G1 fleet unification, how does UK respond?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Channel Dash is fun, it almost forces the Allies to build heavy navy just to stop you.  Can delay the fall of Germany a significant amount of time if Japan can pick up the pace a little.


  • Right, well I don’t usually abandon the baltic either, but I think it’s pretty clear to me now that you either add to the baltic fleet or go for the channel dash.  Leaving it there without adding to it is nonsensical.


  • this is not completel true.  the transport can be really helpful to getting people into russia through leningrad

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I usually do neither.  I use the Med fleet to secure Africa, I ignore the Baltic fleet except to reclaim Norway or move more troops to Karelia/E. Europe or to W. Europe until it is sunk.

    Most british players are going to attack your naked fleet and lose valuable fighters in the process.  Rare is the battle England escapes without suffering at least two hits on their valuable fighters and sinks your fleet.


  • @Jennifer:

    I usually do neither.  I use the Med fleet to secure Africa, I ignore the Baltic fleet except to reclaim Norway or move more troops to Karelia/E. Europe or to W. Europe until it is sunk.

    Most british players are going to attack your naked fleet and lose valuable fighters in the process.  Rare is the battle England escapes without suffering at least two hits on their valuable fighters and sinks your fleet.

    With a “channel dash”, you can simply use the BB and trans, attack 1 round, then retreat. The BB soaks up one hit, so you can lose 1 transport instead of 2 fighters.

    Squirecam

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @squirecam:

    @Jennifer:

    I usually do neither.  I use the Med fleet to secure Africa, I ignore the Baltic fleet except to reclaim Norway or move more troops to Karelia/E. Europe or to W. Europe until it is sunk.

    Most british players are going to attack your naked fleet and lose valuable fighters in the process.  Rare is the battle England escapes without suffering at least two hits on their valuable fighters and sinks your fleet.

    With a “channel dash”, you can simply use the BB and trans, attack 1 round, then retreat. The BB soaks up one hit, so you can lose 1 transport instead of 2 fighters.

    Squirecam

    And you quoted me why?  The SZ 5 fleet, of which I was speaking, under attack by England in Round 1 has what, exactly, to do with Germany attacking SZ 13 with her battleship?

    Sorry, just wanted a little clarification.  Maybe you’re confused, maybe I’m confursed.

  • 2007 AAR League

    I think Squire was refering to a B1 attack with the British BB, TRN, fighters and bomber attacking the German Baltic fleet in SZ7 (after the first round channel dash attempt).

    Adding to Jen’s point about just leaving the Baltic fleet where it is, if the British or US try to move a fleet in close to the baltic to use as fodder in taking out this fleet, Germany can in turn use their baltic fleet as fodder to take out the allied fleet with their airforce.  So it ofter has to be just airpower that takes out the baltic fleet, or an overwhelmingly large allied fleet that Germany doesn’t have the firepower to take out even with the baltic fleet as fodder.  But it takes time for the allies to build up a fleet that large, and in the meantime the German interior territories can be defended much more lightly with their baltic fleet intact.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Good point.  The baltic fleet solo may not be able to take out a combined British and American fleet, but it can soak up 4 hits allowing the 6 fighters, bomber and destroyer to inflict some damage without losing anything that wouldn’t be lost soon anyway.

    BTW, I’d never leave just the Baltic fleet sitting naked in the English Channel (SZ 7).  Who would do such a thing and WHY???


  • @rjclayton:

    Yes, but what are your thoughts on delaying moving the med fleet west by 1 round on the channel dash?

    That UK simply kills the German fleet on UK 1 using AF in whatever SZ it dashes too instead of doing so in SZ5 (and UK builds FIGs to replace lost air units so that at the end of UK1, Germany is out a Baltic Fleet, UK is out NOTHING.)

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Well, UK is out the cash it used to build fighters to replace losses. 😛

    Next to nothing is still something.


  • @Jennifer:

    Channel Dash is fun, it almost forces the Allies to build heavy navy just to stop you.  Can delay the fall of Germany a significant amount of time if Japan can pick up the pace a little.

    I quoted you because you stated the above. When you “channel dash”,  the UK BB and Trans get to attack too.

    In which case,  only 1 transport should be lost.

    Squirecam


  • @Jennifer:

    Good point. The baltic fleet solo may not be able to take out a combined British and American fleet, but it can soak up 4 hits allowing the 6 fighters, bomber and destroyer to inflict some damage without losing anything that wouldn’t be lost soon anyway.

    BTW, I’d never leave just the Baltic fleet sitting naked in the English Channel (SZ 7). Who would do such a thing and WHY???

