• I was wondering what people’s thoughts are on JPN threatening the USA by either J2 or J3.  My thoughts are as follows on J1 purchase a transports ect. as normal.  Attack pearl harbour but move the ACC to the sea zone behind wake island instead of into hawaii.  use the transport in sz 60 to do an amphibious assault on wake island and obviously protect it.    On J2 you could have your fighters from the ACC in the SZ behind wake island as well as the troops on Wake attack the americans at western USA.  Your ships at Pearl could hopefully wipe out the US fleet or in the alternative onto Alaska to threaten the USA at home.  You move the 2nd BB to closer to the USA setting up an amphibiious assault.

    My thought process is really to use this threat as a help to Germany as the Americans will have to keep troops at home to defend the threat.

    By J3  you have 2BB in place and likely 4 fighters as well as the bomber on Wake and 1 or 2 ground units to try to take Western US.

    If you take Western you can likely hold it for a turn unless the USA has fortified guys to central US as it is 2 away from Eastern.

    You could reinforce the mainland by J2 with the transports.

    I have not tried this yet but was thinking about it yesterday when reviewing the starting board.

    Any comments?


  • 1.  Wake is Japan Territory on J1, so no need to “assault” it.

    2.  If USA sets up a shuck via WUS, there will be too many forces in WUS to attack it

    3.  If USA sets up a Pearl Counter, there will be no advanced Japan ships, USA ships will block your path, and lots of USA airpower will be ready to sink your fleet as it crosses the Pacific.


  • Sorry all refernces to Wake should be Midway Island.

    Is it worth it to make the threat, even if you don’t attack to have the USA stall a turn or two in its advance to Europe in KGF?


  • No.

    The US can set up to build in WUS, then move to WCan, then ECan for transport to Europe and Africa.  Setting up that mvoe requires almost NO delay in US troop movements to Europe or Africa, and provides for more than adequate defense against a Japan landing in North America.

    There IS a time when you can land Japan troops in Alaska and WCan on the same round in order to disrupt USA troop flow into Europe, but it is a move that must be timed to occur 2 turns before the main Germany/Japan strike on Moscow


  • @Apollo1q:

    Sorry all refernces to Wake should be Midway Island.Â

    Is it worth it to make the threat, even if you don’t attack to have the USA stall a turn or two in its advance to Europe in KGF?

    Most likely……no.

    1. The USA can always drop “10 infantry” in WUS and prevent it from it being taken. Along with 2 tanks in EUS, this will kill WCan japan forces. So the USA has lost ONE round of KGF.

    2. By attacking North America, you gain at most 3 temp IPC from Alaska and WCan.

    3. But you LOSE the immediate opportunity at 3+ Permanent IPC (given KGF) from Australia, NZ, and moving in strength on the mainland.

    4. Axis starts down 96 to 70 IPC. Japan should be taking IPC IT WILL KEEP, not taking IPC the USA will surely take back in 1-2 rounds.

    Squirecam


  • Thanks for the replies.  Will not try that at the next home game.  But new question how do you set up to take AUS and NZ?

    Note:  I have only played the game twice and all the other players are also NOOB’s so we don’t obviously make alot of the moves we are suppossd to at the start.


  • I tend to wait for mid-game for Australia and NZ.

    Before I even try, the US and UK have no ships in the Pacific, and I have more TRNs than I have available units to move.

    Then I take the Japan capital ships (BB, AC’s) that have nothing to do (since there are no enemy ships in the Pacific) and a vacant TRN and scavange the last INF from the remote islands, use the BB shot and a FIG, with a 2 INF landing and go after Australia.  If it fails, save the FIG, grab more INF from surrounding islands, and go again.  When Australia is done, move to NZ.  Then, if USA is still shipless in the Pacific, grab Hawaii on the way back to Japan, and then consider an “Alaska/WCan” annoyance grab.


  • Once the JPN infrastructre on the mainland is set up (2 IC and and 4 TRN) you can make advances towrds the US.  I would forget about Midway and take Hawaii instead.  It’s worth one IPC and can be used as a “staging area” for any US assault. You can go north to either Alaska or W.Can orsouth to Mexico.  If you have the TRNs take both.  It takes a dedicated effort for JPN to take the US but you can’t let it detract from the assault on Moscow.  That being said the assault on the US is not a good primary  JPN strat.


  • @Apollo1q:

    Thanks for the replies.  Will not try that at the next home game.   But new question how do you set up to take AUS and NZ?

    Note:  I have only played the game twice and all the other players are also NOOB’s so we don’t obviously make alot of the moves we are suppossd to at the start.

