Can US even defend Chi + Sin when JP has Banzai?


  • @magnomanx:

    So do people in tournaments use LHTR rules? and nobody complains about Russia?

    Cuz seriously, the first time I played Germany I took Moscow on my second turn. So I know how powerful Germany can be and I know that Russia cannot defend against the Germany onslaught by itself. So I was going to use Lend-Lease to give Russia TONS of infantry and have them activate severe winter to seal the deal.

    But I think Russia needs a little more love. They are weak as hell in LHTR.

    Ummm, if you took Moscow on your second turn, your opponent SUCKS!  You need better opponents, not better rules.


  • And yes, in LHTR Russia really has no good national advantages.  Non-Aggression is the best and it’s gone the instant Japan can attack something and beat it even with the bonus soldiers.

    I actually think the Russians have the best advantages.

    Both Non Aggression and Russian Winter each give a full 1 turn delay to the attacks of the Axis. A full turn is a huge advantage. Moving complexes is also simply amazing since the Japanese can’t simply collect the one in Caucasus.

    I don’t know that any nation is really lacking in advantages.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I disagree, of the 5 nations, I think Russia’s got the worst followed by England.

    Russian Winter is completely negated by just not attacking Russia for a round.  After that, it’s gone forever.
    Non-Aggression is also completely negated by just setting up to kill an extra 4 infantry (not exactly hard.)
    Russian Rail is almost useless after Round 1 in most games.
    Salvage hardly ever gets used, when it is, it’s probably while defending Moscow and odds are, Japan’s hitting you after that so you don’t get to use the extra tank against Germany.
    Lend-Lease is okay, but it’s more a penalty against England and America then a boon to Russia.  If Lend-Lease was changed to +2 IPC to Russia bonus if London was not captured and +2 to Russia bonus if Washington was not captured, it would be better and still not overly cumbersome to Germany/Japan.
    Mobile Industry is okay, but you have to have owned the land you move the IC too at the start of your round to build new units there.

    England’s got a few of those one shot deals too.  Enigma and French Resistance (Joint Strike too, but odds are you only need that once anyway.)

    Just my opinion.


  • Russian Winter is completely negated by just not attacking Russia for a round.  After that, it’s gone forever.
    Non-Aggression is also completely negated by just setting up to kill an extra 4 infantry (not exactly hard.)

    Think more critically. Both NAs as I previously mentioned and which you just verified both give Russia a full extra turn free from attacks. That is insane. I don’t know why you look at it like they can be negated by waiting a round, when that in fact is the whole point, to give you an extra round. What NAs actually do that? That’s a very good “temporary” bonus. That’s an extra round to crush Germany or build up more troops or whatever it is you do with a full round of income and movement.

    Russian Rail is almost useless after Round 1 in most games.
    Salvage hardly ever gets used, when it is, it’s probably while defending Moscow and odds are, Japan’s hitting you after that so you don’t get to use the extra tank against Germany.

    Every nation has a couple of shitty NAs. I’m not exactly happy when I receive Mideast Oil + French Resistance, or Fast Moving Carriers + Island Bases. Banzai is pretty bad now, and Kamikaze is useless if there’s no KJF going on. Wolfpacks and Uboat interdiction are no good if it’s KGF since you don’t have the resources to build subs to hold the Allies at bay.

    Mobile Industry is okay, but you have to have owned the land you move the IC too at the start of your round to build new units there.

    There’s no buts, it’s a great NA. No IC in Caucasus to give to the Japanese is the whole point; and if you’re at the point where you’re retreating that IC from the Japanese, it’s likely that you don’t have the income to support more than 8 infantry anyways so it’s not like you’re relying on that mobile complex to build something.

    I don’t know why you evaluate NAs effectiveness based solely on it being a one shot that’s gone later. That’s not good enough reason. If an NA was a one shot surefire attack on a capital, wouldn’t that be insanely good? You have to look at what the one shot does, not because it will be gone later.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    To me, the point of Mobile Industry is to walk it forward with your stack first into Karelia and then into E. Europe. :P

    In both cases, the Axis are denied the IC in Caucasus, correct.

    And yes, Russian Winter MIGHT delay the Germans/Japanese from attacking you for a round.  But they can still bolster their forces and just hit you after wards.  Or they can chose to take extra losses.  Either way, it’s gone now.

    Same with French Resistance.  I find it makes me hold off on landing in W. Europe until I can be sure to hold it, instead of just giving me extra units.

    Middle East Oil I find only useful in KJF, to be honest.  Even then, it’s limited.


  • And yes, Russian Winter MIGHT delay the Germans/Japanese from attacking you for a round.  But they can still bolster their forces and just hit you after wards.  Or they can chose to take extra losses.  Either way, it’s gone now.

    Again, think critically. It’s also a turn for the Allies to reinforce Russia….and again you seem to judge it based on the fact that it will be gone, rather than what it did. That argument doesn’t hold very much weight.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    What did it do?

    Let’s look:

    When declared it MIGHT have resulted in killing a couple extra German infantry attacking territories.  More likely, it just increased the odds of the 2 infantry, fighter attack against 1 defending infantry resulted in a death, but didn’t inflict more damage then Germany would reasonably expect anyway.

    When declared it MIGHT have resulted in Germany and Japan bolstering their defenses and ensuring that the next round they win even more decisively then otherwise.  Obviously this would be declared most effectively if the Axis only have a 70% chance to win anyway, this would reduce them to below 50% for the round, but otherwise, wouldn’t have much more effect.

    Does it give the allies another round?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Is it gone forever after you use it?  Definately.

    Do you want to prove your point?  I’ll give you Russian Winter and 3 random national advantages (1 for each nation) and I’ll chose 1 NA and random the other 3.

    Let’s see if your Russian winter does anything more for you then result in a couple extra dead Germans?

    LHTR 1.3?

    Or are you too chicken to try and prove it?


  • I don’t have the time resources to be taking on challenges as much as I’d like to…remember I even had to refuse your earlier KJF challenge even though I wanted in. I’m going massively slow as it is with Gamer, we’ve finished one full round in 2 weeks?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Excuses are reasons for mediocrity.


  • Mediocrity is a reason for excuses.

    (Not that I’m accusing anyone of being mediocre… I’m just saying.  :-D)

    ~Josh


  • How to defend China and Sianking? Skill my friend, pure skill.

    Japan tried to take China from me in the first move, he failed, miserably.  He lost practically everything in the attack, including one or two fighters so that his land units could survive cause planes can’t take territory. I lost one infantry.

    Next turn my two infantry from sianking moved in and I got a freebie from chinese divisions. So 4 inf and the fighter still. He attacked with 5 banzai infantry and they were all slaughtered.  I got another freebie later to replace him of course.  With the UK pounding indochina drawing of japanese forces, US tanks and infantry staging from Alaska, and his battleships and transports mostly dead, japan is probably done attacking China.  :-P

    Generally I’m always the one with the sucky luck. Like last game where I was Germany and we were losing entirely due to my consistently bad luck all game. But when the good luck comes, you gotta love it.  :-D

    Oh and yeah in reality to seriously hold a US IC there, you would need lots of russian support, and still have to be real careful. If Russia takes it they have  free IC right next to Moscow.

    Ugh sorry, got a little carried away reading through old threads. Horrible example of thread necromancy there.  :-P

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