    What would you do then to the Baltic fleet if you’re not doing the channel dash? Do you automatically go for carrier or have some other trick up your sleeve?


  • Assuning no channel dash, would anyone consider simply buying a destroyer for Germany in R1 and putting it in Baltic? It would protect the the existing fleet, leave 4 bucks to spend on the ground. (As opposed to buying a carrier.) With most players using WE as an airfiled anyway, is the carrier neccessary if staying put?

    Potential GR1 buys:
    1 Destroyer (12)
    6 Infantry  (18)
    2 Armor      (10)
          or
    1 Destroyer (12)
    5 Infantry  (15)
    2 Artillery    (8)
    1 Armor      (5)


  • @ankmcfly:

    Assuning no channel dash, would anyone consider simply buying a destroyer for Germany in R1 and putting it in Baltic? It would protect the the existing fleet, leave 4 bucks to spend on the ground. (As opposed to buying a carrier.) With most players using WE as an airfiled anyway, is the carrier neccessary if staying put?

    Potential GR1 buys:
    1 Destroyer (12)
    6 Infantry  (18)
    2 Armor      (10)
          or
    1 Destroyer (12)
    5 Infantry  (15)
    2 Artillery    (8)
    1 Armor      (5)

    If you build a destroyer, I build 3 UK fighters.  What’s Germany’s response then?

  • 2007 AAR League

    If you build your 3 fighters, that’s $30 bucks less in ground troops.  That’ll keep you outta Europe for a while.


  • Yeah $30 dollars in planes means no TRN and INF coming at me so I’ll throw some extra units towards Russia because the UK is not coming to the rescue any time soon.

  • 2007 AAR League

    Typically though a baltic naval buy means that UK/USA are delayed from landing in Europe for at least a turn.  With a 3 fighter buy, baltic navy is wiped out in B2 with 1 fighter lost unless Germany further reinforces.  Then the beefed up British RAF can turn on Germany and either help anchor the russian defense or help clear africa.  Remember that G1 you spent 12IPC less on ground troops than you could have, so you pulled a bit of pressure of Russia already.  1 turn delay for UK landing troops shouldn’t make or break Russia this early in the game.


  • What if you just say “screw the german navy” and just vuild noting but land units and jsut focus on defense of Western Europe.  This way you can throw the greatest amound of force against russia, whils also building for defense.


  • As Germany, I would rather see UK planes than ships. Even with 3 fighter buy in UK1, who is to say that G2 buy doesn’t bring another destroyer in the Baltic? 3 Destroyers, 2 Subs and 1 Trans should/could put a hurt on UK planes, which then cannot go help elsewhere. Assuming UK hits with 5 Fig 1 Bomber:
    TripleA says UK wins 83% with 2.5 units left on avergae Defender wins 13% and Draw 4%.
    I just bought 2 rounds for Japan to get ramped up in Aisa and coaxed the UK into not buying a fleet.
    I’m pretty damn happy! And, Germany still should be out producing Russia 1 piece per turn on the ground.
    Of course, my Baltic fleet is likely detroyed now…


  • thats why I say, dont buy navy.  jsut bunker in for a defense.


  • @rjclayton:

    Typically though a baltic naval buy means that UK/USA are delayed from landing in Europe for at least a turn.  With a 3 fighter buy, baltic navy is wiped out in B2 with 1 fighter lost unless Germany further reinforces.  Then the beefed up British RAF can turn on Germany and either help anchor the russian defense or help clear africa.  Remember that G1 you spent 12IPC less on ground troops than you could have, so you pulled a bit of pressure of Russia already.  1 turn delay for UK landing troops shouldn’t make or break Russia this early in the game.

    Which is why, in a UK 3 fighter buy, you can merge the baltic and med fleets G2. There is your “free” reinforcement.

    Squirecam


  • agreed.

  • Moderator

    If you are going to spend 12 on a DD, I think it would be better to just spend the 4 more for the AC.  I think it gives you more options.


  • @Jennifer:

    Most british players are going to attack your naked fleet and lose valuable fighters in the process.  Rare is the battle England escapes without suffering at least two hits on their valuable fighters and sinks your fleet.

    With UK, I am happy taking out the Baltic Fleet on the first turn.  Even if it means losing some planes…  By takin git out right away you don’t have to place as much navy to protect your transports in the North.  It also lets you immediately park US and Uk naval forces outside of Germany forcing Germany to defend a lot of space.  I think with a country like UK where you are not trading territories as much, the figs are less valuable.


  • I disagree.  Fighters in britain are a pain to the germans.  Also a few bombers (either american or british) can be a pain in the ars as well

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