Japan Help



  • Ok, in my Axis and Allies game me and 4 others always play the same countries and I play Japan.  I need alittle help deciding what first attacks to make and was going to see if my strategy is about right to counter my opponents opening moves.

    Here is the synopsis from last game (this may not be the same everytime, but if they do this again I was wanting input on what to do).

    Advantages:
    Russia - Lend Lease
    Germany - Wolf Pack
    Britain - Free Complex: Place in Australia (Does Britain not have the best advantages??)
    Japan - Bonzai Troops
    USA - Bomber AA immunity

    Russia first turn:

    Buys 8 Inf.

    Combat
    Attacks West Russia, taking it from Germany.
    Can’t remember now but I think they also take Belorussia.

    Non-Combat
    Fortifies Caucasus with Kazakh Inf.
    Sends Fighter to Egypt.
    Sends Fighter to India.
    Fortifies Buryatia with 6 Inf.
    Sends 4 Inf to Russia from Novosibirsk and Evenki.
    Moves Sub from SZ4 to SZ2

    Places 4 Inf in Caucasus & 4 in Russia.

    Germany first turn: (Didn’t do this last game but this is my idea for the next time.)

    Buy 1 AC and 8 Inf.

    Combat
    Pick Up Inf and Tank from Souther Europe on SZ14 Transport.
    Attack Destroyer in SZ15 with Battleship and Transport.
    Unload troops into Egypt and attack with 2 Inf, 2 Armor, 2 Fighters(Balkans & Ukraine).
    Attack Battleship in SZ13 with 2 Fighters, Bomber, Sub.
    Retake Belorussia (If taken).
    Attack Karelia with 3 Inf (maybe more from Norway), 3 Tanks, 1 Fighter.

    Non-Combat
    Move Algeria troops to Libya, also land 2 fighters there.
    Reinforce West Europe and Ukraine.

    Place AC in SZ5 with 2 Fighters on it, Place 8 Inf in Germany.

    Britain first turn:

    Buys 1Transport, 1 Fighter, 1 Tank, 1 Inf, 1 Art.

    Combat
    Possible Norway attack with 2 Inf, 2 Tanks, 2 Fighters, 1 Bomber and Battleship Clearing Shot.
    Or possible attack in Algeria.

    Non-Combat
    Move 1 Inf from Persia to Trans-Jordan.
    Combines fleet in SZ38 - 1 AC, 2 Transports, 1 Sub, 1 Fighter, 1 Destroyer.
    Move South Africa Inf to Rhodesia.

    Places 1 Transport in SZ38, 1 Tank in Australia, 1 Inf, 1 Art and 1 Fighter in Britain.

    Japan first turn:

    Ok, I want to buy 2 Transports 1 Fighter and 1 Inf or 3Transports and 2 Inf or 2 Transports 1 Inf 1 Art and save the rest.

    Combat
    I usually hit Pearl Harbor but with the British fleet amassed at Australia and with the complex I have to hit that fleet.  So I send 1 Battleship, 2 AC, 4 Fighter, 1 Destroyer to attack.  Lots of casualites on both sides here 😞

    Attack Buryatia with 5 Inf (Bringing 2 from Philippine Islands) , 1 Tank, 1 Fighter and Battleship clearing shot.
    Attack China with 5 Inf 1 Fighter 1 Bomber
    Leave FIC open (With no Complex in India it may draw out a unit from there and would be easily taken back, although that would give the Brits 3 more IPC).

    Non-Combat
    Bring Sub up to SZ60 (Should have 1 Battleship, 4-5 Transports and 1 Sub on USA’s turn there).

    Place Transports in SZ60 and land Units in Japan.

    This is the best I think I can do although I hate attacking the Brit fleet.  Last time I had horrible luck and scored no hits the first round.  It continued till he had only his AC left.

    If there is anything anyone can add, please do.
    Thanks



  • Hi Adymar Tyranis,

    If you look in the past threads on this forum there are many interesting discussion about Japan Strategies (for example “Strategy for Japan and how long does it take to drive to moscow”)

    They do not address your specific situation, but are still interesting to read, because regards overall Japan strategies. Japan strategies is aimed to put the much pressure is possible on Russia shoulder, while using its mighty fleet to keep UK and USA at bay. If they want to spend money in the Pacific, let them do that, while Japan Army run for Moscow and Germany build up with less opr none problems!

