Casualty selection in favor of the attacker



  • With the current rules the selection of what is hit is in favor of the attacker and since both sides shoot at the same time this should not really be the case imo.

    Situation.
    Pearl with 1 BB and 1 ac 1 dest from japan ( with some misc fighters but no sub )
    What if japan and US both hit 2 times ?

    If japan choses to lose the destroyer the US might want to keep the sub for the next naval battle and force japan to stay ( submerge ) but since you have to select prior to rolling you cannot know what to chose at all. This can lead to less favorable results in battle selection just because you have to select before you know your battle results. What if japan elects to lose a fighter then you cant submerge and they can retreat so in that case you rather have the fighter alive.

    How do you guys work around this if you do ?? When i play FTF we normaly select casualties after both sides rolled.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Rules state that attacker rolls first and defender chooses hits before he sees the defending rolls. This is indeed an advantage for the attacker, but it’s the way it’s meant to be.



  • And it is balanced by the fact that it is cheaper to defend than to attack.



  • And that defense is stronger than offese



  • Defence is in the disadvantage because they chose neither the place nor time to attack.
    The fact that defence of some units is better is pretty acurate based on those units.

    But since the idea is that both attacker and defender both fire at the same time should it not be more logical that they also chose their losses at the same time?



  • @ShadowHAwk:

    Defence is in the disadvantage because they chose neither the place nor time to attack.
    The fact that defence of some units is better is pretty acurate based on those units.

    But since the idea is that both attacker and defender both fire at the same time should it not be more logical that they also chose their losses at the same time?

    what do you write them down and then show what units you’re losing at the same time?

    I mean… if I watch you start to peel away your bomber on defense, maybe I alter my offensive loses by peeking as you remove your bomber.

    Someone has to go first.  It’s a game mechanics thingy as well as a slight advantage for the attacker… the attacker also gets the choice to w/d.

    As they say in the commercial… attacking has it’s privledges.


  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    This just clarifies who goes first like Axis_Roll says. Otherwise you’d stare at your opponent waiting for him to feint to a piece so you could feint and you would spend all the time deciding who chooses to lose their pieces first.

    There are times when it does matter. Subs and destroyers are involved most often in my experience.

    Make a house rule to do it another way if you like.  🙂



  • I allways assumed that units were stronger on defence because they had been in the area and had a chance to dig in and create a defendable posistion.  At any rate the advantage gained by this timing doesn’t seem to be a game winning issue.



  • @frimmel:

    This just clarifies who goes first like Axis_Roll says. Otherwise you’d stare at your opponent waiting for him to feint to a piece so you could feint and you would spend all the time deciding who chooses to lose their pieces first.

    There are times when it does matter. Subs and destroyers are involved most often in my experience.

    Make a house rule to do it another way if you like.  🙂

    True it is kinda a house rule but wanted to know how you guys think about it.
    Well ofcourse not staring at your opponent but more a flow that looks like this.
    Attacker throws dice
    Defender thows dice
    Defender choses loses
    Attacker choses loses.
    At least the defender and attacker can chose based on the combat result that happend during the combat then.

    It is not really game winning but it might make the difference in some battles. If you know how many units will be lost you can estimate your opponents moves/losses based on those numbers ( will he really lose that AC before the destroyer 😄 )



  • What you have described is how PBF play is conducted here (though the two rolls are simultaneous)


  • 2007 AAR League

    well when we play by reg. rules.

    att rolls…  def chooses his casualties.    then def rolls and attacker chooses his casualties.  then both put casualties away.

    you should start play with the enhanced realism.  i have to strongly advise that being able to pick your oppenets casualites in rolls of 1 is freaking awesome.

    it doesnt make any sense that if you send 2 tanks and 9 infantry on an attack, that the defender has to kill all 9 inf before they can hit the tanks.   
    the tanks in real life would be doing a lot of the fighting, and would take loses comparable to the inf.  therefore you should be able to hit other units if your unit does well with a roll of one.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Forcing the defender to choose casualties first is not always a disadvantage. In most cases, it favors the attacker but in some cases it does not.

    For instance, during naval battles involving subs, the defender gets to see the attackers hits so they can choose, to the defenders advantage, whether to lose subs or surface ships and submerge the subs or even to fight with the subs in case there is a chance to hit high value attacking naval units depending upon how well the attacker rolls in the first round.

    Also, in the case of defending a territory with a bomber and ground units, if the attacker rolls poorly the defender can choose to save the bomber and lose an infantry when normally the bomber would be the first casualty because it defends the worst.

    Like I said, in most cases, it does favor the attacker. But on occasion, the defender can benefit as much as the attacker can.



  • @balungaloaf:

    you should start play with the enhanced realism.   i have to strongly advise that being able to pick your oppenets casualites in rolls of 1 is freaking awesome.Â

    How is that more realistic?

    The game dynamics/rule/play make this a way too powerful.  Remember A&A is a simulation/abstract, not intended to be realistic down to the platoon/individual level.

    I guess it’s sort of balanced because the defender can choose the best attacker pieces to lose as well…


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Actually, I had always assumed that units generally defended better then attacked just to make up for the fact defenders chose casualties before attackers.  Kind of a balancing mechanism.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    One of the standard ideas to do this (under house rules)

    is two fold:

    infantry attacks infantry
    armor attacks armor  ( tanks and artillery)

    hits are assigned accordingly> tanks have killed all enemy tanks the excess can be allocated to infantry… this easily kills infantry stack mech and vastly improves realism and more fun “arms race” building and kursk style operations.

    second path:

    is every time a specific unit rolls a ONE that unit can select its causaulity (except land units selecting air units)



  • @Imperious:

    is every time a specific unit rolls a ONE that unit can select its causaulity (except land units selecting air units)

    Turning all Attacking INF into “snipers” and defending INF into “sniper” half the time.


  • 2007 AAR League

    inf cant choose on rolls of one.  only if they are a heavy inf can they do that.  and heavy inf can still only choose land units.  all land units on rolls of one except inf(who must hit other inf) must choose other land units.  planes can choose whatever they want.

    naval ships can choose also, but only if they att and def on two’s.  if they att or def on one’s then they dont choose and the other player still gets to choose his own.



  • Just say that INF and TRN’s don;t get to choose.  Less typing 😛


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Sorry i forgot to NOT include INFANTRY AND ARTILLERY on that deal. Only tanks, fighters, and bombers.

    and battleships are preemtive unless another battleship is present.Bombers are preemtive unless enemy fighters are present.

    nice simple rules.


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