If you are playing Revised with a bid then one possibility is to add a 2nd G transport to the Med fleet instead of adding units to Libya/Algeria. It doubles the transport capacity and can make the Russian player weary on an amphibious attack on the Caucasus/Ukraine.
Like mentioned above the drawback is that additional units sent to Africa won’t be used on the Eastern front and the 2nd transport will be sunk with the rest of the fleet if the Allies decide to do so.
German buys turn one
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@CrazyStraw:
Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge.
Squire, that’s not fair! You didn’t say he had to keep his capital. That wasn’t part of the debate.
He was showing that he could stop the MERGE. Who needs London if you have stopped the merge?
sacrasim i hope. …… right? stopping the merge is suppose to stop the germans fprm getting london.
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@CrazyStraw:
Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge.
Squire, that’s not fair! You didn’t say he had to keep his capital. That wasn’t part of the debate.
He was showing that he could stop the MERGE. Who needs London if you have stopped the merge?
sacrasim i hope. …… right? stopping the merge is suppose to stop the germans fprm getting london.
Dont worry, I’m pretty sure it was sarcasm.
I should know this, being a sarcastic a-hole myself. :)
Squirecam
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Dont worry, I’m pretty sure it was sarcasm.
I should know this, being a sarcastic a-hole myself. :)
Squirecam
HOw do i know your not being sarcasstic now. :wink: :lol:
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Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge. You’ve also just lost London.
Haaaa……reminds me of the “Kobiyashi Maru” test where Kirk changes the parameters of the test in order to win. Â :-D
In any case, your new paradigm is easily fixed with a diversion of 1tp with 1tnk, 1inf from US>UK in sz8, Russian sub to sz12. Â But your buy of all Navy for the Baltic would have left you in a very percarious situation on the Eastern front and to get all those air forces in Western would have meant forgoing an attack on Egypt and the UK med destroyer.
Let’s put it to the test. Up for a game?
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Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge. You’ve also just lost London.
Haaaa……reminds me of the “Kobiyashi Maru” test where Kirk changes the parameters of the test in order to win. Â :-D
In any case, your new paradigm is easily fixed with a diversion of 1tp with 1tnk, 1inf from US>UK in sz8, Russian sub to sz12. Â But your buy of all Navy for the Baltic would have left you in a very percarious situation on the Eastern front and to get all those air forces in Western would have meant forgoing an attack on Egypt and the UK med destroyer.
Let’s put it to the test. Up for a game?
First, if you lose your capital, I’d say yes it was a failure. Not changing the test parameters at all. You cannot honestly believe a “block” that costs you a game is viable??
Second, you now have 3 Inf 3 Arm Art, 2 bombers and a fighter. Thats a defense of 23 + aa
Germany has 3 Inf + 3arm + air(1 shot down by aa). That’s 3+9+22 = 31.London is still lost.
Of course, since you changed your moves, I could do the same. I simply build AC+3 transports and have 4 Inf + 4 armor. Now its 35 vs 23. Even better odds.
Third, I (never included, just for this purpose) my bid units, so that can take care of Egypt. Which is why I mentioned the Bomber in Lybia, which can attack London and still land.
But let me end this now. You will say that instead, you bring 2 transports to London. Fine, Now you cannot block me, and I therefore attack your fleet and then merge.
Fourth, USSR wont trouble me as I have UK’s $30 to spend. Added with the 40-50 IPC I have, and now I’m looking at 15 tanks or so…
Fifth, I will be at Greg’s Spring Gathering. I plan on being there all day and playing A&A so feel free to ask me then.
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Dont worry, I’m pretty sure it was sarcasm.
I should know this, being a sarcastic a-hole myself. :)
Squirecam
HOw do i know your not being sarcasstic now. :wink: :lol:
touche
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Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge. You’ve also just lost London.