    Regarding your specific situation, in my humble opinion, the UK strategy of your adversary is suboptimal, at least regarding the first move against Japan.
    UK on first turn may sink Japan TRN in SZ59 and reinforce Pearl Harbour fleet with a fighter. Your situation, then, could be even worst than which you described.
    But, for your specifica case, I definitely attach China and Buratya as you do. For the sea strategy, I think that using BB to bombard Buratya prevents a full strengh attack on Pearl Harbour, but you may send the DD, the SUB and some fighter with the Bomber maybe (not sending it to Buratya).
    The other naval forces should regroup preparinng to argue with UK fleet.
    This is only my personal idea, maybe others on this forum may say something more interesting and more correct to you!


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Submarine, Destroyer, 3 Fighters, Bomber to SZ 52

    If Russia is silly neough to stack Buryatia, obliterate it.  6 Less infnatry Germany has to deal with later.  Otherwise, hit China with 2/3 fighters and 3-5 infantry.

    You will probably need transports, so get at least 2, if not 3.  Don’t worry about filling them, you can plunder 4 infantry from SZ 60 (2 X Philippines, 1 X Okinawa and 1 X Wake).

    Should help you out.

    As for Australia, that’s easily contained.  Unless they are aiming at a Kill Japan First strategy.  In which case, DO NOT LET YOUR BUDDY BUILD A CARRIER!  Biggest waste of resource I’ve seen Germany do!  Instead, I recommend 10 infantry, 2 tanks.  If England wants to suicide fighters agianst your fleet, so what?  Instead, you have a lot of firepower on Russia who starts out numbered and starts with much less income then you.

    In KJF, I would like to see a Moscow capitulation by Round 6.  In KGF (Kill Germany), I like to see a Moscow capitulation by Round 10.



  • Thanks

    Yeah Romulus I have read almost all the threads here dealing with Japan, that’s were I got most of my ideas from.

    So, you think the Germany AC is a bad idea then Jenn?  Prior to the last game we played the Allies had been going after Germany, but last game they came after me first.

    My gut tells me to hit the Brit fleet before the US ships at Pearl because with the Complex there he can keep making naval units plus he can start taking the Islands.  If I hit that force first, I can probably deal with US later.  Hopefully he won’t get so lucky again next game and start with a free complex…grrrrrrr  Then again, it might be best to take out the small US fleet with little loss and worry about Brits ships later.  I just fear it will become a Naval fight and I’ll have to waste IPC on replacing ships and making more to hold my on over there.

    Thanks again for the input.

    I really wish Japan had better advantages.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    You want England pumping out ships in the Pacific!  Oh my goodness, I’d be ecstatic if the English were dumping 16 IPC + into naval vessels in Australia!  That effectively removes England from Germany.

    Also, America is in a much better position to build in the Pacific.  For one, most of your navy starts in the Pacific anyway. (You have 1 destroyer, 2 transports in the Atlantic, 2 rounds from the Pacific.) Also, America earns more then Japan.  England will earn significantly less in most games.

    Now, as for the carrier in SZ 5, I honestly and truthfully feel it is not a good idea.

    I believe this for a number of reasons.

    1. You already feel attached to the SZ 5 fleet.  Building a carrier will only make you feel more attached for little, if any gain.)
    2. What are you defending against?  2 Fighters, 1 Bomber.  Now, if you make your Order Of Loss (OOL) Submarine, Submarine, Transport, Destroyer, you stand a very good chance of killing all three aircraft and a reasonably decent chance of still having a destroyer left afterwards. However, realistically, you can expect to kill two fighters and lose everything.  England now has no air force in England and you’ve lost nothing you did not already expect to lose.
    3. You also gain with the opportunity cost.  England is now using their fighters in SZ 5 instead of productively.  Meanwhile, you have your forces stationed and ready to jump on Russia towards your ultimate goal of Moscow!
    4. At the start of the game you already out numbered Russia 231 to 130, 56% lead.  That does not sound like much until you also add in that you have 40 IPC coming and he only has 24 IPC coming this round.  Assuming you lose Ukraine and W. Russia and he loses Ukraine and Karelia, you should be reduced to 213 to 111.

