• any one can avoid a trend. If i can avoid all the Fashion trends then Amerika can avoid the Empire falling trend 😛


  • im not saying america wont but its possible 😉


  • America will fall, but don’t be so sure that it will be anytime soon…

    We are an empire, just like all of those others listed, but ONE factor must be kept in mind. We are the first empire to WILLINGLY cease expansion. In fact, when we stopped expanding, we grew in power. This factor throws a monkey wrench into the idea of how long we may last. Most of those other empires continually invaded other places to grow in wealth and power, but we found a way to do that from home. Many other nations still hate us, though, even though we send so much aid out… or maybe it’s just unneccesary jealousy? They would have the same wealth and power if they would also adopt freedom and capitalism, so I don’t feel sorry for them…


  • Maybe the US won’t fall. But let’s look at those empires that did fall:We have the Egyptian Empire, the Babylonian, Empire, the Assyrian Empire, the Greek Empire, the Ptolmeic Empire, the Parthian Empire, the Seleucid Empire, the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Holy Roman Empire(First German Reich). The Spanish Empire, the Portuguese Empire, the Russian Empire, the French Empire, the Aztec Empire, the German Empire (Second German Reich), the Ottoman Turkish Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the British Empire, the Soviet Union, the Third Reich, and the Japanese Empire.

    Look and examine what did this empires in, you will see US practically holds none of these major disadvantages. In most cases, the fall of one Empire, through conquest, led to the creation of another. But in those times, the World was a much smaller place and frankly undiscovered. There was no United Nations or whatnot.

    America will fall, but don’t be so sure that it will be anytime soon…

    Again I ask for evidence (and the not papers on the rants of Pat Buchanan)… so far none has been provided… :-?


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    It’s only ignorance depending on which direction you’re viewing it from. Did it ever occur to you that maybe they’re the ones who are ignorant? :roll: Have you ever stopped to think that they’re ignorant when it comes to living peaceful and meaningful lives? :-?

    Who are oyu talking of exactly, DS?
    And for the direction of viewing… you must have travelled far… 😉

    We live in the most just and fair country on this planet.

    lol rofl lmao ….
    “the”… and i bet there are still people out there who wouldn’t call that ignorant or arrogant, right?

    If we’re going to speak of ignorance, look at the entire picture. EVERYBODY IS IGNORANT is some aspect of their thinking. I get tired of hearing people throw out fallacious comments that Americans are ignorant. What the hell are we so ignorant about, that it’s going to destroy our country eventually??

    Your first statement is true, unfortunately for the world and mankind.
    The second one: You are ignorant about the rest of the world.
    You say “lat’s bomb Canada” (see the other thread), call it a joke and presumably would wonder when they are pissed at you. You press hard against one country which defied the UN, and support another one who did the same and is just a few kms away from the first…. there is so much more to list, which you wouldn’t think that it appears arrogant or ignorant to the rest of the world, but it still is there.


  • @EmuGod:

    It really sounds like you’re talking abut the German reichs F_alk. I only wish the Third Reich would not have taken so long to fall.

    I was also referring to the Romans, the Chinese, Spain and Portugal.
    Germany’s Third Reich and Napoleons France didn’t exist long enough to grow decadent (though they started (germany more, france less) arrogant and ignorant, but these empires were ended through wars).


  • @cystic:

    I could not presume to find the poll on this or the hard evidence. Maybe give me some time and impetus . . . F_alk? you have anything?

    Ohm, i just came back from the weekend…. what exactly do you ask for? Evidence/ a poll on that topic?


  • @TG:

    America will fall, but don’t be so sure that it will be anytime soon…

    Again I ask for evidence (and the not papers on the rants of Pat Buchanan)… so far none has been provided… :-?

    Well, i give you my evidence for “The US will fall”, if you give me yours of “It won’t”….
    you must understand, my data is highly classified, coming directly from my future descendants through channels which i have to get accepted by Physical Review Letters first … 😉 😄


  • @F_alk:

    We live in the most just and fair country on this planet.

    lol rofl lmao ….
    “the”… and i bet there are still people out there who wouldn’t call that ignorant or arrogant, right?

    i was wondering if anyone was going to pick up on this. The UN considers the US guilty of many human rights abuses. But i guess if enough Americans say “we’re not guilty, we’re the most fair and just country on the planet” than it must be true . . . .


  • Well, i give you my evidence for “The US will fall”, if you give me yours of “It won’t”….