    Assuming you have 1 transport J1, & no japan bid units/IPC…

    j1 - buy 2 trans,  1 DD or 3 trans, depending on Allied planes/moves
    j2 - you buy 2 transports+ground units. You now have 5-6 trans. 4 are dedicated to mainland. If 6,  the extra #1 gets phil/dei/borneo inf land in FIC. Extra #2 goes to Hawaii J2 with BB shots.
    j3- pick up solomon inf if needed,  and attack australia/nz (if 6) or just Aust (if 5).

    Squirecam

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Too expensive for Japan to attack America early and it frees Russia up to pound Germany.

    Now, if you want to push that off to round 12, after the fall of Moscow, you got something!  Though, honestly, I’d set up in Buryatia and shuttle from there to Alaska and W. Canada.

  • Moderator

    I’ve been trying to think up a viable Japan US strat for a while and I think it can be done (in theory   :-)  ) but IMO you have to do somethings first.

    1)  Hit Pearl with maximum force on J1 and make sure US can’t counter.

    2)  Wait for the the US BB (sz 55) to get to sz 8 or 12 and make sure the Allies are going KGF, which means Japan shouldn’t consider a move before J4.

    3)  Place your new IC on Fic or Man in either J1 or 2.  I think Man may be better.

    4)  Since I think you should wait until at least J4, that gives you at least 3 rds to claim the normal Asia territories and buy your trns etc. (I would wait another turn or two after that.)

    5)  You should take Aus, Nz and Hi first.  (Certainly do-able in rds 3,4,5)

    6)  You need to make an honest assesment of your progress towards Russia.  If you think you can legitimately take it and Germany is still strong, by all means continue to march on Mos.  But if Germany is weak, The Allies have the potential to reinforce Mos with air or troops, then you can hold defenses at Yak/Sin/Ind prior to your US move.

    7)  You should be transporting the bulk of your Japan troops to Bury, that is 6-8 units with either the new IC in Fic or just 1 trn unloading in Fic.  The goal being to have the bulk of your troops stationed in Yak.

    Now on to the assualt, this is how I would do it.  Either on the turn you move to Hi or then next turn, you send 8-10 troops to Ala (or Wcan if possible).  You have to be able to hold Ala on your initial assualt.  The next turn you can get another 8 inf from Bury and you should have a good reserve in Yak to move back and use as well as new purchases for another 8 on the following turn and so on.

    You should be able to hold defenses at Yak/Sin for a few turns b/c of your early build up.

    Now you will need both BB’s and AC’s with ftrs to hit North America on the follow-up turns, but as long as the US had no previous Pac fleet (sz 55 clear) and you can hold Ala on your first landing you can put up a pretty decent threat, even if the US is shucking from Wus.

    The reason being, as long as you hold Ala you can directly threaten Wus with 2 BB, 4-6ftrs, 1 bom and any troops in Ala.  This means the US must defend Wus with it’s buy (any newly placed ships will be sunk immediately), which means you might be able to smash Wcan with your second assualt while maintaining the direct threat on Wus.

    I think you can have a 3-4 turn window to make a serious play at Wus.  You will probably be pushed back to your core in Asia, which is why I like the Man IC, but hey if you get Wus and hold it then it might be worth it.

    Again, this is more theory and HIGHLY SITUATIONAL but I think it could work.  I would consider it in games where maybe Germany has some early troubles or is kicked out of Afr early.  You still do a “typical” Japan in Rds 1-5, but then make a play on the US once it is clear Mos might be untakeable or Germany would fall a good two turns before Moscow.


  • @DarthMaximus:

    6)  You need to make an honest assesment of your progress towards Russia.  If you think you can legitimately take it and Germany is still strong, by all means continue to march on Mos.  But if Germany is weak, The Allies have the potential to reinforce Mos with air or troops, then you can hold defenses at Yak/Sin/Ind prior to your US move.

    Here is where I disagree. If Germany is weak, you cant afford to play around taking 3 IPC of territory. You need troops focused on Moscow. Or at least taking Africa so UK isnt a monster too.

    If Germany is si strong that it has africa and UK is weak and USSR is weak, then by all means play around with an alaska assault. But otherwise, forget it.

    Unless you are doing a canadian shield type move between both Japan & Germany. Which has its own issues…

    Squirecam

  • Moderator

    But if Germany isn’t strong, there is no reason Russia can’t handle Japan and push back, hard.  The Allies don’t need to take Berlin.  Simply box in Ger and make sure its army can’t move.  Unless they have overwhelming force assured to take Berlin.  An Allied Stack in EE solves this, and it is now 3 Allies on Japan going through Moscow.  At this point time is not on the Axis side the Allies don’t need to do anything but wait.  Japan can’t go through All three.