Haaaa……reminds me of the “Kobiyashi Maru” test where Kirk changes the parameters of the test in order to win. Â :-D
In any case, your new paradigm is easily fixed with a diversion of 1tp with 1tnk, 1inf from US>UK in sz8, Russian sub to sz12. Â But your buy of all Navy for the Baltic would have left you in a very percarious situation on the Eastern front and to get all those air forces in Western would have meant forgoing an attack on Egypt and the UK med destroyer.
Let’s put it to the test. Up for a game?
First, if you lose your capital, I’d say yes it was a failure. Not changing the test parameters at all. You cannot honestly believe a “block” that costs you a game is viable??
Second, you now have 3 Inf 3 Arm Art, 2 bombers and a fighter. Thats a defense of 23 + aa
Germany has 3 Inf + 3arm + air(1 shot down by aa). That’s 3+9+22 = 31.London is still lost.
Of course, since you changed your moves, I could do the same. I simply build AC+3 transports and have 4 Inf + 4 armor. Now its 35 vs 23. Even better odds.
Third, I (never included, just for this purpose) my bid units, so that can take care of Egypt. Which is why I mentioned the Bomber in Lybia, which can attack London and still land.
But let me end this now. You will say that instead, you bring 2 transports to London. Fine, Now you cannot block me, and I therefore attack your fleet and then merge.
Fourth, USSR wont trouble me as I have UK’s $30 to spend. Added with the 40-50 IPC I have, and now I’m looking at 15 tanks or so…
Fifth, I will be at Greg’s Spring Gathering. I plan on being there all day and playing A&A so feel free to ask me then.
Let’s play a game and see if you can pull it off.
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Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge. You’ve also just lost London.
Haaaa……reminds me of the “Kobiyashi Maru” test where Kirk changes the parameters of the test in order to win. :-D
In any case, your new paradigm is easily fixed with a diversion of 1tp with 1tnk, 1inf from US>UK in sz8, Russian sub to sz12. But your buy of all Navy for the Baltic would have left you in a very percarious situation on the Eastern front and to get all those air forces in Western would have meant forgoing an attack on Egypt and the UK med destroyer.
Let’s put it to the test. Up for a game?
First, if you lose your capital, I’d say yes it was a failure. Not changing the test parameters at all. You cannot honestly believe a “block” that costs you a game is viable??
Second, you now have 3 Inf 3 Arm Art, 2 bombers and a fighter. Thats a defense of 23 + aa
Germany has 3 Inf + 3arm + air(1 shot down by aa). That’s 3+9+22 = 31.London is still lost.
Of course, since you changed your moves, I could do the same. I simply build AC+3 transports and have 4 Inf + 4 armor. Now its 35 vs 23. Even better odds.
Third, I (never included, just for this purpose) my bid units, so that can take care of Egypt. Which is why I mentioned the Bomber in Lybia, which can attack London and still land.
But let me end this now. You will say that instead, you bring 2 transports to London. Fine, Now you cannot block me, and I therefore attack your fleet and then merge.
Fourth, USSR wont trouble me as I have UK’s $30 to spend. Added with the 40-50 IPC I have, and now I’m looking at 15 tanks or so…
Fifth, I will be at Greg’s Spring Gathering. I plan on being there all day and playing A&A so feel free to ask me then.
Let’s play a game and see if you can pull it off.
then stop b****hing about it and play. :-P
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If I’m not otherwise committed, Im more than happy to play you there. {Crazystraw, Yoper, V-Disc, and several others are on my list.}
But I’m more concerned about settling this debate now. You stated that it was easy to block. Did you have any other potential blocking moves??
If you conceed the point on London vs the fleet, then thats fine too.
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If I’m not otherwise committed, Im more than happy to play you there. {Crazystraw, Yoper, V-Disc, and several others are on my list.}
But I’m more concerned about settling this debate now. You stated that it was easy to block. Did you have any other potential blocking moves??
If you conceed the point on London vs the fleet, then thats fine too.
