• Um…

    Just FYI:  The United States is NOT a Democracy.

    We are a Federated Republic (at least that is what we are SUPPOSED to be)  ARguably that could also be said to be a Democratic Federated Republic.  Either way that is dramatically different from a Democracy.


  • Ive always been satisfied with being a Democratic Republic.


  • @ncscswitch:

    Um…

    Just FYI:  The United States is NOT a Democracy.

    We are a Federated Republic (at least that is what we are SUPPOSED to be)  ARguably that could also be said to be a Democratic Federated Republic.  Either way that is dramatically different from a Democracy.

    The US is an oligarchy. They just brainwash the children in school to think it’s a democracy.


  • Oh, and for the record, the number one reason for the Confederate states leaving was their feelings of inadequacy. Lincoln’s election showed them that they were powerless against the Northern states. He didn’t carry a single electoral vote in the South. He didn’t appear on most Southern state’s ballots. He still won the election. When the South saw that, they were convinced they would never be able to get anything they wanted from the Northern dominated federal government. Slavery became an issue mostly to keep the more liberal Europeans out of the war and to appease the abolishonists. Now as far as the direct cause of the Civil War, I’d have to go with attacking Ft Sumter. However, I think war would have come one way or another.

  • 2007 AAR League

    @M36:

    Slavery was certainly a bone of contention between the North and South, but not one that could drive men to war. A million men do not take up arms and fight for 5 years over something they do not own. Same goes for the North.

    Slavery was the symptom.

    The issue was state rights versus federal rights.

    Before the CW, states actually maintained armies and navies.  States were sovereign entities that negotiated with each other through the Federal government.  After the CW, states became subordinate to the dictates of the federal government and the military was federalized.

    Today, federal law directly impacts areas of life that would have been unthinkable prior to the CW and states have lost a great deal of their authority in dealing with the problems and concerns of their local populations.

    For example, federal laws are directly effecting the day to day curriculum taught to our children.  That is so far beyond the initial scope of the Federal Constitution it is mind boggling.


  • dictates or dictatorship?  :wink:

    The Constitution isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. The Civil War took care of a lot of that. FDR took it a lot further. Bush is taking it to even further extremes. Other presidents are guilty, but those three and Lincoln were/are the worst violators of the Constitution. The Constitution is a great idea. I would love to see this country follow it. Unfortunately it is now only a myth they teach in schools.


  • @Ddraiglais:

    dictates or dictatorship?  :wink:

    The Constitution isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. The Civil War took care of a lot of that. FDR took it a lot further. Bush is taking it to even further extremes. Other presidents are guilty, but those three and Lincoln were/are the worst violators of the Constitution. The Constitution is a great idea. I would love to see this country follow it. Unfortunately it is now only a myth they teach in schools.

    you know what i’d rather have a big federal government than a slave master but thats just me.


  • Slavery wasn’t even an issue until later in the war, and it had nothing to do with freeing the slaves for any moral purpose. There were two main reasons for the Emancipation Proclamation. 1-To disrupt the South’s economy because of the thousands of slaves that would escape to the Union’s lines. 2-To keep Europe out of the war. Europeans were addicted to American cotton. Britain and France supported the South. However, once the reasons for the war included slavery; the more enlightened Europeans no longer supported the South.

    Also worth noting is that the EP did nothing to free slaves in loyal border states.

    Another thing worthy of note is the majority of Northerners didn’t want the blacks. When they decided to free the slaves in D.C., Lincoln looked for places to resettle them. They looked for places in Latin America to send the slaves once they were freed. The newly freed slaves in D.C. rioted when they heard the news. The representatives trying to sell Lincoln land were scam artists. The idea was eventually scrapped.

    Slavery was also going to die anyway. In the Northern parts of the South it had already become unprofitable to keep slaves. Tobacco was dying. Many slave owners in the Upper South were freeing their slaves leading up to the Civil War. I really don’t think the institution of slavery would have lasted much longer if the Confederacy had won the war or if the US just let them leave peacefully.

  • 2007 AAR League

    GO UNION. You showed them whose boss.


  • Sadly, the video was removed.  Is there a reposting somewhere?


  • funny how slaverly was explicity cited and protected in the confed constitution if it had little to do with the reason they split.


  • That was a “stick it in their eye” statement that was put in by the wealthy land owners.

    But even in 1861, automation was making slaves obsolete and more expensive than machinery.


  • what other issues did the south site as to proof of the fed overstepping the bounds…or did they say were going to overstep their bounds.


  • Industrialization was a major factor.  “Nationalism” at the state level was also a factor.  Simple economics (note the rail lines that existed in the US in 1860, where they were, where most of them were, and what directions they ran) may have been the greatest factor.

    Slavery, like Abortion today, was simply an emotional trigger, a way to incite one side or the other about a certain issue.  And like Abortion today, there were few in the north or south who were radical nutballs on the extremes of the issue.


  • Industrialization was bound to kill slavery.  however there were enough radicals in both parties to make it a major issue in the conventions.  so much so in the Charlestown convention that democrats were willing to lose the election rather than nominate stephan douglas who was THE states rights candidate.

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