Russia Round 1 Attacks



  • I attack Ukraine and Western Russia. Ukraine is more important I feel. From our experience its game over Russia in 4 turns if Ukraine is not taken turn 1. I bring 3 inf, 1 art from Caucus, 3 arm, 2 fig. For Western Russia I crash 8 inf, 1 art, 1 arm from Russia-Karelia-Archangel leaving 1 inf in Archangel so Germany doesnt get a free territory. Makes Western Russia resistant to counter attack and allows russia some R2 attack flexibility. I’m rather aggressive with Russia if no strategic bombing
    R1 4 arm, 1 inf - save 1 ipc
    R2 6 arm
    R3 depends on oppenent but I buy armour until The germans/Japan are knocking on the door. I let the UK bring in infantry on their transports.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Gamer:

    I would go one further Switch and say that, if Russia doesn’t take W.Russia and at least strafe Ukraine, Russia is (or should be) toast.

    I agree.  But if Ukraine is too strong, I might pile everything and the AA gun from Caucasus in W. Russia and then retake Caucasus on the next round.  Trick here is remembering you can only purchase 8 units next round.

    Anyway, I’ve never been a fan of Low Luck.  3 Submarines should not automatically be a hit. According to frood, they only have an 85% chance of winning a battle against a solitary, defending aircraft carrier, and the carrier has a 28% chance of surviving all three of the submarines.  But in low luck, the submarines have a 100% chance of sinking the carrier without casualty.

    I also find that low luck takes longer to play then traditional.  This is because you rely on the calculators instead of trying to mentally calculate that you’ll want that extra fighter instead of opening another battle with it, just to be safe. 😛



  • I usually attach for conquering West Russia with 9 INF, 1 ART and 1 TANK.
    Then I strafe Ukraine with 3 INF, 1 ART, 3 TANK and 2 FIG usually losing all the INFs and ART and saving TANK (and FIG!), but killing all German Infantry.
    In my opinion this is the minimun and more conservative opening move allowed to Russia on R1. Being more conservative than this may create early problem on the russian western front.
    For purchasing usually I go for 5 INF, 1 ART and 1 TANK.
    Deployement is 3 INF and 1 ART in Caucasus and 2 inf and 1 TANK in Moscow.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Jenn, you are correct that, if you have too many bid pieces in Ukraine, you must adapt your Russian strategy accordingly.  You also have to be careful when Germany bids an extra transport in sz14.  That can make defending Caucuses REALLY dicey.



  • @Cobert:

    I send enough units to take WRus with enough to defend it, and I send in enough units to Ukraine to kill everything but the fighter.  I dont like taking it, because that involves leaving armor on the front without any fodder.

    I just started my first game online and am playing as the allies.  I ended up taking West Russia with 7 Inf, 1 Art, 1 Arm and ended up taking Ukraine with 3 Arm because I was set on destroying that fighter.  I don’t really know how to strafe properly but I will try beating up on Ukraine next time instead of taking it and see what happens.  I also bought 3 Inf and 3 Arm for a little more firepower.

    So yeah, on Germany 1 I am sure he will roll right over my 3 Arm I have sitting in Ukraine.  Didn’t really think about strafing because I gained 3 IPC and he lost a valuable fighter.  Plus I got a big stack in West Russia and 3 more Arm in Russia to head right back into Ukraine on Russia 2.

    What can I say, I’m a noob!


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yea, a German transport in SZ 14 as a bid, forces the allies to go very heavy in Africa, stationing massive airpower in N. Africa for use in sinking the Med fleet.  Can be a good tactic for Geramny, can blow up in their faces by necessitating their loss of control in Africa early.



  • Well, seeing the Russian player attack 3 territories would plaster a big confident grin on my face, because I’d think he’d very probably fail somewhere and take heavy casualties.

    If the Russian player WON all three, I’d call in the cat.  (Yeah, that’s right, jump up on the table!  Haahahahahaha!).  LOSING all three battles is not cool for Germany at all.