Not sure what the “greg’s spring gathering” is, If it’s a FTF then it’s not likely I can be there. If you want to play online…then this is the place. If you think your strategy is a winning one then step up. I guarantee you won’t get london or merge your fleet on G2. :-D
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If I’m not otherwise committed, Im more than happy to play you there. {Crazystraw, Yoper, V-Disc, and several others are on my list.}
But I’m more concerned about settling this debate now. You stated that it was easy to block. Did you have any other potential blocking moves??
If you conceed the point on London vs the fleet, then thats fine too.
Not sure what the “greg’s spring gathering” is, If it’s a FTF then it’s not likely I can be there. If you want to play online…then this is the place. If you think your strategy is a winning one then step up. I guarantee you won’t get london or merge your fleet on G2. :-D
1 - Yes, its FTF
2 - You’ve already “guaranteed” that.
3 - You asked me for my moves.
4 - I gave them, asked for your block
5 - The block that you gave cost you London.
6 - Since you have now publically boasted twice, I want to see it. Tell it to me, right now. Dont just say its unlikely that you cant meet FTF. You said it was SIMPLE and you’d tell me about it. So please put it here in black and white.
{FWIW, I said “usually” because there is one block that can be done, but which requires forsight and the absolute knowledge of the future.}
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Ok first of all we are assuming the Soviets do this:
Soviets attack and take Belo and West Russia. Belo is attacked with 2 fighters and 3 men and west russia is attacked with most of the rest. Russia has protected caucasus. They bought mostly infantry but certainly didnt go heavy on tanks. For example we assume either 1) 8 infantry, 2) 3 tanks and 3 infantry, 3) 4 infantry and 3 artillery
Further we assume Soviets lost 1-2 Inf taking belo and 2-4 infantry taking west russia.
also the Soviet sub is in blocking mode against german fleet
The bid is 3-6 and no NA’s are being used.
NOW we can sort out the opening in the following terms:
Book opening= predictable and safe opening system with a clear mandate of what we are trying to accomplish while making a predictable line of play.
Gambit= you are deliberatly making a calculated risk assesment and leaving a ‘hole’ in your position in order to gain some advantage in another area. Thus you give up in one area of your opening so gain an advantage in another.
Cheapo= this is when you open a line of play that relies on luck elements to pull off an acute advantage ( e.g many attacks at long odds but with a big pay off, or channel dash option, or sealion)
Desperado= The ultimate risk taker. Something that if you fail will quickly lead to your downfall ( e.g. going for rockets)
Ill try to come up with a 5th option closer to safe play option but i dont have a name for it.
Eventually Illcolor coordinate these into types of openings into colors Green, Yellow, orange, red
Now we have not gotten into the german attacks but depending on the style of opening will dictate in some cases what is attacked.
But i have looked at the odds and come up with these attacks for Germany:
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Gibrater UK BB is attacked with: 1 sub, 1 bomber, 3 fighters Reasoning: we want not to lose a plane and need 2 hits in first round.
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Uk Destroyer off egypt attacked with: 1 BB, 1 transport, 1 fighter Reasoning: you will get one hit and BB will take a hit ( not losing anything)
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Attack egypt with tank and inf from lybia and land 2 infantry from transport, plus bring in 2 fighters. You can also pick up one tank and one infantry instead of 2 infantry, but you may run into losing 3 units which will dig into the tanks which many have been lost courtesy of the Soviets on R1.
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In Russia the attacks will be done w/o plane support and are largely dependant on what the Russian player has lost, generally youll take back Belo, and also kar… trying to hold Ukr.
Now how exactly does this channel dash thing work? How is it a viable option on G1 or G2?
Sealion is not possible with a bid of zero or 3. I have only seen it work with a bid of 8. If UK buys a fleet how then can G2 be a decent plan for channel dash?
I do see the merits of such a plan but i dont see how they get away with it against a decent Uk player. its certainly not w/o major risks of failure.
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@Imperious:
Ok first of all we are assuming the Soviets do this:
.