    I get my information from Economic data and strong histroy. That is mostly what matters. US: increasing economic growth (avg. 3% per year), very high per capita living considering its size, abundance in natural resources, stopped expanding which actually increased its wealth, good legal system (not the best but better than that of frontier capitalist), good technology and service infrastructure, relatively sound republcian system (yes, none of those “Emperors” that have led to the downfall of other Empires), rising education, strong military, ect.


  • by 2020 china ill have a bigger GDP then the US-the UN


  • @TG:

    Well, i give you my evidence for “The US will fall”, if you give me yours of “It won’t”….

    I get my information from Economic data and strong histroy. That is mostly what matters. US: increasing economic growth (avg. 3% per year), very high per capita living considering its size, abundance in natural resources, stopped expanding which actually increased its wealth, good legal system (not the best but better than that of frontier capitalist), good technology and service infrastructure, relatively sound republcian system (yes, none of those “Emperors” that have led to the downfall of other Empires), rising education, strong military, ect.

    that seems to be a fair assessment. Plus they seem to have a fairly firm hand on many of the “nut jobs” that might seek to tearing things apart.


  • but the US is losing jobs


  • by 2020 china ill have a bigger GDP then the US-the UN

    Yes, I stated this before. However, that does not mean the US will not still remain a great power on its own. (Remember, that’s GDP, not per capita income). If anything, a strong China means a stronger USA due to improved trade relations.

    but the US is losing jobs

    Read the buisness cycle: areas of recession -> high unemployment, areas of economic boom -> low unemployment
    During “regular” periods (economy still grows but not as high > 3%) you’ll be hard pressed to find US unemployment +5%


  • @TG:

    I get my information from Economic data and strong histroy. That is mostly what matters. US: increasing economic growth (avg. 3% per year), very high per capita living considering its size, abundance in natural resources, stopped expanding which actually increased its wealth, good legal system (not the best but better than that of frontier capitalist), good technology and service infrastructure, relatively sound republcian system (yes, none of those “Emperors” that have led to the downfall of other Empires), rising education, strong military, ect.

    and telling me that others can’t see a joke when one is done 😉

    But: most of it is true, except for the increasing economic growth ( you need to tell me howmany years you take for averaging), most/all of the “old empires” had vast natural ressources as well, rome and china had a sound legal system as well, and the best technology and service infrastructure, and a strong military, and they also stopped expanding after some time.

    that leaves:
    high capita per living… which i have to translate first, not something i use often 🙂
    sound republican system, well… “sound” is relative… two parties just grow corrupt…and look at the number of ppl voting…35% ???
    rising education…cough well… would you really put your name under that??

    I don’t say that the US will fall tomorrow, or in my lifetime. But: it will fall, and i think it will not dominate the world for a time as long as the romans or chinese did…

    Ah, my evidence is history and the above, btw 🙂


  • I don’t say that the US will fall tomorrow, or in my lifetime. But: it will fall, and i think it will not dominate the world for a time as long as the romans or chinese did….

    Doubtful…

    rising education…cough well… would you really put your name under that??

    Yeah American education, I must be stupid… :-?

    sound republican system, well…. “sound” is relative… two parties just grow corrupt…and look at the number of ppl voting…35% ???

    Generally those who are angry vote. Why vote when everything is going fine? The way the republic system is set up (checks and balances between three branches, Constitution, Bill of Rights) is for the most part, fine. If the two parties get to corrupt or out of line, then it will be the people who respond: in form of communist uprising. 😎

    except for the increasing economic growth ( you need to tell me howmany years you take for averaging),

    That is the measured standard. Usually you can find economic growth along with other charts that include per capita and GDP…

    most/all of the “old empires” had vast natural ressources as well

    Through conquest? Or was it just Rome alone?

    rome and china had a sound legal system as well

    Refering to economic legal system…

    and they also stopped expanding after some time

    Which generally marked their decline (rule of thumb, no Empire collapses when it’s still conquering away). In the US case, it is different.

    and the best technology and service infrastructure, and a strong military

    Signs of a healthy, strong empire.


  • lol rofl lmao ….
    “the”… and i bet there are still people out there who wouldn’t call that ignorant or arrogant, right?

    Those are the people who haven’t had the opportunity to live in our country. Jealously, like I said.
    Jealousy becuase we’re the most powerful country, deservedly.
    Jealousy becuase we have opportunity’s to succeed that other’s don’t.
    Jealousy becuase we have a freedom that many other country don’t have.