    The goal, I believe, is to make Russia keep trading you units until you out number them 3:1.  If they are going KJF, you should be able to do this quickly as you gain more and more units and Russia gains less and less.



  • Very good points.

    I see what you are saying.

    If you’re playing Japan, what do you usually do with your fleet?  Do you hit Pearl Harbor then fortify in SZ60 or something else?

    Also, in your opinion, what do you think the best Japan and German advantages are?



  • I don’t know building an AC in SZ05 is a move that I like!
    I agree with you that it has for sure the disadvantages that you described.
    But it has also same advantages. I have played Germany in some games and I bought 1 AC and 8 INF fon G1.
    After taking, Karelia and Ukraina on Eastern front, conquered Egypt (wiping that pesky UK fighter), and sunk the mediterranean BB, i found me in a very good position.
    I may use the baltic TRN to ferry INFs directly in Karelia or even in Norway (on G2 I bought another TRN).
    UK must be careful and watch for the spectre of Sealion, so stay at home, do not tries early landings in Africa or in Norway and do not send aircrafts in Russia.
    USA send fighter and land unit to UK instead of Africa or Russia.
    The two fighter on the AC are able to combat in Russia every turn in the ebb and flow of the Eastern Front.
    Russia was leaved all alone to sustain Axis onslaught.
    My Japanese Buddy blittzkrieg hit hard Russia back and Allied situation goes wrong every turn. Finally I used all my fleet to attack together with Luftwaffe the USA-UK fleet losing all my ships but wiping away all of them TRN and the British BB, leaving only the USA AC and a couple of Fighter.
    So USA-UK was not able to land troop in Europe for a couple of turn, and I redirect all of my unit toward Russia that was conquered with a classic 1-2 German-Japan punch.
    So we won the match.
    Maybe we do not won for the German AC… maybe our Allied opponent (it was a 2 vs 2 match) was not able to counter.
    In my opinion they was, maybe, too much cautios, and took too much time prior to counterattack in Africa and Then in Norway (it was UK3-US3 that they landed in Norway or even UK4-US4 i do not remember).
    So German AC may not be an optimal move, may have for sure some disadvantages, but may create problem if the Allied do not handle it in a correct manner.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Well, Romulus, it all kinda depends on the bid.  However, generally speaking, England reclaims Egypt on UK 1.  Also, without a carrier build, you might avoid the allies landing in Algeria in force and thus forcing you to forget Africa all together.  Without 4 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 2 Armor in Algeria (50/50 UK/USA) Germany is more readily able to reclaim Egypt again.

    However, if you put a carrier in the water in SZ 5, what happens?  It sits there indefinately, tieing up two fighters you could use to defend W. Europe, E. Europe, whatever.  When the allies are good and ready, they’ll move in and sink your fleet without loss or with extremely light losses, and usually the losses are to America not England because America usually can afford them.

    Dunno.  It might work against greener veterans.  But I don’t forsee any hard hitters using the tactic anymore.  SS, Switch, JSP, myself, JWW, Gamer and a few others I’ve been tracking have dropped it outright, I never see them use it anymore. (Not that they don’t, I just dont see it.)


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Admiral:

    I’m going to pretend that the British attack on SZ 45 was inconclusive (both submarines missed.)

    In this case, I submerge my Japanese submarine.  I want it for Pearl if I can have it.

    I attack SZ 52 (Pearl) with Destroyer, 3 Fighters, Submarine and a Bomber.  The destroyer is the key, it prevents the American submarine from escaping!  This seemed light to me at first, then I ran the numbers, this is VERY effective.

    The other three fighters, two battleships, 2 carriers and transport I use to either take Buryatia (if Russia was stupid enough to stack 6 infantry there) or take China and buryatia.

    I have learned to be restrained with Japan.  You do not need to take Buryatia, China and India in Round 1.  Much better to set up a Battleship, Carrier, 2 Fighters and a Transport in SZ 36, take China (or Buryatia or both if Bury is empty), and kill the American fleet in SZ 52.

    Another option is to have your Battleship in SZ 60 and SZ 50 with a carrier at each location.  Gives you strike at every one of your islands and at Pearl. (Can even attack SZ 55 with fighters if you want too.)



