -to represent force pools, replacements, and the fact units are not destroyed.

    This I think is more elegant… although might make clearing out Russia harder! But it certainly blunts an offensive.

  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    yea but Soviets only really buy men anyway just to survive, except for the first turn and/or second.

    for the Soviets you can be more historical…

    a soviet tank drops to infantry
    Soviet Artillery is gone

    This is representative of the ‘fodder’ concept of Soviet troops, they fold quite easily when punched, but they have alot of them.

    German stuff is built for quality so it lasts with more levels of step loses by comparison.

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