    If you don’t think we’re the most just and fair planet on this country, then which country is it?

    The second one: You are ignorant about the rest of the world.

    I’m ignorant about the rest of the world? Interesting.
    Name one country that isn’t ignorant in some aspect of their thinking (or foreign policy if you prefer.) :roll:


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    lol rofl lmao ….
    “the”… and i bet there are still people out there who wouldn’t call that ignorant or arrogant, right?

    Those are the people who haven’t had the opportunity to live in our country. Jealously, like I said.
    Jealousy becuase we’re the most powerful country, deservedly.
    Jealousy becuase we have opportunity’s to succeed that other’s don’t.
    Jealousy becuase we have a freedom that many other country don’t have.

    If you don’t think we’re the most just and fair planet on this country, then which country is it?

    The second one: You are ignorant about the rest of the world.

    I’m ignorant about the rest of the world? Interesting.
    Name one country that isn’t ignorant in some aspect of their thinking (or foreign policy if you prefer.) :roll:

    Canada is much mroe just and fair than the United States, I find. Probably because fundamentaly the countries are so different. There were three major differences between Canada and hte Untied States, which is what led to them being separate countries.

    1. The US was founded through a Revolutionary War, Canada was founded through negotiation with the British (a much more peaceful atmosphere)

    2)The US was founded on the backs of slaves, Canada had very few slaves and eventually became a have nfor fleeing slaves. Read “Underground to Canada”. It’s a story based on it.

    1. The settlement of the West. The US settled its west through violence while Canada brought in the Northwest Mounted Police to make sure there wouldnt be violence andconflict with the Natives.

    I find that Canada is much more fair, more because of its diversity rather than the American assimilation belief, I think that the fact that Canada is generally more to the lefton the political spectrum than the United States makes it a more open country. But there are many more such as New Zealand and Sweden, which are also very open. In terms of being a just country, America has dont some very unjust things. If it were one or two, then I might agree with you. Unfortunately it’s somewhat of a list.


  • Also our motivations for entering conflict are completely different. They tend to be strictly humanitarian, or for the greater good of the world - almost never for our own gain - political or material etc. Our treatment of marginalized people, although not by any stretch perfect, is heads and shoulders above that of the US. Our “Civil war” was a barroom brawl, and we’ve established ways for provinces to split off that involve a very democratic process. Freedom of speech is taken even more seriously here than in the states too. I recall a pastor from Kansas who came up here to burn the Canadian flag in Ottawa over some gay issue, but we provided the RCMP guard for the people who didn’t show up to do some bad thing to him (apparently he was thwarted from doing the same in the states for some reason).
    But the thing is, Canada is not the only country in the world w/ these views. Add Scandanavia, Japan, and many other 1st world countries, and you’ll find similar values. And none of us envy the states (nor are we envied to any violent extent, apparently for some reason).


  • MoinMoin all

    And none of us envy the states (nor are we envied to any violent extent, apparently for some reason).

    I agree (yea yea), it’s very easy to say “you’re jealous”, but a little harder to back the claim. I woul’nt want to live in a country were people get executed, were religion is a pillar of the society, and were the poor are second class citizen; i don’t call that liberty.

    Sure, there’s lots of anti-american feeling, our president (germany) was elected because of his anti-american position, same thing the the SD in sweden, exept the UK, no one like the US, and one day, americans will have to stop thinking other are just jealous and start thinking why so much people don’t like them. Every super-power in the world were not that much rejected.

    1. The US was founded through a Revolutionary War, Canada was founded through negotiation with the British (a much more peaceful atmosphere)

    Right, but this does’nt mean anything, while the method used were not… ethical, the idea behind the revolution was justified.

    Canada is much mroe just and fair than the United States, I find.

    And you can walk into the street in Toronto or Montreal without bodyguards 🙂


  • @FinsterniS:

    1. The US was founded through a Revolutionary War, Canada was founded through negotiation with the British (a much more peaceful atmosphere)

    Right, but this does’nt mean anything, while the method used were not… ethical, the idea behind the revolution was justified.

    to some extent, i guess. Although from what i read, the “shot heard around the world” didn’t really need to be fired. The rest kind of snowballed . . . .

    Canada is much mroe just and fair than the United States, I find.

