PD & GD


  • 2007 AAR League

    Where are the PD and GD Forums?!


  • SFO Founder TripleA Admin

    They have been disabled temporarily-to-permanently and that is all that will be said about it for the time being.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Alright … :?



  • Boo….


  • 2007 AAR League

    That’s half the fun of this site 😢


  • SFO Founder TripleA Admin

    Then we must all encourage each other to play nice on the GD and PD forums.

    Until then it’s shut down. Those forums will be back, it may be hours or days but they will be back.


  • 2007 AAR League

    I would also urge everyone to make a concerted effort to raise the level of discourse.  Frankly, the PD forums have been in the gutter for quite a while.  If all anyone can say is “damn __________” [<–------- fill in the blank, usually with the word “liberals”], then what the heck is the point in engaging in a discussion?  Anyone call other people names, but what does that prove?  (Other than extreme immaturity)

    And after all, this place is first and foremost a gaming site.  If people can’t keep their politics into perspective, they potentially ruin the site for everyone else.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Works for me, the level of idiocy on display in the PD has been astronomical for a long time.  I think the entire system should be scrapped, or a better leader be appointed, IMHO.  Someone who can be impartial and keep the forum from turning into an evil conservative/evil liberal slander fest.  One who doesn’t go throwing around big words and accusations of crimes would be stellar.

    Til then, I agree, the PD should be shut down indefinitely.  Just my opinion.  After all, I believe the forum was created when we all began arguing over the 2000 elections before it was confirmed who the President elect was.  Seven years of discussion on it may be enough, no?


  • SFO Founder TripleA Admin

    There are a few options:

    (a) PD & GD never returns
    (b) PD & GD come back as normal
    © PD & GD become an unmoderated free-for-all
    (d) PD & GD become a new, separate website



  • @djensen:

    There are a few options:

    (a) PD & GD never returns
    (b) PD & GD come back as normal
    © PD & GD become an moderated free-for-all
    (d) PD & GD become a new, separate website

    a and d dont seem good to me

    dont get c quite though, but i am for it, at least a slight change in the behaviour and the way we act of each of us



  • @Jennifer:

    Works for me, the level of idiocy on display in the PD has been astronomical for a long time.  I think the entire system should be scrapped, or a better leader be appointed, IMHO.  Someone who can be impartial and keep the forum from turning into an evil conservative/evil liberal slander fest.  One who doesn’t go throwing around big words and accusations of crimes would be stellar.

    well, i assume this has connections with your ban from PD, and speaking of that, why didnt we received any true explanation why you were suspended

    well i would like to( and many other people i think ) know why this happened, if you wish to tell us afcorse 🙂

    -maybe we need someone on PD who want post there, just beam the discussion in the right direction when he sees it flows in the wrong one
    and afcorse cutting all forms of rasicm and hatred towards other people, and all forms of pure insults in its root

    well, thats just one idea


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I was suspended for arguing with a moderator on the public forums instead of privately.

    Anyway, I vote for A or C, assuming C means all the moderators will moderate as they see fit when needed and no one moderator will be ultimately responsible for the entire forum.  The reason i like that idea is because everyone one of us, including the moderators, have political opinions and I have not seen any one of us, including moderators, that can successfully suspend their political opinions and feelings and rule fairly.  So, if we have all the moderators, some conservative, some liberal, some Republican, some Democrat, some Libertarian, some Green, some Communist, some Nazi, whatever, each moderating as they see fit, perhaps the rulings will be less partisan and allow for the forum to regress from slander and name calling and progress toward intellectual debate.



  • @Jennifer:

    I was suspended for arguing with a moderator on the public forums instead of privately.

    Anyway, I vote for A or C, assuming C means all the moderators will moderate as they see fit when needed and no one moderator will be ultimately responsible for the entire forum.  The reason i like that idea is because everyone one of us, including the moderators, have political opinions and I have not seen any one of us, including moderators, that can successfully suspend their political opinions and feelings and rule fairly.  So, if we have all the moderators, some conservative, some liberal, some Republican, some Democrat, some Libertarian, some Green, some Communist, some Nazi, whatever, each moderating as they see fit, perhaps the rulings will be less partisan and allow for the forum to regress from slander and name calling and progress toward intellectual debate.

    well what we ve all tryin to say here
    without insulting and provocations

    i think we are able to do that 😉



  • @djensen:

    There are a few options:

    (a) PD & GD never returns
    (b) PD & GD come back as normal
    © PD & GD become an moderated free-for-all
    (d) PD & GD become a new, separate website

    Would that be © an unmoderated free-for-all?  If it’s no holds barred, then why have any moderation?  I think that sounds good, like a Battle Dome or something.