    Russia doesn’t need to slowly build if it makes that hypothetical three territory grab.  Initial territory advantage translates into funds for tanks.  Russia can always fall back, and Germany still has to deal with the loss of its units on Germany’s eastern front.

    I’ve had this happen to me while playing Germany.  It was due largely to some incredibly one-sided dice rolls.  While it leaves Russia spread thin, the loss to the German Air Force is hard to deal with.



  • I like to build 5 Infantry, 1 artillery and 1 tank on Russia 1, then attack Eastern Europe, Ukraine and West Russia.  If you can take out the fighters in EU and Uk, you’ve significantly damaged the German player’s air force.

    I’ve had games where I’ve won all three battles, won two/lost one and lost two/won one.  Losing two can put the Russians on the defense but doesn’t even come close to taking you out of the game.

    You also have to note there that we play the game straight out of the box with no special rules, bidding or national advantages.



  • As Germany I would love a 3 territory R1 open, barring really crappy dice for Germany’s defenders.


  • 2007 AAR League

    i have to agree with switch 3 territorys is a bit much for russia to chew



  • In our initial games Russian player attacked only West Russia, with minimal forces, supported by 1 tank and the aircrafts, and grouping all the other units in Caucasus. But we found that Germany may counterattack west Russia strafing the infantry stack there, and then withdraw to Ukraina. And this creates a lot of problem for Russian armies.
    Now we usually attack another territory other than West Russia, usually Bielorussia, trying to conquer it or Ukraina. The better thing to do with Ukraina, IMHO is to strafe it, saving the precious russian tank, but in some games the strafe had gone too deep, causing the destruction of all German forces. I believe that conquering Ukraina it is a bad situation more for Russia that for Germany.



  • With normal dice (not Low Luck) it’s impractical to just “strafe” Ukraine because of the large variance - and you all are right - the risk of “too good dice” and leaving tanks stranded against counterattack. Better go to the end, kill the fighter, take the 3 IPC. German T1 counterattack may be limited and/or exposing their tanks too, due to lack of fighters (at most 1 after pressing Med and Egypt missions).

    With the best forces available there:
    RUS 3i,1a,3t,2f = 21 firepower, or 3.5 killed on average. May kill an arty, is it worth that ? If it kills the tank, then it’s “too close” to that “too good”.
    GER 3i,1a,1t,1f = 15 firepower, or 2.5 killed on average

    And if Russians send less, say one tank less, then it’s 18:15, too ‘fair’ attrition. Germany may like that 😉 Say it goes 3:3 in the first round, then what ? To stay one more round is “too good”, to withdraw is just equal attrition.

    On the other hand, with Low Luck I send 3i,1a,2t,2f (one tank less, sent to WRU instead) with good chances to gain it with 2arm left.



  • 😮
      I’ve been playing a 3 attack recently, and although costly, I’m begining to like it better all the time.
      Eastern Europe;
            Risky, but if you can kill that Fighter and occupy, it realy can slow the G1 turn. 1 or 2 fighter/s, 1 Tank, and 3 Infantry.
      Western Russia;
            Attack with Infantry and Artillary from Moscow.
      Ukraine;
            Try to kill off that second German fighter. 3 tanks, 1 ftr. (if only one used in EE), 1 art. and 3 Infantry.
        True, it is a more aggressive opening than most players will do, but it can really delay the German opening turn on some fronts.
      Crazy Ivan :roll:



  • 3 Attacks is just TOO risky for my blood…

    Eastern (2 INF, 1 ARM, 1 FIG):
    W/ 3 INF, 1 FIG Karelia only: 
        It is only a 14% win for Russia (most often you lose all attackers in exchange for 2 INF)
    Add the ARM from Archangel OR FIG from Russia: 
        It is only about a 52% win for Russia, and still unlikely to occupy it.
    Add the FIG from Russia AND the ARM from Archangel
        It is an 83% battle to win but only BARELY above 50% to take Eastern.

    West Russia (3 INF, 1 ART, 1 ARM):
    With Archangel INF, Russia INF, Russia ART
        About a 62% chance to win.

