A discussion on Germany's National Advantages


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Give me time, I’ll get all of them up.  Going in order.



    1. U-Boats Interdiction
      The untersee boats swamred allied shipping lanes, sinking ships regardless of their cargo.  Some “cargo” was noncombatants.

    During the collect income phase of the UK and US turns, subtract 1 IPC from the collecting power’s income foreach of your submarines on the game board.


    1. Atlantic Wall
      The Germans fortified the European Atlantic Coast with massive defensive systems from Norway to Spain.

    During any amphibious assault against a gray territory, all your infantry defend on a 3 or less during the first cycle of combat.


    1. Panzerblitz
      The colossal panzers rumbled across Europe and North Africa, they would breach enemy lines, then turn and wreak havoc on the defenders.

    If your attacking forces destroy all units in a territory in one cycle of combat; or, if no combat was necessary, any of your surviving tanks in the attacking forces may move 1 territory during the noncombat move phase.


    1. Wolf Packs
      Wolf packs of U-boats prowled the Atlantic, working together to down allied convoys.  The only sure thing about a U-boat was that there always was another nearby.

    Your submarines attack on a 3 (4 if you have the SUper Submarines technology) if there is more than one of them at the start of the combat cycle.  When there are less than two submarines at the start of a combat cycle, this ability is lost.  Wolf Packs do not improve defending submarines.  Enemy destroyers do not affect this National Advantage.  The submarines may come from different sea zones, but they must attack the same sea zone.


    1. Luftwaffe Dive-Bombers
      Europe was blitzed and bombed.  The JU-87 Stuka Dive-Bomber, a small plane, played a big role.  Its screaming siren generated terror on all battle fronts.

    Your fighters may conduct first round tactical bombing runs.  They are subject to antiaircraft fire as normal.  In the first cycle of combat, if there are no defending fighters present, the fighters hit on a roll of 5 or less in land battles only.  Any units hit still fire back normally in that round of combat.  In succeeding cycles of combat, the fighters hit normally.  If defending fighters are present, this first cycle ability is canceled.


    1. German Scientists
      Germany gathered some of the greatest scientific minds in the world to make technological breakthroughs to aid the German war effort.

    Your weapons development dice cost 4 IPCs instead of 5.



    Any ambiguities with these rules?  Honestly, I think Germany’s National Advantages are pretty descriptive (and powerful) although, I preferred Atlantic Wall + Fortress Europe myself.  Scientists just don’t replace my artillery defending like tanks, IMHO.



  • Dive Bombers are income preservation for Germany.  With a nice cluster of Stukas, Germany can trade all the way to Russia’s IC’s without risk.  And if the Allies send FIGs to the front to block the Stukas, then send in the ARM.

    Also, their value against Allied Fleet (still allowed in 1.3 though not in 2.0) cannot be discounted.
    6 FIGs, 1 BOM is 5 hits on Round 1…

    Combine with Panzerblitz…
    STRAFE LIKE HELL BOYS!


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I agree, Stukas took a major nerf moving from 1.3 to 2.0.  And they are nice, but are they nicer then Panzer Blitzing?  After all, Panzer Blitzing is the equivalent of using fighters since they can hit the target and retreat.

    I kind of wish they could hit the target, if they won, continue to an unoccupied territory behind the target if one existed though.

    German scientists, while good for getting Rockets (uber nice in Revised) doesn’t seem to do much more for Germany.  Between carriers and rockets, there isn’t that much disposable income.



  • i got the 1.3 rules, where are the German Scientist rules?
    i’m guessing thats 2.0, if thats the case where are the 2.0 rules? i was just told a few days ago that 1.3 was the set that were used. again i’m new hear and trying to get this.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    –-edit due to tekkyys correction–

    The German scientist NA will revitalize the old discussion of German Rocket Strategy.

    If your attacking forces destroy all units in a territory in one cycle of combat; or, if no combat was necessary, any of your surviving tanks in the attacking forces may move 1 territory during the non combat move phase.

    this is another idea from many house rules. AARHE uses this as well. I see no real changes in the other NA’s



  • No I am afraid LHTR 1.2 already had U-Boats Interdiction.  😉
    It remains in LHTR 1.3 and LHTR 2.0.

    AARHE does not have panzer blitz. Though we have un-conditional attacker retreat in general.

    I think Fortress Europe is better. Its not even round restricted!



