Built fleet

Jennifer

Here’s the idea. If you build fleet in a sea zone with enemy units in it, those enemy units cannot combat or non-combat out of that sea zone but must engage the enemy for 1 round of combat, if any enemy units survive then they may retreat one sea zone to any non-enemy controlled sea zone.

Would be interesting. You could put a massive British fleet in SZ 2 and lock the German fleet in SZ 6 by putting a submarine in there.

Or Germany could lock all British naval assets in the Baltic by putting a submarine in SZ 5, preventing them from using their transports located there for any combat or non-combat moves.

tekkyy

What are you trying to model here?
Why do you want to force combat?

ajgundam5

I don’t think she wants to force combat I think she just wants to block a fleet into a Sz preventing them from moving for another turn.

Jennifer

That’s the idea.

Prevents England from staging transports in SZ 5 for repeated invasions of Germany because Germany puts 1 submarine in SZ 5 (Cost 8) saving 4-6 infantry from assault (cost 12-18).

Same for Japan, England, Karelia, etc.

You are thinking partially in Clasic terms there Jen… no IC in Karelia in revised :-P

tekkyy

Oh I see. Like a naval engagement issue.

There is one issue with your rule.
Why “must engage the enemy”? Shouldn’t it be more flexible? (Considering some sea zone are huge and joins multiple sea zones.)

If it is not a “must” but rather a decision. Then one reason not to do this rule is that it gives the passive player a free attack.

I think I see what are you are getting in with your rule.
But I think what you need is a rule governing movement in “non-high-sea” sea zones. SZ 4, 5, 13, 14, 15, 16.

Once again it appears that a SZ is needed in the Denmark Straits to make the time/risk of movement of Germany forces OUT of the Baltic and Allied forces IN to the Baltic more representative of reality… as well as the ability of Germany to PLACE SUBs directly in that SZ.

I think that would solve the issue.

UK has multiple SZ’s, so a couple of ship “blockade” now requires a massive fleet, and ditto for Japan with 2 SZ’s.
Perhaps also split SZ55 into North and South to allow for multiple SZ placement from WUS IC as well for consistency. and split SZ10 to create a new Gulf of Mexico SZ.

Jennifer

The idea would be that the enemy would be forced to engage because you cannot non-combat move before you combat move. We might give them a choice of forgoing any combat moves anywhere and go directly to non-combat moves to save their fleet.

It would just add another level of difficulty to the allies. I am tiring of games where the allies have 3 carriers in the baltic and can shuffle their troops around at will. A single german submarine in SZ 5 should effectively kill any transport movement with transports originating in that sea zone. (you cannot load in a hostile zone.)

Basically, if you put transports in SZ 5 or 14, you can pretty much expect them to be stuck there without ability to move or load/unload for the rest of the game.

tekkyy

We have a strait interdiction rule letting Germany influence te Baltic Sea via the “Germany” territory (via Denmark in reality).

I still think its really about non-high-sea SZs.

You can get some strange movement/retreat in those cases.

Because the SZ is like only connected to one other SZ.

tekkyy

Like, a naval battle in the Indian Ocean would be different to the Baltic Sea.

Japanese fleet at SZ 31 attacks UK fleet at SZ 32. After one cycle, Japan “takes” SZ 31 and UK fleet retreats to SZ 32.
Sounds ok.

UK fleet at SZ 6 attacks German fleet at SZ 5. After one cycle UK “takes” SZ 5 and German fleet retreats to SZ 6.
Weird…

Jennifer

But defenders cannot retreat in AAR. In classic, defending submarines could retreat. But that’s really not relevant to the discussion.

The idea is that England could put 2 Aircraft Carriers, a Battleship, 3 Destroyers, 4 Transports in SZ 5 and all Germany should have to do to neutrallize them is put 1 submarine in the water. This counts as combat, you cannot retreat from combat until after the first round and only to a territory you attacked from, thus, you should be locked in SZ 5 for a full round, unable to move to England to get reinforcements to land in Europe.

tekkyy

Of cousre the UK fleet can’t move away in combat-move and load troops in the same turn anyway.

Jennifer

Really? Happens routinely for me. You build a submarine, England moves out of SZ 5, picks up infantry and moves to SZ 4, or back to SZ 5, and engages your submarine.

@tekkyy:

Of cousre the UK fleet can’t move away in combat-move and load troops in the same turn anyway.

Yes they can, but the units so loaded have to COMBAT unload also.

Check LHTR. Rules are very clear on this.

So in the above example:
UK fleet in SZ5.
Germany drops a SUB
UK pulls TRNs out of SZ5 to SZ6, grabs troops from UK, then back to SZ5 (where BB’s absorb hits and sink the German SUB), then the TRNs offload to Western, Germany, Eastern, Karelia, or Norway, ALL of which are legal offloads as long as Germany (or Japan) controls the territory being offloaded to.

tekkyy

Oh damn. I didn’t think about that. :-(

Jennifer

Yea, that’s the bummer of it. I’m proposing that this cannot happen. You can retreat from combat, but because your transports were engaged in combat (even though no shots were fired, they were forced to move during combat) they cannot load troops anymore this round.

Should give the axis more breathing space, the allies have tons of breathing space already.

tekkyy

even today I am still a bit confused about what transport can and can’t do :wink:

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