I havent always agreed with Crazystraw. Over time, I’ve come to respect him. But just like I’ve said to you, (and him) writing a “paper” on this stuff will only bring problems. You will be misleading people, as your assumptions about the best/risky moves would be flawed. The moves listed will contain many assumptions, many of which could be wrong and countered.
By your own admission, you dont understand Crazy’s “channel” moves. It seems to me you should read those papers. But even then, you are going to be hard pressed to come up with a comprehensive paper of any sort which will definitavely answer what is best. Because what is best varies based upon those too many factors I’ve said before.
I dont want to see you fruitlessly waste your time. Which is what this project will ultimately be.
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If I’m not otherwise committed, Im more than happy to play you there. {Crazystraw, Yoper, V-Disc, and several others are on my list.}
But I’m more concerned about settling this debate now. You stated that it was easy to block. Did you have any other potential blocking moves??
If you conceed the point on London vs the fleet, then thats fine too.
Not sure what the “greg’s spring gathering” is, If it’s a FTF then it’s not likely I can be there. If you want to play online…then this is the place. If you think your strategy is a winning one then step up. I guarantee you won’t get london or merge your fleet on G2. :-D
1 - Yes, its FTF
2 - You’ve already “guaranteed” that.
3 - You asked me for my moves.
4 - I gave them, asked for your block
5 - The block that you gave cost you London.
6 - Since you have now publically boasted twice, I want to see it. Tell it to me, right now. Dont just say its unlikely that you cant meet FTF. You said it was SIMPLE and you’d tell me about it. So please put it here in black and white.
{FWIW, I said “usually” because there is one block that can be done, but which requires forsight and the absolute knowledge of the future.}
Then let’s settle it here and now, online. I’ll set up the thread. LHTR, No Tech, No NA’s.
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Then let’s settle it here and now, online. I’ll set up the thread. LHTR, No Tech, No NA’s.
No dude. I gave you the moves. You said you had a simple counter. Post the counter, like you said you could.
If its so simple, what’s stopping you???
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Because as several folks have said, there are too many assumptions relative to that move.
It has to be seen in total strategic context in order to properly evaluate it. The North Sea is not a vacuum, nor can a strat in it be tested in a vacuum.
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@Imperious:
Considering that the Soviets attack/conquer west russia and belorussia as part of their standard opening i have been tinkering with the solution to solve what would be the best thing for germany on turn one. Many people buy that carrier and 8 infantry on G1, but i am thinking about other choices.
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A battleship would cost 24 IPC which takes 2 hits and can use its attack for shore bombardment against western E, Finland, and Leningrad. This can pay for the extra cost in a few turns. The planes would be freed up to help defend more vital areas. In the long run its probably not a good idea to use planes to defend the fleet. Also if the allies attacked this fleet and things went bad you can take the battleship as a loss and save another piece that would otherwise be sunk.
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buy two destroyers which give you two threes and keep your fighters used for land defence and out of harms way.
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ignore the baltic fleet and wait and see buying only land units unless UK moves her ships in for the kill.
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try to leave the baltic and join the fleet in the medd–- “The channel dash”
which if these plans do you favor and why. My intention is to make a strategy guide with all the standard plays for each player.
Destroyers boo. Rationale, destroyers are totally useless in the ground war against Russia, and building navy like that forces Germany to race UK and US for navy.
Rest OK, a bit tricky for some but sound.
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The option of 1-2 TRNs for the Baltic on G1 has been left out I notice…
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@ncscswitch:
Because as several folks have said, there are too many assumptions relative to that move.
It has to be seen in total strategic context in order to properly evaluate it. The North Sea is not a vacuum, nor can a strat in it be tested in a vacuum.
Dont answer for him Switch.
HE said it was simple.
HE said if I posted my buy and told him where the units were, he could easily show me the block.
Both of his posted blocks cost him London.
If you boast that you can post a simple move, then do so. Or otherwise, respectfully, keep your mouth shut.
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I only posted because I myself have fallen victim to the vacuum strat discussion before. It is not a valid or viable means of discussing a strat.
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