  • @Pervavita:

    i got the 1.3 rules, where are the German Scientist rules?
    i’m guessing thats 2.0, if thats the case where are the 2.0 rules? i was just told a few days ago that 1.3 was the set that were used. again i’m new hear and trying to get this.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/LHTR
    Enjoy.


  • 2007 AAR League

    U-boat interdiction combined with wolfpack  🙂

    Thats Nice  🙂

    bye bye UK income, and it will hurt when allies trie to clear out sz5.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    But wolfpacks work like Super Submarines, only for attack, not for defense.  That means Germany has to attack the combined American fleet to get the bonus.

    Honestly, U-Boat interdict is nice, but of all the German NAs, it’s the weakest, IMHO.



  • NA’s should be picked to a nation’s strengths, not its weaknesses.

    Navy is Germany’s Achilles Heel in most games.  Their main strength is in land forces, and in that huge Air Force they start with, so select NA’s that bolster your existing strengths.  The last thing you want are NA’s that are dependent on the existence of your weakest combat arm… lose the weakest element, lose the NA.  That is a double hit for Germany if they go with Naval NA’s.

    The order I would take German NA’s:
    1.  Stukas (1.3 version that work on land and sea)
    2.  Panzerblitz (add Stukas and Russia will be on its heels the entire game)
    3.  Atlantic Wall (help block out the UK and USA while Stukas and Panzers go to work)
    4.  German Scientists (Rockets, then Jets.  Hammer the Allies economically, and have Jet Stukas that are 5’s across the board)
    5.  U-Boat Interdiction (economic damage to the Allies with existing SUBs, to be replaced by Rocket damage once I roll it)
    6.  Wolf-Packs (only worthwhile once I crack Russia and turn to go after London)


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    it seems very sad that they can only think of 6 different items for each nation. its like they are saying… I have a brain freeze and i cant conceive of anything beyond six different ideas because i’m lazy and choice is not an option in design.

    At a minimum 10 choices would be acceptable, 15 even better, and these NA’s should be on cards so players can have exactly whats going on in front of them… that would be 50 cards and sold as an official expansion for AA…

    its like these blokes have absolutely no ideas to offer anymore. I understand this thing is a “black watch” production but they are working with Larry and i just don’t understand the need to hold back ideas, when at the same time your offering all sorts of ideas with every change of LHTR.

    More NA’s would mix up strategy and allow it to have new life… I am tired of the same home study basically stagnating the game and defining it before it even played. Its very limiting IMO


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    IL:

    I think they limited themselves to 6 choices so that people could easily randomize it.  Just like with technology rolls.  Sure, anyone can think of 30+ technologies or advantages for each nation, but man, that’s going to be hard to implement when we’re talking randomization desires.

    My ranking, for Germany’s NA’s would be more like the following:

    1. Atlantik Wall (Infantry defending like tanks really, REALLY discourages the England and Americans from storming the beaches of Europe!)
    2. Panzers (Great period!  Attack like tanks, retreat like fighters!)
    3. Dive-Bombers (Great for land battles, worthless at sea or against enemy fighters)
    4. Scientists (Great for Rocket tech, Jets too if Russia becomes AA Gun heaven!)
    5. U-Boat (Nice in early stages, but easily over come and swamped by the allies)
    6. Wolf Packs (I just don’t see Germany attacking much, and they don’t work on defense)


  • i think U-Boats are getting under ratted. i havn’t played with these rules as i just got them (thx tekkyy; i would give + Karma but can’t). but looking at the German start they have 3 U-Boats, thats -$6 to the Allies on the first turn if none are sunk. no big deal there, but if Germany buys even 1 and drops it in the med where it’s safe it will be payed for in 4 turns of doing nothing. it may not be a big deal or a game winner, but i think it has the potental to have some real effect on the game.
    the true advantage to them isn’t the $2 a turn they take away, but rather that it’s annoying to both UK and US and they may direct attention to them that would other wise go other places.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    The reason they are rated low, for me, is as follows:

    1)  Submarines are expensive
    2)  Submarines die to fighters without risk to the fighters
    3)  Submarines purchased take 4 full turns to break even (odds?)
    4)  The two submarines in SZ 5 die in every game I’ve ever seen.  It’s just a debate over when, not if they die.
    5)  Germany has no business buying up lots of submarines.
    6)  America is relatively unaffected by U-Boats.  Sure, they have less money, but honestly, -3 IPC from 42 IPC is not that much.

    Those are ranked in order of importance to me.

    That said, if you get them as a random bonus, it isn’t horrible.  Germany, of course, has no worthless advantages.


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