I love those moments… i like to wave at them as they pass by


  • Lets say that there is a sub in zone B. i am in zone A and wish to get to zone C. can i travel through seazone B from A to get to C, with out combating the sub in seazone B? or can i not occupy the same seazone as my enemies ever?

  • 2007 AAR League

    Yes, unless a destroyer is present.


  • why would a destroyer make a difference.(his or mine?) they only negate subs special abilities, so i cant submerge if i was using a sub. but i left that general. for all we know im traveling with 20 Battle Boats.

    another thing. can i submerge subs in my noncombat step to avoid combat for the next few turns? if so then i understand your direction. but ive always played you only submerge after opening fire step, then submerge then resuface after battle is concluded

  • 2007 AAR League

    @Mork:

    Lets say that there is a sub in zone B. i am in zone A and wish to get to zone C. can i travel through seazone B from A to get to C, with out combating the sub in seazone B? or can i not occupy the same seazone as my enemies ever?

    Lets add some clarity to this.

    You want to do a Combat Move from SZ A through SZ B to attack enemy fleet in SZ C.
    The enemy has two submarines (SS) in SZ B.
    You must stop and fight the enemy subs since the control that SZ when you enter it.  This ends the Combat Move for your moving fleet.

    All Combat Moves for the current player are done, now Combat occurs.

    In SZ B the fleet of 300 BB, 200 CV and 400 FTR are attacked by the two SS in the Opening Fire Phase.  Two hits occurs.  The attacking player can choose to take the damage on his BBs and/or his CV but not his FTRs since SS can’t shoot at air units.  If he chooses to take both hits on one BB, that BB will not be able to return fire because Opening Fire casualties happen before Normal Fire.

    In normal Fire now happens.  At the end of this any casualties taken on the SS go into effect.

    Now the attacking fleet can chose to retreat or press the attack and the defending SS can chose to fight or submerge.  If they submerge they return to the board and remain submerged until the end of the Non Combat Move for the attacking player.

    Back to the fleet movements…

    The rest of your fleet is in SZ A.  The advance portion of your fleet has moved to SZ B in the Combat Movement phase and forced the enemy submarines to submerge.  This changed the status of SZ B from hostile to friendly until the end of the Non Combat Movement phase when the enemy SS surfaces again.

    Your remaining fleet in SZ A now moves (Non Combat) into SZ B but still can not move into SZ C because of the enemy ships there and it is now NonCombat Movement.

    However, your TRAN that moved into SZ B in the NonCombat Move can move into SZ D (no hostile units) and offload into friendly territories adjacent to SZ D. This is important since those TRAN were not exposed to combat even though they are moving thorugh a SZ that contains an enemy SS.


    Lets put some concrete details on this.

    NOR is occupied by UK forces, SZ 3 is empty (UK killed the German SS there on his turn).

    US forces
    EC == 1 INF, 1 ARM, 2 FTR
    SZ1 == 1 TRAN, 1 BB

    German forces
    SZ 2 == 2 SS

    US Combat Move:
    SZ1 BB -> SZ 2
    EC 2 FTR -> SZ1, SZ 2

    US Combat in SZ 2:
    German 2SS opening fire both hit, US BB is only available casualty and is sunk.
    US normal fire, BB is already gone, 2 FTR both miss.
    German 2SS chose to submerge since they can’t fire at the 2FTR.

    US NonCombat Move
    SZ1 TRAN embarks INF/ARM form EC, -> SZ2 -> SZ3, disembarks INF/ARM to UK occupied NOR.
    SZ2 2 FTR -> SZ3 , NOR.

    Note that the US player should not have sent his BB into SZ 2 on the Combat Move.  His FTR alone would have forced the SS to submerge allowing NonCombat Movement into and through SZ 2.
    Also note that the German SS in SZ3 had to be sunk by UK earlier.  If UK had only forced a submerge in his turn, the SS would be back on the surface for the US player turn, preventing movement into SZ 3 during the NonCombat Move.

    Hope that was clear and I apologize if I have taken a simple question and addressed it well beyond what you needed to hear.

  • 2007 AAR League

    Baghdaddy, you have completely missed one of the submarine’s special abilities.

    @rjclayton:

    Yes, unless a destroyer is present.

    Let me expand on this by quoting the AAR rulebook, page 32, Submarine Unit Profile:

    Special Abilities
    Treat Hostile Sea Zones as Friendly: A submarine can move through a sea zone that contains enemy units.  However, if it ends its combat move in a hostile sea zone, combat will occur.  A submarine cannot end a noncombat move in a hostile sea zone.  The presence of an enemy destroyer in the same sea zone forces a submarine to stop moving.

    So in Mork’s initial situation:

    @Mork:

    Lets say that there is a sub in zone B. i am in zone A and wish to get to zone C. can i travel through seazone B from A to get to C, with out combating the sub in seazone B? or can i not occupy the same seazone as my enemies ever?

    it is a legal move.  However, if there was an enemy destroyer in sea zone B (instead of or as well as the sub) then your sub would not be able to move to C because it would have to stop and fight in B.

    This is all assuming that Mork’s fleet is only subs.  Going back and reading I see that he didn’t necessarily say that his fleet was subs.  Any boats other than subs would have to stop in sz B.  Subs could keep going to sz C.

    Sorry for the confusion.

  • 2007 AAR League

    I stayed away from the offensive use of SS because his posts seemed to be focused on a fleet (mixed units) moving past a SS.

    You are correct regarding the ability of a US SS in SZ 3 in the example to move to SZ 1 with out having to stop and combat SZ 2.

    Also adding a German DD to SZ 2 would prevent that same US SS from transiting SZ 2, instead forcing it to stop and fight.


  • OK, to avoid confusion…

    You MAY pass through an enemy occupied Sea ZOne without combat in only TWO circumstances.

    1.  SUBs only, and then only if there is a not a DST present in the SZ you wish to pass through
    2.  The enemy forces consist exclusively of submerged submarines.

    That is all.  In every other occasion, you enter an enemy occupied DZ, you engage in combat.


  • OK. it seems as though you guys almost touched everyhting ecept for submarines submerging.
    @ncscswitch:

    2. The enemy forces consist exclusively of submerged submarines.

    does this mean i can submerge my subs at the end of my turn so that they stay hidden?

  • 2007 AAR League

    @Mork:

    OK. it seems as though you guys almost touched everyhting ecept for submarines submerging.
    @ncscswitch:

    2. The enemy forces consist exclusively of submerged submarines.

    does this mean i can submerge my subs at the end of my turn so that they stay hidden?

    No.

    Submarines may only submerge when they are the defender and have survived a round of combat.  Further more, they automatically surface at the end of the Non Combat Movement phase of the active (attacking) players turn.

    Your submarines are always vulnerable to at least the first round of combat before they can submerge.


  • Yep.

    Mork, I think you have your answers 🙂

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