Communsim is not good



  • @TG:

    “Very simple. Babies cry and moan all the damn time, and they learn to do it more and more. Greed gets their diaper changed, and their milk microwaved. So pre-school could try top reverse it, but they were afffected right after birth.”

    I’m not sure you can associate this very heavily with greed, since this is a matter of survival (even in a communist society, we must all survive). Also, babies cry all the time, even if their diaper is already changed and/or their tummies full. I’m sure after a baby is immediately born, the reason he/she is crying is not for those mentioned above (maybe for his/her mother, though it’s often that the baby still cries even after being reunited). Also, I was thinking that a communist society would “provide for him/her” in the first place. However, what you could do is make the argument of children “throwing tantrums” to get things their way (which in this case we are all guilty for). Again, pre-school would try to reverse it (as in isolation from his/her peers if he wants to build his/her own city with ALL the blocks).

    Simple. The need to acquire is instinct, but through that greed is acquired. You can’t stop that. As long as a man can strive, have hunger, or want something, greed will exist. No one truly wants greater good, remember. It is all how it feels to yourself.



  • "If an human gain power; he is certainly fit to survive ? No, he probably exploit others, and we encourage that. "

    Not everything is explotion. There is intelligence and good ideas.

    Milton Hershey for example. He built his workers a socialist paradise, which is now Hershey Pennsylvania. He is famous for never cheating on his wife and living a scandalous lifestyle. In fact, he increased employment during the great depression, and how did the workers repay him? Half of them went on strike, while half were loyal to a man that gave them a chance. A man that went truly to rags to riches. With communism, there would be no Hershey bar!



  • "In a Socialist/Communist Society, you would probably have a set of free state sponsored colleges, and you would go to one based on your intelligence level and how well they did in elementary school. "

    Yes, Germany has that. But you don’t need socialism for that, besides the state sponsored colleges…and public schools suck and we all know it. So why would we want all state schools? Bad idea.



  • Well, in Canada the gov’t sponsors the universities to the tune of nearly 75% depending on what faculty you’re in etc. Then there are scholarships and bursary programs designed for the intelligent/hard-working poor. The whole inheritance thing - which i’m guessing is considered to be the main problem with capitalism - is not really that much of a problem:

    1. idiots who inherit a lot of money lose it, and are back to square one, along with their poor “stupid” families
    2. much of the time the brains that made the money are inherited along with the money - if the person shows as much intelligence etc. as his old man or lady, then they have an opportunity to expand what they’ve inherited, increasing the economy, employing even more people, etc.
    3. political power is easily inherited/acquired down generations. I have little doubt that this is more possible/likely in a communist system - “Ike’s dad was quite the communist - so Ike, you ready to fill in his shoes?” etc.

    (CRYPT’S GRAND UNIFICATION THEOREM)
    capitalism is like evolution - the talent makes it, the crap gets weeded out.
    communism is like intelligent design - an almighty over-seer (gov’t) creates the economy - jobs, etc. and makes certain that certain ideals etc. are created into the system.
    (it needs work, but you can kind of get the gist).
    note that many capitalists appear to be intelligent design people, and the communists seem to be blind-watchmaker types
    Capitalism is like evolution



  • “Simple. The need to acquire is instinct, but through that greed is acquired. You can’t stop that. As long as a man can strive, have hunger, or want something, greed will exist.”

    Really, I’m not sure how this is conflicted with communism. I guess I’m just missing something here. Need to acquire is there (to each according to his needs). The use of “greed” is very subjective, it can be interpreted in different ways in different culture. Also want, though common associated with greed, does not necessarily mean greed (greed being excessive). Also, who’s telling you greed will NOT exist in a communist society? Sure, conditions will not be favorable (compared with a capitalist society) for it, but it is impossible to say not one man in a communist society will acquire greed. Communist just places greed at a minimum, while capitalism exploits it.

