• Here is a concept I am trying to introduce into my Operation Market Garden board I’m making.

    I have placed sandbags in some spaces that require a cover role like other obstacles. The difference is the sand bags only apply to units directly behind them. For example I have two soldiers in the space with the sand bags protecting them. Then I have a ART unit behind that space that’s fair game for the other side to attack with no cover roll.

    My logic behind this is a soldier behind sandbags is going to use this to there advantage, and make a smaller silhouette. ART will only place a gun behind sandbags if it has cover. Any other ARM units don’t typically like to stay in the open if it can be helped and also take cover.

    Do you guys think I should scrap the idea or make it only apply to soldiers or are there any other suggestions?

    -LT04


  • I think it would be a good idea, but I don’t know if armor should get any sort of bonus from it.

    Also, unlike pillboxes, I don’t think units behind a sandbag should get +1 to cover rolls either.

    Other than that, I agree that it would make your scenario pretty interesting!


  • I think they should also count as double cost terain. I mean come on its going to have to take some finangleing to get around them.

    -LT04


  • If you look at the two German units Machine Gun Team and  Sandbagged-Machine Gun Team the difference bewteen them is a +1/+1 defense.  Why not keep it consistant with existing uses of sandbags?  Just a thought…

    Mot


  • Thats an intersting concept, thanks.

    -LT04


  • Since we’ve gone that route, I think that either side should be able to switch from a sandbagged MG team to a non-sandbagged MG team, and vice versa.  'Cuz if the Allies don’t have the ability to sandbag their MGs, then the Germans could have an MG team with 6/6 defense!  (Factoring in the same aforementioned rule, of course)


  • Yeah, I don’t like the idea of a double sand bag bonus. I would have to say you max out at the +1.

    -LT04


  • Well, your elite infantry (Rangers and SS-Panzagrenadier for example) can also be 6/6 as long as they stay in the hex.  Them’s the breaks, I don’t see a problem with it.

    If you think it’s too powerful then here are some additional ideas:

    1.  The Sandbagged MG Team also has the SA of “Dug in: Cannot Move”.  Just exempt dug-in units from gaining the effects of the Sandbags fortification.

    2.  Like the Pillbox fortification, the defensive bonus only applies to one unit.

    3.  Have the defense bonus only apply to Attacks from Range 1 or more.  Makes sense, if you are attcking a sand-bagged unit you are going to flank around the sand bags or otherwise hit it from an advantages vantage point.

    Mot


  • It’s not a double-bonus, the German Sandbagged MG Team just has a defense of 5/5.  It’s not a SA or anything like that.

    @losttribe04:

    Yeah, I don’t like the idea of a double sand bag bonus. I would have to say you max out at the +1.

    -LT04


  • What I meant was the German sandbag MG team should only get the benefit of one set of sand bags.

    -LT04


  • I know, I’m just saying I don’t see how you can exclude one type of 5/5 unit while allowing another, all based on the name of a unit.  That’s why I had suggested the “No benefiit is granted to units with the Dug In special ability”.  I though it sounded more professional than “No benefiit is granted to units with the word Sandbag in their name”.  Just semantics really.

    What I wonder is what is a +1/+1 on defense worth in points?


  • OK I see whay your saying. Yeah whats good for the goose has to be good for the gander.

    -Lt04


  • I just think Sandbagged MGs should not get the bonus because they are already sandbagged.  I don’t know if you can enhance something’s defense that much just by stacking more rows of sandbags in front of it.

    Elite units, however, are not already sandbagged, so it’s OK if they get the bonus.  And I also think that the “Dug-in” SA shouldn’t be the deciding factor, because depot units should benefit from it too.


  • Yeah I could go look, but does any one know (who could save me the time) how many sand bag units there already are in the game? I just ask b/c if there are only a few that would change how I feel about the sand bag bonus.

    -LT04


  • There is only one real unit with the “Dug In” ability…though support “units” (if can call them units) like Ammoo Dump are also Dug In because they cannot move.

    There are a couple of units with “Enthrenched” which is the same defensive bonus until they move.  The Canadian Entrenched Antitank Gun is such a unit and it’s a sweet looking mini and has the sandbags stacked in front of it.  The other one I know of is the Fortress Defender, a weak 2pt German soldier unit.

    Mot


  • Hmm,

    Well I would have to say that I wouldn’t mind allowing all units get the +1/+1 sand bag bonus. I’m not saying I like the idea of a double sand bag team, but I think it’s easier to keep things less complicated.

    -LT04


  • Even if depot units DO get the bonus, in the case of the Fuel Depot and the Ammo Dump, there is a chance it will get destroyed, regardless of its defense.

    But for the sake of the HQ, how awesome would it be to have it sitting in a pillbox, completely surrounded by sandbags…
    +1/+1 defense, AND +1 on cover rolls!  🙂


  • You bring up a good point should sandbags give a +1/+1 on defense and/or cover rolls?

    -LT04


  • Well the pillbox gives the +1 to cover rolls.  The question is, can you use two fortifications in the same hex.  I think the answer is no, but I’d have to look it up to be sure.

    Mot


  • Realistically, I don’t think the HQ should receive both bonuses, because the pillbox is simply NOT that big in real life, that the HQ would actually benefit from both.


  • @Labia:

    Wow   It sounds lovely and I really have no idea on the sand.   The glue may work.  Are you thinking of mixing some sand in with glue and painting it on?   Im wondering if you would have to seal it with something.

    I went to a hobby shop and found some that were intended for train models.

    LT

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