    Ukraine (3 INF, 1 ART, 1 ARM, 1 FIG):
    With Caucuses INF, ART, and ARM: 
        6%
    Add one Russian ARM:
        32%
    Add BOTH Russian ARM:
        63%

    I consider 66% (2/3 chance) to be the WORST odds I will accept in a less-than-in-deep-kimchee situation.  I can;t get that with attacker Eastern/West Russia/Ukraine, no matter how I slice it.  Add in an Axis bid of any kind…

    If I DO pull off all three wins I still probably did not gain Eastern’s income, so as Russia I collect only $29, the same as if I attack only 2 territories.  But at a cost of ALL of my armor, and most likely ALL of my forward units in Eastern, West Russia, AND Ukraine to the German counter attack (1 ARM AT MOST in Eastern, 1 INF, 1 ART in West Russia on average, 2 ARM Ukraine). 
    BTW:  The cumulative odds of all 3 battles succeeding:  less than 33%.

    Germany’s counter (along with typical R1 moves that are not blocked by this, only made SLIGHTLY risker by having only 3 FIG for SZ13 and no BOM for Egypt (I’d use it for WR instead) leaves Germany $2 wealthier after their counter (Karelia from Norway, Eastern (if needed to be countered), Ukraine liberated, AND West Russia Liberated (which normally does not happen).

    Germany collecting $46 after G1, Russia with $29 cash and only $22 income, and no ARM unless they purchased them on R1, in which case Russia as a serious manpower shortage in Europe and a LOT of territory to fight over with Germany advancing on them using massed ground forces.



  • What are your thougjts on attacking Eastern Europe and Ukraine only?  It eats two German fighters before they ever get to attack and might be worth the loss of a few Russian tanks.



  • @vanzant316:

    What are your thougjts on attacking Eastern Europe and Ukraine only?  It eats two German fighters before they ever get to attack and might be worth the loss of a few Russian tanks.

    I would love it as Germany, I mean REALLY love it!

    Set up a game board and take a look at why.  I think you will see it…  😉



  • OK, not going to be catty…

    With Eastern and Ukraine only attacks on R1…

    1.  I AM going to liberate Eastern and Ukraine, not even a question.  I can use German INF for fodder in Eastern, Belo and Balkans for Ukraine.
    2.  I AM going to take Karelia using Norway forces
    3.  I am EITHER going to take Moscow using 3 INF, 1 ART, 1 ARM West Russia, 1 FIG Balkans and 1 BOM Germany (landing in Belo) -OR- Caucuses using the West Russia force plus an amphib from Southern backed up by Balkans FIG and German BOM.

    Considering #3 options:
    If you split your FIGs for defense…
    Russia will need 6 INF in Moscow to drop the German odds below 50% win; 7 INF and a FIG (plus AA of course) to drop it to 25% (which is where I would probably abort the idea of attacking Moscow. 
    Caucuses will need 9 INF, 1 FIG, and AA to drop the odds below 50% win; 10 INF to get the odds below 1 in 4 of a German win.

    So you need 15-17 INF and BOTH FIGS to hold Moscow and Caucuses reliably.  To HAVE both FIGs for defense means you only used the Karelia FIG in Eastern.  And THAT means you only have about a 50% chance of even HAVING that FIG to use for defense (if you use both FIGs to increase the odds, the Russia FIG has to land in Karelia and can;t get back to Moscow or Caucuses).  But let’s say that the 1 in 2 happens and the Karelia FIG surives the attack on Eastern AND kills the German FIG there.

    So where do those 15+ INF come from?
    3 Archangel
    2 Evenk
    2 Novo
    2 Kazakh
    3 Russia
    8 BUILD

    So you CAN hold both against the available German forces, if you pull everything that can reach to defend Caucuses and Russia.

    Fine, Strategic Withdraw from West Russia and mass all available German forces in Ukraine:
    1 INF, 1 ART Southern (via TRN)
    1 ARM Southern
    2 INF, 1 ARM Balkans
    3 INF, 1 ART, 1 ARM West Russia
    2 INF Belo (one sent to picket WR)
    2 ARM Germany
    A total of:  8 INF, 2 ART, 5 ARM.

