Axis and Allies first turns - Russia


  • 2007 AAR League

    @goldenbearflyer:

    1.  Territories in west worth more IPCs.

    Oh, I did read the rest, but you could have stopped at 1.  The game really does come down to control of IPCs.  Until I actually pull off an Axix victory for myself (no really, I’m TOLD it can be done!), any plan for Germany that doesn’t involve taking IPCs from Russia early and often just doesn’t make sense to me mathematically.  Conversely, it makes sense to me to have Russia focus on Germany, yet play smart and opportunistically against Japan.  However, if the Allied consensus were to use KJF, then strategies like reinforcing Bury do make sense to me.

    I’ll just add a refinement to that - the game comes down to this: who has the bigger force. IMHO three ingredients play into this:

    1. Controlling / trading territory
    2. Killing enemy units
    3. Not getting your own units killed
    4. Positioning your units where they exert influence.

    Really they all play into each other - if you can’t keep the other guy from killing your units, you won’t be able to hold territory, etc… But I focus on not getting units killed. Why’s that?

    Because the # of units you can build is pretty fixed. Okay, if you hold one extra territory, you can build one more Inf maybe. There is way more flexibility though in how many units you kill and how many you lose.

    Suppose you capture that extra territory so that you can build that extra Inf. But, you lost 1 Inf taking that territory, had to leave another one there, where it will get killed on the re-take, plus you pulled some fighters off another battle that allowed the defender to keep fighting back one more round, maybe costing you a 1-2 extra Inf there too, and possibly leaving that other territory more vulnerable to counterattack as well. Now your opponent has choices, which is even worse.

    So what I look for at the end of a turn is how many IPCs did I kill, and how many did I lose, or leave where they will get killed. Dead units can’t help you.

    Almost as bad as a dead unit is an inactive unit. If you put your units where they may not get killed, but also don’t threaten to kill anything else, you may as well not have built them in the first place.

    Russia 1

    But, back on topic - thanks for the thoughts on Russia 1, NPB. WRus/Belo pretty much is what I’ve come to conclude as well, Although I think you could forego Belo and just make WRus stronger and take with fewer losses. Here’s my thoughts:

    • You can expect to lose 2 Inf in taking Belo, to kill 3 Inf and capture a 2 IPC territory. That’s a 5 IPC gain but you will lose the Inf and territory right away.
    • 3 extra Inf can really make WRus / Cau a lot safer against an aggressive German player
    • 2 Extra Fighters and 3 Extra Inf into WRus means that it will probably be taken and held with 7 Inf 1 Art 4 Arm rather than 3 Inf 1 Art 4 Arm. In short, you probably lose 1 extra inf, so that’s a 3 IPC loss that also offsets the Belo gain. It’s also much less fodder, and may force you to abandon Cau in order to protect your tanks from being wiped out. (That’s the experience I had last time)

    I like the 2/2/2 build or the 3/3 build - If Russia wants to make advances, it has to do it early before Germany has time to bring its superior production to the front. Once you’ve set the front, then you can take advantage of your 3 extra inf defending rather than attacking. I do like the extra ftr too, but it’s too pricey I think.

    Maybe I like the 3/3 build - 12 on offence and 15 on defence. the 2/2/2 build does - let’s see - 14 and 14. I guess that’s a bit better offensively, but you lose some mobility and some skew. But for an early push into Ukraine, 2/2/2 is prolly best.

    Let’s see - If you don’t take Belo, Russia has prolly 7/1/4 in WRus, plus in Cau:
    3 Inf from start
    2 Inf from  Kazak
    2 Inf 2 Art built

    Plus 2 ftrs, and 2 tanks in Moscow

    Available to attack Ukraine:
    14 Inf 3 Art 6 Arm 2 Ftrs

    Germany can stack Ukr w/:
    9 Inf 8 Arm (assuming 1 Inf stays in Belo) and 1-3 Ftrs?

    It depends on the fighters, but that gives Russia decent odds at taking Ukraine, although even with this there won’t be much Inf left

    Let’s see - if you take Belo, then:

    Attacking force (assuming Cau was left alone)
    10 Inf 3 Art 6 Arm 2 Ftrs
    Defending: Germany will have 5 fewer Inf (-3 from belo, plus assuming 2 sent from EE to Belo for re-take instead - this may be enough for Germany to consider Ukraine a dead zone) 4 Inf 8 Arm and 1-3 Ftrs

    Okay, that’s actually a little better. If Germany leaves 2 Ftrs, you’ll prolly take w/ 6 Arm -no fodder, not great, but you will have killed 8 Tanks and 2 Ftrs. If no Ftrs are left though you’ll take w/ 2 Inf 3 Art 6 Arm, considerably better.

    All right, so the Belo attack is helpful in preparing to take Ukraine.


  • SFO Founder TripleA Admin

    Wow, there are a lot of these posts that should be translated to an article for the website. Newpaintbrush, do you want me to post your original thoughts here? Or update it to include some of the responses here? Or I could just link to this topic from the article.



  • Post original thoughts plz.

    thx!



  • @U-505:

    I would have to say that you should be careful about advancing heavy Russian forces too far into Europe. Drawing Russian ground units away from Russia is a trap I frequently like to set with Germany. It gets really had to resist trading a bunch of advanced territories with Germany because the prospect of Russia making 30+ IPC’s a turn puts dollar signs in the Russian player’s eyes. With the Axis outnumbering Russia by 5 to 1 with air units, trading a lot of territories and ground units with Russia almost always favors the Axis, even if the unit trade is 1 for 1. No matter how much Russia makes, Japan always outproduces them by up to twice as many units and that point will get hammered home when a large number of Russian forces are aimed at Germany and their reinforcements going west dry up instantly because they are desperately trying to hold back the flood of Japanese units coming at them. Japan has a tendence to look benign one turn and the next turn be all over the map, in force, and Russia can quickly get into trouble by being too aggressive toward Germany. Especially if the eastern defensive structure is poorly maintained.

    I completely agree.  I’ve used this “rope-a-dope” tactic a few times.  retreat with germany, attack with japan, and then usually around round 3-4 i counter attack with germany and squeeze russia out and hope that germany conquers russia so i can get the IPC’s.  I say thi cause usually the Allies have taken western Europe with this strategy at some point and I have to retake it.


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