    (b) Would be appreciative as an interim solution.  I don’t know what making a separate website would accomplish.  It seems people know where they want to be, and if they don’t like the PD & GD climate, they can avoid it.



  • 😢 😢


  • SFO Founder TripleA Admin

    For © I meant unmoderated. Otherwise (b) and © are the same.


  • SFO Founder TripleA Admin

    The problem with the committee style moderation is that sometimes something happens and somebody needs to act on it right away. Putting it to a committee each time slows things down. I guess you could act first and back pedal later. But since moderation is a somewhat time consuming task, whenever there is a question about something in the moderator forum, the stance is to side with whatever has already been done.


    In general, moderation should be a fun hobby not a tedious job. Although, the moderators won’t say so to me, I bet moderating GD & PD seems more like a tedious job than fun hobby. Among other things, the shut down is to give the moderators a break.

    @Jennifer:

    I was suspended for arguing with a moderator on the public forums instead of privately.

    Anyway, I vote for A or C, assuming C means all the moderators will moderate as they see fit when needed and no one moderator will be ultimately responsible for the entire forum.  The reason i like that idea is because everyone one of us, including the moderators, have political opinions and I have not seen any one of us, including moderators, that can successfully suspend their political opinions and feelings and rule fairly.  So, if we have all the moderators, some conservative, some liberal, some Republican, some Democrat, some Libertarian, some Green, some Communist, some Nazi, whatever, each moderating as they see fit, perhaps the rulings will be less partisan and allow for the forum to regress from slander and name calling and progress toward intellectual debate.


  • SFO Founder TripleA Admin

    I added a poll. Please vote. You can vote for more than one option but try not to contradict yourself too much.



  • I’ll respond to these in turn:

    (a) PD & GD never returns

    While this may be the most practical and easiest solution , albeit the sole decision of the site owner, I don’t quite believe that it would be the correct way to solve the problem. The forums themselves aren’t the problem, it is the lack of members’ respect for the rules and for eachother. This is a line all of us have crossed at one point or another. Perhaps one of the solutions would be to lock the GD & PD intermittently to give members time to swallow their ego and calm down a bit. For the most part I believe this sort of method works quite well, provided that moderators continue to moderate appropriatly (as they have so far).

    So my proposed solutions are these:

    -Lay down or repeat concrete rules that members must abide by while in the PD & GD to make sure everyone understande what the boundaries are.

    -Establish a minimum of credibility in any debate. Sources, wherever the source is or acquired from, must be true and factual in all accounts in the debate. (For example, stating that Einstein is a Nazi and bringing up a token website to “prove it” isn’t valid. All of us know that Einstein wasn’t a Nazi and have more than enough ample and reliable sources to use to prove it). Making a sticky of reliable sources (not “approved” by any single moderator in the sense of ones’ political leanings) is a good start of this. After thorough examination a group of moderators (at least 3) may approve and sticky a website as a reliable source (ie. Wikipedia, Dictionary.com) and posting a second sticky citing known unreliable sources (ie. BBC and Reuters) or posting fair warning that said sources aren’t 100% “balanced” (excuse me while I try to stifle my laughter). This will help reduce/eliminate accusations that a weblink a member posts to is merely “BS”. (I know I just opened a can of worms but please play along for a bit right now).

    -Aggressive moderation of outright flaming (Evil Libs/ Evil Conservatives/ Stupid Lazy no good [insert member name]) and notification to all other members of why so-and-so was spanked for X reason. There doesn’t need to be a moderator name associated with who did the spanking. However, this style of moderation stops where facts are concerned, and a more careful approach will be needed when the situation calls for it (possibly a committee of moderators to handle the problem by blacking out a post and then reversing that act once a decision has been made on the nature of the post in question). For example, it is well known that the majority of terrorists that are being fought are followers of the religion of Islam. This isn’t slandering Islam, and it is a fact that should not be silenced in order to be politically correct. If the facts hold water and is not considered hate speech (as per the laws of the U.S. where the host server is based) then the post should be allowed to stand unfiltered and unaltered in order to maintain the integrity of both member and moderator. If the post does NOT hold water however (ie. saying that gravity doesn’t exist because a consensus of scientists said so or X religion/lifestyle is evil but states no factual support as to why that opinion is held), then moderators would be obliged to insert the proper rebuttal (in red text) to that individuals’ post and remind the member that nonsensical/nonfactual/Trolling/Baiting posts aren’t appreciated and ask them to refrain from doing so in the future.

