Another German Navy Opener


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I’ll take my battles one at a time. 😛  You can make any strategy look like carp if you try to say “all battles average XX%” because the percentages always drop as you factor in more and more battles.

    And what did I truncate?  Either India can be invaded by an infantry uncontested and then slaughtered or it’s too heavily fortified to take anyway.  Either you can invade Buryatia un-opposed or it’s too heavily defended as well.

    Either way, you usually end up in China with 6 infantry, 2 fighters give or take an infantry or fighter.



  • No time to completely review, but 2 changes…

    1.  Japan SUB killed by UK SUB, TRN, and FIG in SZ45
    2.  Extra FIG (UK’s) in SZ52

    Now, reconfigure, and remember India is stacked with 4 UK INF and AA, plus a USSR ARM and FIG.  Bury is stacked with 6 INF, 1 FIG.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    You assume you kill the submarine in SZ 45

    You have a decent shot, but I’ve seen England fail multiple times even with that force.

    And if you have that much equipment against Japan, why arn’t you going KJF?  You know Germany’s gunna go balls to the wall on Russia if they see that open.


  • 2007 AAR League

    @ncscswitch:

    No time to completely review, but 2 changes…

    1.  Japan SUB killed by UK SUB, TRN, and FIG in SZ45
    2.  Extra FIG (UK’s) in SZ52

    Now, reconfigure, and remember India is stacked with 4 UK INF and AA, plus a USSR ARM and FIG.  Bury is stacked with 6 INF, 1 FIG.

    Yes, it does limit Japan’s openings but, with Russian offensive units in India and the sz35 fighter being used in the Pacific and not helping retake Egypt, Germany gets a pretty big bonus. Six of one, half a dozen of the other in my opinion.



  • I think also that the way the Russian’s are stacking Asia that they are “limited” to a one area attack - W. Russia. That also helps the Germans. I don’t know which way is better overall (focus on KGF or SJF), though.



  • I’ve seen yet another interesting use of that “to-be-lost-anyway” German Baltic fleet. Now I thought NOT to open a new topic… as this one is descriptive at least as title.

    1G: Baltic tra stays in Baltic and convoys troops to Karelia.
    Des 2sub move to sz07 (NW France).
    Med Btl tra go to Egypt to sink destroyer and convoy troops to battle.

    Especially effective if G sub originally in sz08 has survived crushing the UK BB (33% chance) and 5 fighters landed in France. Bomber is in Libya, also in range.

    UK fleet definitely cannot afford to attack, win and stay in sz07 even with UK air support, due to crushing counterattack. Can attack sz07 with air only BUT 1-2 subs may submerge. May attack sz07 with BB 2tra 2fig intending to retreat to sz08 after one round.
    Some air may be diverted to attack Baltic tra or W.Med sub, but this leaves the whole sz07 to counterattack.

    At the very least, this forces an UK carrier purchase, US fighter landing and unification in sz08 (so no Africa, Norway or other fancy actions).



  • @Magister:

    At the very least, this forces an UK carrier purchase, US fighter landing and unification in sz08 (so no Africa, Norway or other fancy actions).

    Why is a UK a/c purchase round 1 looked down upon so strongly?

    Screw the optimal ‘KGF’…the allies can run KGF in a less than optimal fashion.

    Flat tops in the atlantic offer ftrs lots of extra range throughout the game (i.e. ftrs in caucasus can hit germany/southern and land somewhere safely, or from west russia, add western europe as a target too).

    Plus you guarentee a fleets safety with 2 ftrs on a carrier protecting it.
    4 tpts and a BB can be sunk with just planes alone alot easier than people think.



  • Thank you Axis…

    I have been arguing that for a while now, but to no avail to many folks apparently.



  • I didn’t intend to ever buy an UK carrier (many more useful options: 2 transports, fighter+2inf etc).
    But now that it is, it has a positive effect. It could allow 3 Allied fleets to survive around Germany (sz08 SW Britain, 06 Channel, 05 Baltic) to add the new US transports without disrupting the existing deeper UK+US flows (to Karelia or EEU) or to spare something to reply better to a Japanese raid to Brazil.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    In a Kill Japan First strategy, buying a British Aircraft Carrier isn’t so bad. In a Kill Germany First strategy, buying a carrier is as much a waste as buying extra transports.  Why?  Because you already have one, and one is all you need!



  • @Magister:

    I’ve seen yet another interesting use of that “to-be-lost-anyway” German Baltic fleet. Now I thought NOT to open a new topic… as this one is descriptive at least as title.

    1G: Baltic tra stays in Baltic and convoys troops to Karelia.
    Des 2sub move to sz07 (NW France).
    Med Btl tra go to Egypt to sink destroyer and convoy troops to battle.

    Especially effective if G sub originally in sz08 has survived crushing the UK BB (33% chance) and 5 fighters landed in France. Bomber is in Libya, also in range.

    UK fleet definitely cannot afford to attack, win and stay in sz07 even with UK air support, due to crushing counterattack. Can attack sz07 with air only BUT 1-2 subs may submerge. May attack sz07 with BB 2tra 2fig intending to retreat to sz08 after one round.
    Some air may be diverted to attack Baltic tra or W.Med sub, but this leaves the whole sz07 to counterattack.

    At the very least, this forces an UK carrier purchase, US fighter landing and unification in sz08 (so no Africa, Norway or other fancy actions).

    It doesn’t force a UK carrier purchase.  UK navy stays northwest of UK.  German fighters in Western Europe can’t hit (not enough range).  UK air attacks; destroying German destroyer.  US bomber attacks with good chance of picking up a spare German sub.  Allied attack is delayed, but a carrier purchase is not forced.

    @axis_roll:

    Why is a UK a/c purchase round 1 looked down upon so strongly?

    . . .
    Plus you guarentee a fleets safety with 2 ftrs on a carrier protecting it.
    4 tpts and a BB can be sunk with just planes alone alot easier than people think.

    A UK a/c lets the Allied fleet attack a lot earlier.  However, where do you want to go with that a/c?  If you want to go to Norway, then the UK fleet cannot unite with the US fleet (the US is too far away).  If you want to go to Algeria, then the newly built UK carrier can’t join the fleet right away, so you might as well wait for the US to buy the carrier instead.  And so forth.

    4 tpts, a destroyer, sub, and battleship can be sunk with just German air, yes.  However, it is quite expensive for the Germans to trade 10 IPC fighters for 8 IPC transports, and the Allies can quickly rebuild their fleet.

    This is not to say that the Allies should NOT buy a carrier.  Nor is it to say that the UK should not buy a carrier.  I would say, though, that in most games, the Allies don’t need a carrier, and even in those games in which the Allies should buy a carrier, it is most likely to be the US that should buy that carrier.



  • AC UK1 is standard for me, maybe UK2 but even if Germany don’t buy ftrs the UK fleet can be easily sunk.


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