I still like the 5 inf, art, arm purchase. If all you do is attack W. Russia can you easily have 7 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 2 Armor in W. Russia, 7 Infantry, 2 Armor, 2 Fighters, AA Gun in Caucasus and 7 Infantry, AA Gun in Russia
I recently played a game where a three attack Russian turn consisting of Ukraine, W. Russia, and Eastern Europe actually wound up working well.
Granted the dice were in my favor, and I lost a lot of offensive pieces on Germany’s subsequent turn, but my attack and Germany’s counter wound up costing Germany more offensive pieces than he could really afford to lose. Combined with a KGF focus, it wound up doing much to help the Allies win that game.
If you want to play it more conservatively, then the OP has a solid R1 posted already. :-)
Do you know a player named Ranyn1te? Hehe, it’s one of his trademark openings.
High risk, very high reward!
I would be interested in seeing alternatives to this R1, but to evaluate them I would need specific unit counts and things. One reason for my choice of this move is to protect Russia’s offensive pieces. I also viewed the videos once, and he made the point very clearly that Russia could not afford to lose his heavy pieces. This is why I have all Russias tanks stacked with so much (comparatively) infantry. In another variation, I used to fly Russia’s fighters back to Russia, but that was before I started considering something other than 8 inf as Russia’s first buy. I believe I noted this play used in another forum game here so I am not thinking I have “discovered” anything. I am still working on the results table and hope to get those numbers here soon. Thanks. - dinosaur
Alternative 1:
3 Infantry from Karelia to W. Russia
3 Infantry, Armor from Archangelsk to W. Russia
3 Infantry, Artillery, Armor from Russia to W. Russia
Fighter from Karelia to Ukraine
Armor, Fighter from Russia to Ukraine
3 Infantry, Artillery, Armor from Caucasus to Ukraine
Alternative 2:
3 Infantry from Karelia to W. Russia
3 Infantry, Armor from Archangelsk to W. Russia
3 Infantry, Artillery from Russia to W. Russia
Fighter from Karelia to Ukraine
2 Armor, Fighter from Russia to Ukraine
3 Infantry, Artillery, Armor from Caucasus to Ukraine
(*Only difference is more armor goes to Ukraine, less to W. Russia)
Alternative 3:
3 Infantry, Fighter from Karelia to W. Russia
3 Infantry, Armor from Archangelsk to W. Russia
3 Infantry, Artillery, 2 Armor, Fighter from Russia to W. Russia
*Stack Caucasus against German attack with NCM and Mobilization of New Forces, landing fighters there as well.
Alternative 4:
3 Infantry, Fighter from Karelia to Norway
Armor from Archangelsk to Norway
3 Infantry from Archangelsk to W. Russia
3 Infantry, Artillery, Armor, Fighter from Russia to W. Russia
Artillery from Caucasus to W. Russia
Alternative 5:
3 Infantry, Fighter from Karelia to Belorussia
Fighter from Russia to Belorussia
3 Infantry, Armor from Archangelsk to W. Russia
3 Infantry, Artillery, 2 Armor from Russia to W. Russia
3 Infantry, Artillery, Armor from Caucasus to W. Russia
Alternative 6: (I call this the Hail Mary)
3 Infantry, Fighter from Karelia to E. Europe
Armor from Archangelsk to E. Europe
3 Infantry from Archangelsk to W. Russia
3 Infantry, Artillery, Armor from Russia to W. Russia
3 Infantry, Artillery, Armor from Caucasus to Ukraine
Armor, Fighter from Russia to Ukraine
Not saying I approve of any of those openings, nor that I disapprove of any of those openings, but they exist. As always, the dice can go well or poor for you in any of the above. Some are more devastating then others, but some are also much higher risk then others.
My R1 combat will be either all that can reach Ukr, sometimes minus one tank, and everything else to Wru.
Another option is all units to Wru. Cauc should only have few units to secure Cauc from G1. I would retreat Bury totally, or
place 6 inf + UK ftr in Bury. Sometimes I leave 1 inf behind, but it’s usually better to retreat if you can’t hold a TT.