  • @Jennifer:

    Dunno.  It might work against greener veterans.  But I don’t forsee any hard hitters using the tactic anymore.  SS, Switch, JSP, myself, JWW, Gamer and a few others I’ve been tracking have dropped it outright, I never see them use it anymore. (Not that they don’t, I just dont see it.)

    True, I have been experimenting with Med Fleet navy rather than Baltic of late.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    @Jennifer:

    Dunno.  It might work against greener veterans.  But I don’t forsee any hard hitters using the tactic anymore.  SS, Switch, JSP, myself, JWW, Gamer and a few others I’ve been tracking have dropped it outright, I never see them use it anymore. (Not that they don’t, I just dont see it.)

    True, I have been experimenting with Med Fleet navy rather than Baltic of late.

    A transport bid in SZ 14 can be downright deadly.



  • Jennifer and Ncscswitch,

    I see your point of view. Consider, however, the fact that I and my friends are still green at A&A.
    As I said the apparently good behaving of the German AC maybe due to our inexperience as Allied to counter that move.

    I’d like to make some considerations, give me your opinion, please.

    I think that having a fleet in Baltic, allows German to build TRN (to carry troops in Norway or Karelia or to menace an invasion of England).
    Moreover German can build some U-Boote to be used in counterattaking UK/US Fleet using Aircraft and U-Boote as fodder, so avoiding losses to Luftwaffe. My idea is not to grab Sea supremacy from allies but to sink TRN and disrupt landing of unit in Norway.
    Without an existing fleet in Baltic every sub built will be destroyed soon after its launch.

    In my opinion the problem is that loosing the Baltic Fleet, leaves Gemran open to invasion, and it is another territory to be defended using also aircraft, so probably the two planes on the Carrier should be used in Germany and can not be used in Western Europe. Moreover its necessary to have a stack of infantry in Germany so its necessary to purchase enough INF every turn to deploy in Germany replacing the units moved to the eastern front and to France. Moreover a strike in Germany, even a failed one, may “insert a bubble in the pipeline” of reinforcement.
    Finally, without sea unit every counterattack on th UK/US navy has to be made only with air unit and I dislike to loose aircraft with Germany.

    This are my consideration that may be consequences of my inexperience and casued by an erroneous overall Axis strategy.
    I have noted, for example, that the more the Japan presses on Russia, the more US and UK try to react making sub optimal moves as employing units in Africa or in Pacific losing focus from the KGF strategy that is normally used in our games.
    So the answer to my problem with Germany maybe… Japan coming to help!?!?!?!



  • @Jennifer:

    Admiral:

    I’m going to pretend that the British attack on SZ 45 was inconclusive (both submarines missed.)

    In this case, I submerge my Japanese submarine.  I want it for Pearl if I can have it.

    I attack SZ 52 (Pearl) with Destroyer, 3 Fighters, Submarine and a Bomber.  The destroyer is the key, it prevents the American submarine from escaping!  This seemed light to me at first, then I ran the numbers, this is VERY effective.

    The other three fighters, two battleships, 2 carriers and transport I use to either take Buryatia (if Russia was stupid enough to stack 6 infantry there) or take China and buryatia.

    I have learned to be restrained with Japan.  You do not need to take Buryatia, China and India in Round 1.  Much better to set up a Battleship, Carrier, 2 Fighters and a Transport in SZ 36, take China (or Buryatia or both if Bury is empty), and kill the American fleet in SZ 52.

    Another option is to have your Battleship in SZ 60 and SZ 50 with a carrier at each location.  Gives you strike at every one of your islands and at Pearl. (Can even attack SZ 55 with fighters if you want too.)

    I must be missing something, but were are your fighters that you’re hitting Pearl with land?



  • The one that started in SZ50 can land on Wake. 
    The other 2 can land on the SZ50 AC if it is moved to any of these sea zones:  44, 45, 51, 57; or even NCM the AC to SZ52 after the battle if you want.



  • @ncscswitch:

    The one that started in SZ50 can land on Wake. 
    The other 2 can land on the SZ50 AC if it is moved to any of these sea zones:  44, 45, 51, 57; or even NCM the AC to SZ52 after the battle if you want.

    Hmm, my friends and I must be conducting Fighter movement all wrong then at Sea.  We took it that the Carriers act as Islands and it takes one movement to depart from one and one to land back on it.

