AARHE 1939 Edition


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Heres the link. its up to others to make a set up. I was bored. It was meant to play with AARHE rules using the new units. Minor changes were made to comply with known game playability items ( very minor). Remember this is Revised map. I don’t need silly comments unless they are purely aesthetic points.

    If someone is kind enough to print the map out and find a balanced set up and some simple rules it would benefit the community at large.

    http://www.mediafire.com/?favn9zmecw9

    http://www.mediafire.com/upload_complete.php?id=kzjtztojgow



  • Rules. To start with do we need the conditions for transfer of control of blue territories to Axis?

    Setup. We are making a new map anyway. Its time to forgo AAR style balance. AARHE handles balance with victory condition rather than hacks anyway.

    If you recall our discussion in the making of the old Italy map (“phase 3 map”)…you would remember that I find it all a bit of a hack. But thats fine keeping in mind AARHE was house rule not variant.

    We can really work on this and provide a variant extension to AARHE!
    ie. Get rid of the current phase 3 map and replace it with this scenario.

    For the map that I printed out I actually did fruther tweaks. Like fixed the VC geographic location and got rid of the hypothetical lake at Manchuria. Although the map doesn’t have true continent line and lakes and borders to start with lol.

    I see you’ve added islands. Can we take the extra step in making a realistic map?
    I’ve downloaded heaps of free illustrator world maps.
    I hope we can do one of the following…

    A. You make the realistic AARHE 1939 map
    B. I do the drawing instead, if you don’t have the time


  • Customizer

    OK, map comments.  Please do not dismiss these as “silly”, they are genuine suggestions for improvement.  Of course the map is restricted by the many major errors in AAR which you clearly do not wish to correct on this map, so I’ll limit comments on the understanding of this.

    For 1939, Brazil was neutral and Greenland a colony of Denmark, therefore neutral.
    My views on giving Bulgaria and Trans-Jordan part control of the canal zones are known to you.
    You also know my opinion of Rio de Oro, but how about making this the UK colony of Sierra Leone which was an important naval base?
    Where are you placing ICs for Russia? In my view the adjacent ICs at Moscow and Stalingrad are a major flaw in AAR, leading to an overemphasis on this area of the map.  If you must keep Moscow-in-the-Urals then place the other IC in Leningrad
    The Italian roundel you show is for the post 1943 Allied co-belligerant airforce. Use the Fasces symbol.  Also for Russia, I suggest the plain red star on black design Nuclear has used on his map, which I think is more effective than the MB hammer and sickle concoction.
    What’s going on with VCs, i.e. Russia has 8 but Germany and Italy only 1 each.

    Some minor points:

    Batavia is on Java not Sumatra
    I’m sorry, but putting Chicago in Montana looks awful; make it Denver or Las Vegas
    Before Vichy France came about why call south France “Vichy” and French colonies “Free French”?
    Bulgaria is mountainous (the Balkans are mainly in Bulgaria), I suggest also mountains for Spain, Sinkiang, China, IEA and Algeria
    Lybia is spelled Libya
    Rhodesia would be better called British East Africa as it extends to Kenya
    Does the UK have a land bridge to Ireland?  This doesn’t matter in AAR with inviolable neutrals, but placing the UK roundel over the Irish sea makes this ambiguos so I’d place it clearly within the UK



  • Yeah I fixed the VC location for my printout.
    Rio de Janeiro is no longer inland.
    Shanghai is no longer in south east China.
    http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/20070818 AARHE_standard_with_setup.png


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I see you’ve added islands. Can we take the extra step in making a realistic map?
    I’ve downloaded heaps of free illustrator world maps.
    I hope we can do one of the following…

    A. You make the realistic AARHE 1939 map
    B. I do the drawing instead, if you don’t have the time

    This map has to be as close as possible with AA Revised with a minimal of changes. I have made many realistic maps, but i want to keep the same flavor as revised as to not alienate revised players. If you make a simple step you will get more people to play it.

    I dont believe in replacing any other maps. This is adding yet another map. I am considering making a great war version or a Napoleonic version for AARHE as well.

    The further idea is to keep the same player aids and just come up with an alternate set up and solve the issues you brought up.

    setup
    neutrality of major powers and diplomacy
    adding the new units
    making a turn sequence
    some sub tweeks due to better capabilities of subs relative to ASW


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    For 1939, Brazil was neutral and Greenland a colony of Denmark, therefore neutral.