Usually is a smart move to pull the AA gun from Russia to Wru.
R1 I usually buy 4 inf 3 art, 5-1-1. or 3 inf 3 tanks. The triple attack can be very risky, if it fails, this means that a good G player
will take Moscow rnd 4-5. If it succeds and G have some bad dice, then you probably win the whole game.
:roll:
I agree with Lucifer and others on the 3 attack strategy. I would only try it against new players, or if I am wanting to play a short game, win or lose. :-P
For me, I stick with a heavy attack on the Ukraine, (everything that can reach it) and West Russia. Land my planes in the Caucuses with the two Infantry from Kasakh SSR and place 3 of my 5 Infantry builds and my Artillary build there, with the other 2 Infantry and my tank in Russia. I abandon Karilia completely, It is a lost cause anyway, why sacrifice troops for nothing. Also in the East it is best to pull back for a turn or two until you get a good feel if you’ll need those troops on the German front or not.
You have to remember, this a a game, with playbility engineered in, not a historically balanced recreation.
All in all Dino, this a challenging game, like chess, it rarely ever plays the same, always keeps you thinking, and when well matched, can cause palms to sweat :?, dice to fly :-o, and memories for a lifetime :wink:
I hope we can get a match game someday.
Crazy Ivan :-D
Good opening proposed !
If Russia buys 3inf 3arm (3inf 1arm in Caucasus, 2arm in Moscow) they can deter better Germany from stationing a big force in Karelia. (from where they may deter UK/US landings for some time…)
I computed the “value” of attacking Belorussia and here are the results.
The chance of success is pretty high. If the allies don’t attack when they have less than 2 infantry and 2 fighters, except when the defenders have only 1 infantry defending (the allies attack if they have 1 infantry and 2 fighters or more), the allies win with no losses 15% of the time, losing only 1 infantry 31.5% of the time, losing 2 infantry and capturing the territory 24% of the time and unfortunate results for the remaining 29.5% of the time. These first three get an additional 2 points for income received at the end of the turn. In table form the results are:
14.96% Germans eliminated (+9 IPC), no Russian Loses (-0 IPC) & gain territory (+2 IPC) = +1.646
31.45% Germans eliminated (+9 IPC), 1 Russian inf lost (-3 IPC) & gain territory (+2 IPC) = +2.516
24.15% Germans eliminated (+9 IPC), 2 Russian inf lost (-6 IPC) & gain territory (+2 IPC) = +1.208
6.13% Germans eliminated (+9 IPC), 3 Russian inf lost (-9 IPC) = +0.000
0.02% Germans eliminated (+9 IPC), 3 Russian inf lost & 1 Russian fighter lost (-19 IPC) = -0.002
3.94% 2 German inf lost (+6 IPC), 3 Russian inf lost (-9 IPC) = -0.118
0.08% 2 German inf lost (+6 IPC), 3 Russian inf lost & 1 Russian fighter lost (-19 IPC) = -0.010
11.85% 1 German inf lost (+3 IPC), 2 Russian inf lost (-6 IPC) = -0.356
2.51% 1 German inf lost (+3 IPC), 3 Russian inf lost (-9 IPC) = -0.151
0.11% 1 German inf lost (+3 IPC), 3 Russian inf lost & 1 Russian fighter lost (-19 IPC) = -0.018
3.91% no German losses (0 IPC), 2 Russian inf lost (-6 IPC) = -0.235
0.83% no German losses (0 IPC), 3 Russian inf lost (-9 IPC) = -0.075
0.05% no German losses (0 IPC), 3 Russian inf lost & 1 Russian fighter lost (-19 IPC) = -0.010
Adding all these together, the total value is 4.40 IPCs. Since all of the worst results occur after the first roll of the dice, the Russian player may choose not to risk the fighter under any circumstances, but mathmatically it can be justified sometimes. One reason I like this attack is that it is a clear win in any of the first three options and they score 70.5% of the chances. Next I will post the statistics for the West Russia attack and see how that scores. I may also score some of Cmdr Jennifer’s options to see how they stack up. I will definately analyze the attack on Ukraine in R1.
I applaud you for your math! :-o