    So Fighters don’t use a movement to leave or land on a Carrier?



  • That is correct, they do NOT need movement to leave an AC.

    FIG movement is moving from territory to territory, and that includes leaving an island territory for the sea zone territory surrounding it, because the island and the sea zone are both separate territories.

    But a carrier is IN the sea zone, and a FIG taking off from it is also in the same sea zone, no change in territory means ZERO movement to “take off”.



  • @ncscswitch:

    That is correct, they do NOT need movement to leave an AC.

    FIG movement is moving from territory to territory, and that includes leaving an island territory for the sea zone territory surrounding it, because the island and the sea zone are both separate territories.

    But a carrier is IN the sea zone, and a FIG taking off from it is also in the same sea zone, no change in territory means ZERO movement to “take off”.

    Ah, well that changes a few things then to how we play…lol  Learn something new everyday.



  • Also Jenn, what about my question on what you think is the best starting advantages for Germany and Japan?  This goes for anyone else who wants to add thier input.



  • I presume that you are speaking of National Advantages when you say starting advantages.

    Considering that generally NA in the original A&A Rules are considered flawed and unbalanced, favoring too much the allies, I will consider only NA stated in Larry Harris Tournament Rules.

    For Japan my preferred NA is Banzai Attack and IMHO is also the best NA for Japan. However I like also Most Powerful Battleship… Yamato and Musashi have always fascinated me!

    For Germany my favour is for Atlantic Wall, INF defending at 3, even if only for the first turn of an amphibious landing, is very useful.



  • There are times when Kaitens can come in handy for Japan… especially in a KJF.  Most Powerful Battleships is definitely a great one for Japan, probably their single best.

    Atlantic Wall is good, but so is dive bombers for Germany.  Most of the German naval NA’s are worthless.

    And o course Colonial Garrison for UK and Superfortresses for USA, and I always like Russian Winter.

    Bear in mind these are impressions of someone who has not played a single game with NA’s.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Adimar:

    Also Jenn, what about my question on what you think is the best starting advantages for Germany and Japan?  This goes for anyone else who wants to add thier input.

    You know, I am rather hesitant to declare best starting advantages for any nation because there are so many instances where one advantage works wonderfully to neutralize another advantage.  The best part of advantages is that they force the game to change drastically.

    With that said, I like Tokyo express if you are in a Kill Japan First.  Super Battleships (LHTR) is freaking awesome too, almost a guarenteed hit.  Stratofortresses in OOB are game breaking, you’ll win no matter what with that advantage.  Mechanized Infantry is good too.  Mobil Complexes have been fun.  Dive bombers are really handy!


  • 2007 AAR League

    @Jennifer:

    @Adimar:

    Also Jenn, what about my question on what you think is the best starting advantages for Germany and Japan?  This goes for anyone else who wants to add thier input.

    You know, I am rather hesitant to declare best starting advantages for any nation because there are so many instances where one advantage works wonderfully to neutralize another advantage.  The best part of advantages is that they force the game to change drastically.

    With that said, I like Tokyo express if you are in a Kill Japan First.  Super Battleships (LHTR) is freaking awesome too, almost a guarenteed hit.  Stratofortresses in OOB are game breaking, you’ll win no matter what with that advantage.  Mechanized Infantry is good too.  Mobil Complexes have been fun.  Dive bombers are really handy!

    In one game I played with my friends, I got absolutely nuked as the Russians because my friend pretty much used his fighters to devastating effect EVERYWHERE!!!


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Hurts that the Axis start with 12 fighters, 2 bombers between two nations, don’t it?  (I’d count the allied ones, but most of those are destroyed on Round 1. :P)

    I believe the trick is to force the Axis to break up their fighter formations over multiple territories, OR, attack territories with AA Guns.  Though, I am always happy when I can take ou German Panzers even if I cannot get their Stutkas.


Log in to reply
 

20th Anniversary Give Away

In January 2000 this site came to life and now we're celebrating our 20th Anniversary with a prize giveaway of 30+ prizes. See this link for the list of prizes and winners.
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys
T-shirts, Hats, and More

Suggested Topics

  • 15
  • 65
  • 28
  • 3
  • 2
  • 1
  • 29
  • 3
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

70
Online

14.9k
Users

35.6k
Topics

1.5m
Posts