    “Yes, Germany has that. But you don’t need socialism for that, besides the state sponsored colleges…and public schools suck and we all know it. So why would we want all state schools? Bad idea.”

    Why is it under a capitalist system that public schools tend to “suck.” Yet in other quasi-socialist countries like China, public schools perform exceptional? Herein lies the answer. Also, for those who know anything about Germany, are their state sponsored colleges any good?

    “With communism, there would be no Hershey bar!”

    Oh god, we could never let this happen!! Damn those communist pinkos!! 😉



  • “Why is it under a capitalist system that public schools tend to “suck.” Yet in other quasi-socialist countries like China, public schools perform exceptional?”

    Sweat-shop labor is socialism? God bless capitalism. China is totalitarianism.

    You communist society would fail to fix the problems of capitalism because the problems of capitalism are all greed. You cannot make a society void of it! We can’t stop bad parenting today, so how do you want to change the minds of those in the future? You would need to control every aspect of a man’s life to make a perfect communist (read
    Zamyatin’s We for example), but then again their society is undermined by R-503’s (is that that guy’s name?) Greed.

    So you try to say “Greed has nothing to do with communism, why bring it up???” It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Capitalism isn’t working perfectly because of greed. Now with communism, the same greed exists, but it wouldn’t allow the economic mobility to be earned, theirfore what is the point of trying? Common good? Give me a break! Noi one cares about their fellow men. Someone wants capitalism because overall it would make the best effect on everyone thus their life. One wants communsim because they want their life to be affected in a positive way. When it comes down to it, the desire for a communistic change isn’t selflessnes, but rather selfish.



  • “Sweat-shop labor is socialism”

    Uh, weren’t sweatshops are an invention of the capitalist machine?

    “control every aspect of a man’s life to make a perfect communist”

    I do not expect everybody to be a “perfect communist.” To control every aspect of a man’s life wouldn’t even resemble communism, which encourages personal rights and freedom.

    “Greed has nothing to do with communism, why bring it up???”

    Wait a second, where did I say this? I’m serious, where did you manage to dig this up? I merely mentioned that communism (nor any other system) will totally eradicate greed.

    “the same greed exists”

    Greed at an accelerated pace!? I simply can’t agree with that.

    “economic mobility to be earned”

    Again, in communism people are already born with the ability of what paths to choose in life. Your “economic mobility” is already in a communism society, where in capitalism it must be achieved through exploitation and greed (at luck certainly plays a part).

    “Common good? Give me a break! Noi one cares about their fellow men.”

    To harsh of a generalization. Does religion (Christian) teach good will toward fellow men? Certainly I would.

    “Someone wants capitalism because overall it would make the best effect on everyone thus their life.”

    How would ruthlessly exploiting the worker have the “best effect on everyone.”

    “When it comes down to it, the desire for a communistic change isn’t selflessnes, but rather selfish.”

    Because I want to help improve the lives of those around me, it is selfish? Maybe.



  • @Yanny:

    a set of free state sponsored colleges

    Yes, but state schools are not as good as private schools, but in a Communism there would be no private schools.

    Plus, the people who got into the better schools would be those who knew burecrats. You’d just create a new, worse class-system.



  • @HortenFlyingWing:

    ! Noi one cares about their fellow men.

    Plenty of people care about their fellow man. Just not the majority, as would be required by Communism.



  • good ideas… good ideas to exploit people you mean. The most genius mind are rarely rich. When you see some rich people you will say; hey, he got a good ideas ? you forget he was probably just at the right place at the right time. The rich people always say it was good ideas that make them rich, that is the speach of the victor.

    Just take W. Bush, he is not very brilliant, still he get a good education and lot of money. That is not the exeption; he is the “normal” case.

    And crypt, when i was speaking of the hocky player; what i said was; he did’nt work as much as 20 times more than a normal worker, he was just lucky, at the right place at the right time.