    -In the event that the GD & PD forums become so tiresome of moderating and babysitting and spanking for the mods, that the forums be locked temporarily (a couple days or a week if need be) in order to give the moderators some peace of mind from the field day members are having with eachother.

    -I also encourage the moderators to participate in the GD & PD topics with members a bit more. Part of good moderating is knowing how members express themselves, so as not to misunderstand what a member means when they post something the moderator thinks is offensive. It’s also nice to get to know the moderators on a personal or at least friendly basis, it’s not as if the position of moderators are free from personal ideals or influences. The better members know the moderators, the less the protests will be when a controversial decision is made and the reasons as to why. And if decisions over a post is moderated by at least 3 moderators, there is some guarantee of balanced partiality from all sides. Providing that one of each of the moderators promise to vote Democrat, Republican, and Independent this coming election (just kidding).

    -Members need to be a little more patient with eachother and actually post facts for their argument (they also need to declare when they’re being sarcastic or satirical to help prevent misunderstandings [we need a sarcasm smiley]). Not some obscure saying from a paerson whose name they don’t remember. Petty and undeserved insults contribute better to a bar brawl than it does a forum debate. Go do it at the bar around the corner, not here.

    I know some of my ideas are a bit extreme, but for the most part I believe they’re a good starting point for cleaning up the GD & PD forums.

    (b) PD & GD come back as normal

    Keeping in mind that the current state of affiars is what caused this sort of situation to occur, doing this will solve nothing and merely prolong the problem.

    © PD & GD become an unmoderated free-for-all

    This is one way to kill the GD & PD for sure. It will become so inundated with trolls, flame threads, and pure nonsense that it will eventually be abandoned by the participants, and then closed due to lack of use. If you want to kill it slowly, this is the way to do it.

    (d) PD & GD become a new, separate website

    An idea in and of itself, but it would still need to be properly moderated and members made to play nice. This I believe, is a key issue to resolving this situation.



  • I’d say keep it simple.

    Reiterate the rules, not just those for the PD & GD forum (are there any differences?) in particular.

    Break them, and you are barred.  If you are banned X number of times (3 is a good number), you are permabanned from PD & GD - possibly from the entire site if it’s egregious enough.

    I don’t care about citations unless I want someone to believe my argument, or they are really trying to convince me.  Sometimes discussion is completely subjective.

    The only other problem I see is where the line is actually drawn.  For instance, I’m used to hearing balung say GD liberal every other second, and sadly, am acclimated to it, but someone else might be completely turned away from the site.  Or if I started that, would it be tolerated?

    Maybe even put in a BattleDome Forum that basically says “No whining; go here if you like it hardcore”

    Making a new website doesn’t address the problems of a forum getting out of hand (what happened anyway?) - you still have the same problem just at a new domain.



  • @djensen:

    In general, moderation should be a fun hobby not a tedious job. Although, the moderators won’t say so to me, I bet moderating GD & PD seems more like a tedious job than fun hobby. Among other things, the shut down is to give the moderators a break.

    @Jennifer:

    I was suspended for arguing with a moderator on the public forums instead of privately.

    When I started it WAS fun.  For months though it has been a chore which eats up huge chunks of my free time.  I fully understand why CC previously resigned from the post.

    And to clarify Jen, you were suspended specifically for violating a forum policy which explicitly states that if you have an issue with a moderator ruling on an issue, you take it up with the site owner, admin, or another Mod privately.  Had this not been a formal written forum policy, it would not have been an issue.

    @Jennifer:

    Works for me, the level of idiocy on display in the PD has been astronomical for a long time.  I think the entire system should be scrapped, or a better leader be appointed, IMHO.  Someone who can be impartial and keep the forum from turning into an evil conservative/evil liberal slander fest.  One who doesn’t go throwing around big words and accusations of crimes would be stellar.

    We actually have SEVERAL moderators of the PD forums, I have just been the only one willing to invest the time necessary read all the crap that gets posted.  And believe me, i have read more BS in the last year since I became a Mod than I ever needed.  If folks want a new mod, fine, but THAT decision is up to the site Owner and Admin.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Yahoshua

    I have to disagree with your whole approach.  It’s all these rules that brought us to this point.

    Political discussion, by it’s very nature, elicits the passions of americans, it’s what makes our nation great.  The whole purpose of the 1st ammendment was to protect political speech no matter how aggregious we find it.  The Supreme Court is still wrestiling with these issues even today, expecting a moderator to decide them is folly.