    Go ahead Russia, attack that with INF and a FIG or 2, because if you do not, I AM going to either take Caucuses, or move to West Russia the NEXT turn and force you to choose between Moscow and Caucuses… And if I get Caucuses, I will have it for QUITE a while (with Japan air power flown in to help defend it).  If I get Moscow on G3, GAME OVER.



  • /salute

    Thats why you’re the champ 🙂

    I’m gonna have to play the Russians a little more conservatively next time and see if I can really stick it  to the Germans.



  • @General:

    /salute

    Thats why you’re the champ 🙂

    Only once, in '06.  I got my butt handed to me in Round 2 of this year’s Tournament.  U-505 is the current champ…  😄



  • We all agree on the fact that West Russia is an attack Russia have to do on the first round.

    Making three attack appears to be too risky.

    So two attacks are the ideal R1 move. But where to do the second attack?

    As Magister said simply strafing Ukraina is not easy, you may be unlucky and get the worst losses or you may be too lucky and conquer the territory (and I “experimented” this destroyng all the German army in Ukaraina first round, loosing all the inf, and then… my 3 tank was sitting duck and was wiped from the G2 counterattack… not a good situation)
    So next time I will attack Ukraina to conquer it!

    As Switch said trading for Ukraina and West Russia is a good objective for Russia.

    P.S.

    Switch, your posts should be gathered together in a book: "How to Play and Win at Axis and Allies " !!!



  • Nah.

    I often overlook things in these thread discussions.

    Also, I have been losing half of my games in the League, and I only have about a 66% win record overall.  There are folks who have better records than me, and who are better gamers than I am.



  • @ncscswitch:

    Nah.

    I often overlook things in these thread discussions.

    Also, I have been losing half of my games in the League, and I only have about a 66% win record overall.  There are folks who have better records than me, and who are better gamers than I am.

    but old Fox always pull out somethin, as my people like to say wounded lion is the most dangerous one
    i expect your great play in the tourn.
    and that Jen and i meat/beat you in the same one. 😉



  • @ncscswitch:

    Nah.

    I often overlook things in these thread discussions.

    Also, I have been losing half of my games in the League, and I only have about a 66% win record overall.  There are folks who have better records than me, and who are better gamers than I am.

    Switch, I have read many threads on this forum and, often your posts have clarified my mind more than other explanations, with all the due respect for any other person who write on this forum.
    I am not trying to adulate you, I have only made a consideration.

    Moreover a saying of my country say: “To be a good rider does not require to have been a horse” (I hope my translation is comprensible  😄 )

    Returning on topic.

    I have noted that aggressive move on R1 requires Germany to use a greater number of fighter on Russian front, leaving less fighter to be used in Mediterraneanb Sea and in Africa, and this is a great benefits for UK. Also, Germany is forced to commit a great number of infantry in the Eastern Front and have less unit to stack in France and Germany.

    My question is: German opening moves in answer to aggressive Russia is regruoup and defend, attacking Africa, or trying to advance (in Ukraine and toward Caucasus) forfeiting Africa and using TRN to shuttle troops in Russia?



  • Aggressive Russia means you still take Africa, still clear the Med, AND take out the Russian advance forces.  Then re-group in G2 for further advances against a Russia depleted of offensive units.



  • Where to regroup?

    When Russia attack only West Russia I usually strafe Western Russia forces, and then fall back in Ukraina, starting to put pressure on Caucasus and West Russia.

    But if Ukraina is fallen, I have had problems, and chosen to regroup in Eastern Europe, but this not work because trading for Ukraina and Bielorussia give too much IPC to Russia.

    Alternatively, in my last game I chose to advance to Ukraina with my main army, but several turn of attrition, with reciprocal strafing did not allow me to advance to Moscow fast.
    Cucasus fell, but only on turn 5, when British reinforcement from Norway start to create serius problems in Eastern Europe and USA units have cleared Africa and began to stare to Rome and Paris.

    Maybe I should stay in Eastern Europe trading territories with Russia and moving toward Caucasus when Japanese are at gate of Moscow?


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