    (CRYPT’S GRAND UNIFICATION THEOREM)
    capitalism is like evolution - the talent makes it, the crap gets weeded out.
    communism is like intelligent design - an almighty over-seer (gov’t) creates the economy - jobs, etc. and makes certain that certain ideals etc. are created into the system.
    (it needs work, but you can kind of get the gist).
    note that many capitalists appear to be intelligent design people, and the communists seem to be blind-watchmaker types
    Capitalism is like evolution

    Then i’m a capitalist. Wait a minute, that does’nt work out 😄

    Maybe communism is a step in social evolution that we are not ready to make, but it is still maybe a step.



  • Public Colleges are horrible in the US because the Goverment doesn’t put enough money into them. We should be less concerned with firing million dollar missles at Camels in Afganastan, we should educate our own people.



  • @Yanny:

    Public Colleges are horrible in the US because the Goverment doesn’t put enough money into them. We should be less concerned with firing million dollar missles at Camels in Afganastan, we should educate our own people.

    i don’t know.
    some of those camels . . . they look at people funny. That alone deserves a couple of million dollar missles.
    that and for the spitting too.



  • Come on, Yanny, you know that if the camel had the chance he would eat you and your entire family.



  • TG Moses,

    The problem with the communism is that it cannot work. Following the Communist Revolution, Lenin faced compounding problems behind economic planning. Lenin later wrote, “In attempting to go over straight to communism we, in the spring of 1921, sustained a more serious defeat on the economic front than any defeat inflicted upon us by Kolchak, Deniken or Pilsudski. This defeat was much more serious, significant and dangerous. It was expressed in the isolation of the higher administrators of our economic policy from the lower and their failure to produce that development of the productive forces which the Programme of our Party regards as vital and urgent.”

    In February 1921, Lenin secretly wrote, “The greatest danger is that the work of planning the state economy may be bureaucratized . . . . A complete, integrated, real plan for us at present equals ‘a bureaucratic utopia.’ Don’t chase it.”

    Trotsky admitted to similar problems. In his literary work, The Revolution Betrayed, Trotsky wrote that while “the obedient professors managed to create an entire theory according to which the Soviet price, in contrast to the market price, has an exclusively planning or directive character . . . . The professors forgot to explain how you can ‘guide’ a price without knowing real costs, and how you can estimate real costs if all prices express the will of the bureaucracy . . .”

    In Socialism (1922), Mises demonstrated the logical flaws of communism because of the system’s inability to provide knowledge about which production projects are feasible and which ones are not. Without private ownership in the means of production, rational economic calculation is unknowable. Once economic planners are in power, they must find some rationale to base their decisions on. As a result, those who have an advantage in exercising one’s power will rise to the top of the planning mechanism. In this case, Stalinism becomes a logical consequence of Marxism. It grand failure lies in the decline in economic productivity because of state overcentralization and the deterioration of the bureaucratized social welfare system, a supposed benefit of Communist rule.

    It is common practice today to criticize the deformed, egalitarian socialism built in the 1930s. But that criticism sidesteps the structural reasons for a communist barracks-style approach. And it avoids the central question: Can a conformist, democratic socialism be built on a noncommodity, nonmarket foundation? Why is it that in most cases, efforts to combat the market and commodity-money relations have always led to authoritarianism and encroachments on individual rights?

    What has more government centralization brought to the United States? Less than 2 percent of Americans are farmers, yet the Department of Agriculture adds still more bureaucrats. Before 1950, the government largely stayed out of the housing business. Now we have housing projects in all of our major cities, and the government, an absentee landlord, couldn’t care less. The private sector can build housing more cheaply, with an incentive to maintain the property and screen tenants. During the 1980s, the “decade of greed,” charitable contributions by corporations and private citizens increased by at least 30 percent. Why? People had more disposable income, paid fewer taxes, and therefore gave more away. Americans are among the most generous people on Earth. But people want their money to go to people and organizations that they choose and trust.