    And you can walk into the street in Toronto or Montreal without bodyguards 🙂

    i’m going to try that!!


  • to some extent, i guess. Although from what i read, the “shot heard around the world” didn’t really need to be fired. The rest kind of snowballed . . . .

    Yeah, it would be much better if Britain remained the mother country to the States… :roll: Wonderful.


  • @TG:

    I don’t say that the US will fall tomorrow, or in my lifetime. But: it will fall, and i think it will not dominate the world for a time as long as the romans or chinese did….

    Doubtful…

    Not at all … 😉

    sound republican system, well…. “sound” is relative… two parties just grow corrupt…and look at the number of ppl voting…35% ???

    Generally those who are angry vote. Why vote when everything is going fine? The way the republic system is set up (checks and balances between three branches, Constitution, Bill of Rights) is for the most part, fine. If the two parties get to corrupt or out of line, then it will be the people who respond: in form of communist uprising. 😎

    Well, if only those that are angry vote, then it is surprising that your system works at all. Imagine:
    I am angry, i vote a party to change as much as possible (assuming such a party exists in the US 😉 ). The ones who don’t want change, don’t vote.
    Who will get the majority in the parliament? If only those who complain vote…. then i really wonder!

    except for the increasing economic growth ( you need to tell me howmany years you take for averaging),

    That is the measured standard. Usually you can find economic growth along with other charts that include per capita and GDP…

    🙂 not that this helps me. I do come from a scientific background… How does GDP translate ;)?
    And american “standards” are known not to be world-wide standards necessarily 🙂 :)… inches, gallons… 😉

    most/all of the “old empires” had vast natural ressources as well

    Through conquest? Or was it just Rome alone?

    Through the area they ruled. Rome, China for example, being the two greatest and longest lasting empires. And the Ottomans held a great empire for a very long time without these ressources.

    and they also stopped expanding after some time

    Which generally marked their decline (rule of thumb, no Empire collapses when it’s still conquering away). In the US case, it is different.

    Sure, just by definition conquering empires don’t collapse, that’s more than a rule of thumb. Look at Alexander the great: As soon as he died during his conquests his empire crumbled away.
    And saying that is saying China declined for most of its time, or (West) Rome declined for 360 years, after your logic. Not counting Byzantine, which declined much longer, didn’t it (should be about 800 years, after your logic)? The 250 year decline of the Ottomans of course should not be forgotten.

    I would not say that “stopping conquest” was the important thing. More the end of “being threatened in its existance” and “fighting wars” (that’s a difference to conquest). Often, the end of conquest was followed by a time of cultural achievements….

    From this point of view, it is hard to say where i would put the US into.
    They surely still do wage wars regularly, but their existance is not threatened from the outside. They had a period of cultural “blooming”… american style, but still. Plus: Most of the smartest brains in the US have been imported (just like Rome had to do in the later times)… difficult, but still i cannot see any evidence that the US will dominate this planet for the rest of humankinds time.


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    If you don’t think we’re the most just and fair planet on this country, then which country is it?

    I don’t know, i haven’t visited all.

    The second one: You are ignorant about the rest of the world.

    I’m ignorant about the rest of the world? Interesting.
    Name one country that isn’t ignorant in some aspect of their thinking (or foreign policy if you prefer.) :roll:

    There is no country that is not ignorant in some aspects.
    But, why did you cut away the rest of the quote, especially what i replied to?
    (you said: What the hell are we so ignorant about, that it’s going to destroy our country eventually? my answer was: the rest of the world)
    So, please stop ripping my quotations out of their context. And read carefully, as my answer was not directed at you personally, but just an answer to your question. As i doubt that you are in any major decision making position for the US, i can assume that you being ignorant or not will not have greatinfluence on the decisions made in Washington or elsewhere. (Just as my opinion does not have great influence for affairs over here).
    Of course, i cannot tell wether you are GWB in disguise….

    Still: if you quote me, please at least try to keep my words in context. …
    See what i can with words you said by not quoting “cleanly”…


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    It’s only ignorance …
    they’re the ones who are ignorant …
    Have you ever stopped to think that they’re ignorant…?

    We live in the most just and fair country on this planet. It’s this way … simply becuase of religious beliefs. We support leaders … and knock down those who wish to oppress us.

    See what i mean, DS? Please, if you quote, take care that you don’T quote out of context…. And i was so kind to put "…"s in where i cut your text away.

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