    The political boards should be unrestricted in content, the moderator should confine their rulings to posts that violate “actual” laws which would expose the site to legal action, such as copy right infingment, Slander, or Libel.

    Peoples opinions are just that.  As the saying goes, opinons are like assholes…everyone has one.



  • And to clarify Jen, you were suspended specifically for violating a forum policy which explicitly states that if you have an issue with a moderator ruling on an issue, you take it up with the site owner, admin, or another Mod privately.  Had this not been a formal written forum policy, it would not have been an issue.<<

    Switch, being on the outside looking in I realize that perhaps I missed some of what happened. But what I saw was a long thread where both you and Jen were arguing over the value of the markets and to the degree they had risen during the current president’s term, with both of you choosing different dates and means of interpreting the numbers, both to fit your particular political view points. Nothing wrong with that, mind you.

    But what “seems” to have happened next was that you put in your last word, then closed the thread. Jen then got in “trouble” for posting on the subject again my opening new threads.

    Not really fair for you to engage in an argument, sneak in a final word, then lock out the person you were arguing with from responding. It was an abuse of your position, given your intimate involvement in the argument that was going on.  It was like saying your final word, then using your position of power to shut up the opposing view.

    I have no problem with the thread being closed and if some other moderator had made the decision independently that would be fine. But the situation just looked wrong the way it worked out.

    Maybe these sections need two active moderators so the “other” one can moderate when needed when the first one is too intimately engaged on the discussion?

    Ryan S. Johnson
    Guild of Blades Publishing Group
    http://www.guildofblades.com
    http://www.1483online.com
    http://www.thermopylae-online.com



  • JSP:
    The rules pretty much ARE restricted to actual criminal actions, unless you think handling an issue you have with a Mod by contacting an admin or another mod is too much, or unless you want a pure unadulterated flame fest, in which case there are many, many other forums to fill that need.

    And GOB:
    It was a plagiarized post that caused the issue, and it is not the first time plagiarism (i.e. copyright violation) has been an issue with Jen’s posts.  She was previously suspended for plagiarism earlier this year.

    These are the forum rules as posted for PD.  (copy and pasted direct from the PD Rules thread)

    Political Discussion Forum Policies and Rules:

    Political Discussion venue of the AxisandAllies.org web site is NOT A&A related.  It exists as a courtesy to the forum users to allow the discussion of non-Axis and Allies topics.  Abuse of this forum will not be tolerated.  Excessive problems caused by the use of the forum can result in the removal of users from the forum, as well as temporary or permanent closure of the forum.

    This forum is to diuscuss all matters regarding politics, religion, policy, current events, or other similar issues.

    The following are are prohibited:
    1.  Ad Hominum attacks.  Discussing issues and disagreeing with an issue is permitted.  Personal attacks are not.

    2.  Flaming is explicitly prohibited.  A flame is considered a blatant and ill-intentioned attack on a fellow forum member for a particular post or viewpoint posted by that forum member. The use of racial slurs, open racism, or advocacy of genocide based on race are considered flames against an entire group and are thus prohibited.  Whether a comment is a flame or not is up to the discretion of the moderators.

    3.  Flame Baiting is explicitly prohibited. Baiting is a comment intended to draw a fellow forum member into making a flame. Whether a comment is baiting will be up to the discretion of the moderators.

    4.  All posts are subject to the laws of the United States of America.  As such, any activity or post which violates those laws is explicitly prhobited.  This would include, but is not limitted to:  violation of copyright laws, slander/libel, terroristic threats, fraud, criminal solicitation, etc.

    5.  Questionable posts should be reported.  In the event you see a post that you feel may be a violation of any of the above policies, or is otherwise detrimental to the forum, you are asked to NOT respond publicly via posting to any thread or post, but to use the “Report to Moderator” link that is at the bottom right of every post made to the forums.

    The Moderators of this site have exclusive and final authority as to what constitutes a violation.

    Questions regarding any of these policies should be directed to any of the site moderators.  Questions regarding any decision of a moderator should be directed to site co-owner Yanny.

    I do not see a problem with those rules for what SHOULD be a rational and reasoned discussion that is a SIDE TOPIC AREA for a group of GAMERS.

    And to be honest, after re-reading the rules, I have let a HECK of a lot slide by over the past several months that should NOT have been permitted to let stand.



  • BTW:  All bold, italics, etc. are exactly as shown in the PD Rules topic


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