    Yes i know this, except after a few turns thats not relevant because US declares its dominion of these after 1940 and they are in fact under US control for many more turns then they are not. Thats why Finland , Romania, Bulgaria are colored light grey instead of neutral… because they are soon becoming axis partners. Besides Greenland is not threatened by axis by turn 3.

    My views on giving Bulgaria and Trans-Jordan part control of the canal zones are known to you.
    You also know my opinion of Rio de Oro, but how about making this the UK colony of Sierra Leone which was an important naval base?

    AARHE has no ‘naval bases’ basically any land territory has at least one major military naval base. Sierra Leone is too small of a new territory to make any difference to the game. It does not add anything.

    Where are you placing ICs for Russia? In my view the adjacent ICs at Moscow and Stalingrad are a major flaw in AAR, leading to an overemphasis on this area of the map.  If you must keep Moscow-in-the-Urals then place the other IC in Leningrad

    The setup has not been made yet. The territory values must remain the same to allow for similar strategies and ideas.

    The Italian roundel you show is for the post 1943 Allied co-belligerant airforce. Use the Fasces symbol.  Also for Russia, I suggest the plain red star on black design Nuclear has used on his map, which I think is more effective than the MB hammer and sickle concoction.

    The roundels are not relevent. If you want the other roundels DL phase 2/3 maps for AARHE. I want to use the conventional roundel. The Soviet Roundel that i made is just fine and keeps the aesthetics in the same tradition as what people are used to.

    What’s going on with VCs, i.e. Russia has 8 but Germany and Italy only 1 each.

    They were designed with AARHE 1942 in mind not 1939…

    Batavia is on Java not Sumatra
    I’m sorry, but putting Chicago in Montana looks awful; make it Denver or Las Vegas
    Before Vichy France came about why call south France “Vichy” and French colonies “Free French”?
    Bulgaria is mountainous (the Balkans are mainly in Bulgaria), I suggest also mountains for Spain, Sinkiang, China, IEA and Algeria

    Chicago has to be in central USA and on Revised map thats the only space where it can go. South France must be Vichy because you keep forgetting that france will fall and Vichy rules are in effect. I cant keep providing a map for every month to denote whatever change you fancy. People are going to spend 50-80 bucks printing  a copy of this map and it has to be one of averages where it offers utility for the BETTER part of the war. Mountains for spain are possible, Bulgaria and Algeria will have mountains

    Lybia is spelled Libya

    yes will fix

    Rhodesia would be better called British East Africa as it extends to Kenya
    Does the UK have a land bridge to Ireland?  This doesn’t matter in AAR with inviolable neutrals, but placing the UK roundel over the Irish sea makes this ambiguos so I’d place it clearly within the UK

    I am not changing the names of OLD revised territories because thats what people are used too. This is not a wholescale change from Revised. Its a moderate historical edition. Ireland /roundel is in the same place as revised and nobody complained about it since 2004. Its already clear to people who play revised. I am not placing the roundel over England because its not where it is under revised.


  • Customizer

    Well, having the Allied roundel for Italy might not matter for people who don’t know what side Italy was on in 1939-43.  Also, the French roundel is incorrect; the centre should be blue, the outer ring red.

    But you miss my point about the UK roundel; it’s deliberately put there in Revised to fudge the issue of weather or not to have Northern Ireland.  It doesn’t matter as such because Eire is neutral.
    But as I understand it you intend neutrals to be active on this map in which case it’s important to determine the exact border for movement purposes, which is why I suggest moving the roundel to make this perfectly clear given the new rules.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    ok ill move the icon away for clarification. Thats i decent point.



  • I cannot view the map file.  What program are you guys using for that?



  • @tekkyy:

    “I’ve downloaded heaps of free illustrator world maps.”

    Where can i get an Adobe Illustrator (ie vector) map(s) from the 1939-1945 era?  Or would you mind uploading them?


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    What program are you guys using for that?

    DL Illustrator CS2 free trial version to view it or adobe viewer ( also free)



  • @Imperious:

    This map has to be as close as possible with AA Revised with a minimal of changes.

    Oh ok. Not a full blown variant.

    I dont believe in replacing any other maps. This is adding yet another map. I am considering making a great war version or a Napoleonic version for AARHE as well.
    The further idea is to keep the same player aids and just come up with an alternate set up and solve the issues you brought up.