    My idea would be to look out 2 or 3 rds in advance and recognize this before it happens.  Seeing that Russia won’t fall with a Japan only offensive, Unless Germany can get to UK the only alternative would for Japan to go after the US and that certainly isn’t possible once Germany falls or is completely boxed in.

    Yes it is easier to divert when you are stong and I’m for that as well, but as for making a serious play on the US, I wouldn’t think it would be necessary if Germany is a power and Japan is pressing on Moscow.  Forget Ala and do the Moscow 1-2 and end the game.

  • 2007 AAR League

    Going after the US with Japan is a major gamble.  If anything, it should be a diversion, where you take advantage of your BBs (hopefully they hit on bombardment).

    However, I do believe the axis strength would be going after Africa instead of the US.

    Troops in Africa are much more hard to come by that troops in North America.


  • The more you put in US early, the less you can put in Asia early, the more time Russia keeps those territories, the more IPCs the Russians have to fight off the Germans.

    Anything you put in North America can eventually be killed by the US player (unless the US player gets horrible dice or is pretty dumb).

    Early attack on North America is not necessarily entirely noobish, though.  If you attack North America early, the US player is likely to react in such a way that the US will not also be able to attack German-held Africa.  So Germany can secure Africa, and Japan can move units out of North America, and the US is stuck with a lot of ground units.  The US can build a lot of transports pretty quickly, but you see that there are SOME advantages to attacking North America early.

    Trying to conquer Western US by brute force is a bad idea.  If you CAN get Western US for two turns, the Axis will probably win (10 units a turn in Western U.S., Japan has an income of 40ish, US has an income of 30ish, and Germany can go nuts on Africa and Asia).  More likely, though, Japan will be forced to retreat, because the US player can easily drop a crapload of units in Western US, and the usual route for ground in a KGF is Eastern US, Eastern Canada, transport to London, transport to Europe or Africa.  (And if you land in western Canada with Japan, the optimal point at which to attack Western US, US fighters plus US forces in Eastern Canada can kill the Jap units).

    If Japan waits to attack US, Japan gets more IPCs, but the US can set up against Africa.  Not necessarily awful, but not necessarily great either.

    I personally do not advocate build in Western US, move to Western Canada, then to Eastern Canada.  I think it wastes time when time is of great importance.

    I believe India is the best place for an industrial complex.  Failing that, French Indochina.

    The western route through Persia is more valuable than any other; if Japanese tanks can enter the Caucasus, the Japanese and Germans can reinforce each other.  Placement of an IC west puts Japan closer to Africa as well.  French Indochina is within striking distance of Ssinkiang with tanks.

    The shortest route to Moscow is through Ssinkaing, but then a French Indochina IC serves as well as a Manchurian IC.


  • Typically what I do as the US player (keep in mind I normally KGF) is after assembling a meager fleet in the Atlantic is to use the INF push into Norway or Africa or Eastern Europe. When I buy my INF I place them in the Western US on the next turn I move them to West Canada, next turn I go to Eastern Canada where they will meet up with transports.

    This way I can still get to Europe wile providing a deterrent on the West coast to any thing less than a full out invasion by Japan. This isn’t that difficult to accomplish. First you can see Japan coming and plan accordingly. Maybe instead of buying INF on the turn Japan moves to the US buy ARM to get them to where ever Japan lands quickly. If you really see them coming maybe you could get air units to Midway to make a strafe attack before Japan can even get in range (also another deterrent for Japan) If a good player is behind the wheel of Japan they would probably rather go to Asia to fight off the skimpy Russian Army and the UK and US forces that have little chance for reinforcements.

    -LT04


  • LT, that is called a Western US Shuck, and is pretty common strat among online players (though I had to join this site before I learned just how darn effective it can be… especially in Classic)


  • I always called it the Ho-Chi-Min (not sure if that’s spelled correct) trail. I also found it effective with the UK from S Africa to retake Africa then to aid the India factory.

    -LT04


  • yeah, ive tried something like this and it went pporly.  like…japan taken in a under 10 turns poorly.


  • I don’t know why but it can be a difficult concept to master. It took me a wile. It was very frustrating b/c I understood the concept but I might forget to unload troops when they got there or something like that then it would slow down the whole operation. Like the shuc-shuc strategy in classic. It can take some time to master but it is very effective when you do.

    -LT04

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