    Ok not necessarily replace then.
    More like make this map and then “update” the 1942 Italy map with new ideas from this project to end the issues I mentioned in that map/scenario.

    Though I don’t believe Napoleonic would really fit in the AARHE rules.
    Probably better to handle it like one of your 1962 cold war variant. Cherry pick rules to include and then add others.

    @Imperious:

    Yes i know this, except after a few turns thats not relevant because US declares its dominion of these after 1940 and they are in fact under US control for many more turns then they are not. Thats why Finland , Romania, Bulgaria are colored light grey instead of neutral… because they are soon becoming axis partners. Besides Greenland is not threatened by axis by turn 3.

    Although I think we should made use of the neutral invasion or diplomacy dice in AARHE. Could let it be a typical strategy for US to land at Greenland. It’ll be more consistent I feel.
    AARHE is about historical realism not historical replay right?

    We have Azores which not Iceland?

    The setup has not been made yet. The territory values must remain the same to allow for similar strategies and ideas.

    Again I think we can leave the option (of adjusting territory income values) on the table .
    I mean we’ve added income via new territories and neutral income anyway.

    They were designed with AARHE 1942 in mind not 1939…

    I take it you mean there were carried from AARHE and going to be updated during this project.



  • @Raider:

    Where can i get an Adobe Illustrator (ie vector) map(s) from the 1939-1945 era?  Or would you mind uploading them?

    Not sure. My ones were modern. Just tweak it a little.
    My purpose was realistic continent lines and locations.

    english.freemap.jp
    www.plainglob.com

    @Nuclear:

    What program are you guys using for that?

    .ai is the Adobe Illustrator format.
    As Imperious mentioned, you could be Adobe Acrobe Reader.
    Though in my experience layers are handled properly. So if say IPC values are missing then you’ve gotta use Illustrator.
    If its a real problem, I guess me or Imperious could give you a PNG version.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I made a number of positive changes for aesthetics. I also made the posted changes for all concerned.

    It now looks more accurate.

    http://www.mediafire.com/upload_complete.php?id=twzkleytua2

    http://www.mediafire.com/?d4yjl9rzcth

    Tekkyy please jpeg this or png it for others. I think this will be it for the final version unless i missed something.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    We have Azores which not Iceland?

    yes considered. The location of this would most likely be with yet another territory.

    I think Greenland should also be neutral… but the french labeled as Vichy must remain as the free -french territories because the rules should be easy to convert. The ones not labeled free french are Vichy, the free french ones income goto UK and some forces are deployed in both types of areas. I did make some minor changes for Portugal (added one IP)

    Also, you cant cross the Dardanelles unless you control turkey ( land on both sides) this makes a need to attack them or convert as allies. ( more value than normal neutral)

    moved Chicago to other side, added mountains to pacific areas and some more European states.

    Other than Greenland and possibly Brazil/ cuba i think its done.

    edit: all fixed as per new replacement file above.



  • @Imperious:

    Tekkyy please jpeg this or png it for others. I think this will be it for the final version unless i missed something.

    PNG version
    http://www.mediafire.com/?0zcm2cdtcew

    Sahara is “Desert” not “Impassable”.

    I noticed you’ve improved the coast lines or Denmark, Balkan and Turkey.  :mrgreen:

    “Colony of Spain” writing is no longer needed because Spain has its own colour. Like Portugal.

    You’ve create new territories in China. We can check a geographic map and might be able to mark additional “Mountainous”.



  • Thanks for the PNG version.  I appricate it.  By the way nice map.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    OK ill get those fixed.

    I also will redo India and french indo china adding Burma and Belushistan

    I will make Arabia look better and possibly add something for south America as some colony for UK, so they can at least build a infantry

    I will also make the oceans come alive with some memory intensive ‘special something’ that makes the water look real.


  • Customizer

    A few observations:

    China is much better like this; it stops Japan just breezing across it to attack Russia.  I would also make IM and Szechuan mountains.

    Hopei should really be Japanese controlled by 1939.

    Unless I’m confusing it for somewhere else, Almaty is down in the south-east of Kazakhstan.

    I would question the addition of Atlantic islands when this ocean is so small and easily crossed in a turn.

    (You knew this was coming) but R de O really IS in the wrong place. Placing it correctly also means that you have a western sahara territory that is passable (Algeria-RdeO-FWA), but ONLY at the cost of violating Spanish neutrality, which gives the place some meaning at last.

    Here’s the biggie: MOSCOW

    With the German/Soviet border much further west I have to say that the AAR placement of Moscow looks even more absurd.  I know you want to retain the fundamental structure of AAR, but the main reason for placing Moscow in the Urals is lost on a map of this date, so please consider:
    Placing Moscow in the West Russia territory
    Renaming “Russia” as Urals
    Readjusting the IPC income accordingly, i.e. West Russia 8, Urals 2
    You could even divide “Urals” north/south with the southern rump becoming “East Russia”

    Otherwise, it’s going to be awfully difficult for the Germans to get that far, especially since they start on such a relatively low income base.  Of course it puts Moscow 1 space further from Japan, and with the new China the Japanese aren’t going to threaten Moscow for a while; but then this should open up less predicatable (and more historical?) strategies for Japan anyway.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I cant make those changes because:

    1. they either don’t effect the game in any meaningful way are aren’t really historically inaccurate to any measurable degree and

    2. they dramatically effect play balance. The game has to maintain the same integrity when it comes to where ( e.g. how many spaces) territories lay.

    The rules will easily fix any issues with Soviet income ( they will collect none or less until at war much like USA will until they are at war.


  • Customizer

    But Moscow in Europe would still be MORE spaces away from the German front line units, it would effect gameplay in I think a positive way (it makes Moscow attainable for Germany) and it’s a hell of a lot more historically accurate.
    By doing a 1939 scenario you’re entirely destroying any game balance surviving from the AAR version, so why not take the opportunity to put right one of the most obvious absurdities of the game?

    This placing of Moscow where it ain’t seems to be a sacred cow with some folks.

    Perhaps I’m just confused as to what is meant by “Historical Edition”.



  • @Imperious:

    I also will redo India and french indo china adding Burma and Belushistan

    Yeah we made new territories in China. Adding new territory in India would be consistent.

    I will make Arabia look better

    Might as well slightly adjust the Gibraltar coastline too.
    Narrow it so its more obvous like Denmark (strait interdiction).

    Possibly map change…its a bit strange you have to survive thru Gibraltar strait before you can invade it?
    But then if we could adjust the SZ 12/13 boundary it means you can amphibious attack it from US.

    I cant make those changes because:

    You should answer them slowly because Flashman’s point about Spanish neutrality sounds like it has meaningful effect.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    But Moscow in Europe would still be MORE spaces away from the German front line units, it would effect gameplay in I think a positive way (it makes Moscow attainable for Germany) and it’s a hell of a lot more historically accurate.
    By doing a 1939 scenario you’re entirely destroying any game balance surviving from the AAR version, so why not take the opportunity to put right one of the most obvious absurdities of the game?

    You miss the whole point in this: The variant must allow very similar ideas/ strategies and moving MOscow one closer changes ungodly number of things.

    1. the spaces have to be large enough to allow for the pieces on the map ( even if they are double size as OOB)

    2. The OOB playtested rules have already decided that BASED ON THIS MAP MOSCOW NEEDS TO BE IN EXACTLY THE TERRITORY IT IS. Larry and his gang have playtested the map and found this solution. It less relevant if its aesthetically in the incorrect place because playtesting demonstrated the need to keep it X number of territories away from Germany proper. Try to understand this. Moscow was put their for a reason .



  • I think Flashman’s point is that since the game is starting out at 1939, Germany is already father away from Moscow.  And the whole game is going to be different.  The map that was play tested was based off 1942 not 1939.  It may actually be a more balanced game if Moscow is moved one space closer to Germany.  As it is, Germany is the same distance away as Japan is from Moscow in terms of spaces.

    Perhaps play testing needs to be done on this map to determine if Moscow is in the right spot.  I would hate to see the game turn into a battle of Japan vs Russia.  Because if there are less units in the East, the axis may have a much better chance of winning the game if Japan dukes it out with Russia and Germany just fights off France and UK.

    Either way the game is going to be a lot different from starting in 1939 to 1942.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Yea i see that point coming… but i intend to make the rules to be able to be used with many scenarios… not only 1939. I can now make 1940-44 scenarios all changing positions on setups. I suspect the Germans will have some compensation to be able to move forward so that the position of Moscow will be perfect. ( hence I will time the material advantages to allow for this to happen or as Tekkyy would say “to model it”

    I always prefer to model the flow of the game by the rules rather than the map.


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