  • that’s beautiful



  • Yeah, what she said! 😄



  • @TM:

    TG Moses,

    The problem with the communism is that it cannot work. Following the Communist Revolution, Lenin faced compounding problems behind economic planning. Lenin later wrote, “In attempting to go over straight to communism we, in the spring of 1921, sustained a more serious defeat on the economic front than any defeat inflicted upon us by Kolchak, Deniken or Pilsudski. This defeat was much more serious, significant and dangerous. It was expressed in the isolation of the higher administrators of our economic policy from the lower and their failure to produce that development of the productive forces which the Programme of our Party regards as vital and urgent.”

    In February 1921, Lenin secretly wrote, “The greatest danger is that the work of planning the state economy may be bureaucratized . . . . A complete, integrated, real plan for us at present equals ‘a bureaucratic utopia.’ Don’t chase it.”

    Trotsky admitted to similar problems. In his literary work, The Revolution Betrayed, Trotsky wrote that while “the obedient professors managed to create an entire theory according to which the Soviet price, in contrast to the market price, has an exclusively planning or directive character . . . . The professors forgot to explain how you can ‘guide’ a price without knowing real costs, and how you can estimate real costs if all prices express the will of the bureaucracy . . .”

    In Socialism (1922), Mises demonstrated the logical flaws of communism because of the system’s inability to provide knowledge about which production projects are feasible and which ones are not. Without private ownership in the means of production, rational economic calculation is unknowable. Once economic planners are in power, they must find some rationale to base their decisions on. As a result, those who have an advantage in exercising one’s power will rise to the top of the planning mechanism. In this case, Stalinism becomes a logical consequence of Marxism. It grand failure lies in the decline in economic productivity because of state overcentralization and the deterioration of the bureaucratized social welfare system, a supposed benefit of Communist rule.

    It is common practice today to criticize the deformed, egalitarian socialism built in the 1930s. But that criticism sidesteps the structural reasons for a communist barracks-style approach. And it avoids the central question: Can a conformist, democratic socialism be built on a noncommodity, nonmarket foundation? Why is it that in most cases, efforts to combat the market and commodity-money relations have always led to authoritarianism and encroachments on individual rights?

    What has more government centralization brought to the United States? Less than 2 percent of Americans are farmers, yet the Department of Agriculture adds still more bureaucrats. Before 1950, the government largely stayed out of the housing business. Now we have housing projects in all of our major cities, and the government, an absentee landlord, couldn’t care less. The private sector can build housing more cheaply, with an incentive to maintain the property and screen tenants. During the 1980s, the “decade of greed,” charitable contributions by corporations and private citizens increased by at least 30 percent. Why? People had more disposable income, paid fewer taxes, and therefore gave more away. Americans are among the most generous people on Earth. But people want their money to go to people and organizations that they choose and trust.

    Oh man, so now I have to deal with you too? Great, just what I always wanted to ask for. 😛 And now you’re even using the Sage of South Central and the Hall of conservative thought against me? Man, and I thought I told you to run all capitalist claims through me first. Okayyyyy, I surrender 😮 . Puts up white flag Turn me in. (Just don’t feed me to the camels 😉 )



  • You’ll be lucky if we only feed you to the camels. (and believe me, they are hungry)



  • NOT if we can blow 'em up real good with some good 'ole million dollar warheads 🙂



  • Damn camels…



  • “Because I want to help improve the lives of those around me, it is selfish? Maybe.”

    That’s a lie and you know it.

    Communism only works if everyone is a perfect communist. If not, the system, dependent on a “group effort” of sorts, would collapse upon itself. Capitalism has greed and we all know it. It is what makes capitalism “bad.” You say, “societyies weren’t always like that” or people can be “good christians.” impossible.

    Three examples.

    Look at a parking lot…in Shea stadium. If everyone was courteous and didn’t cut eachother off, everyone would get out by 11:00. But people literally steal time from eachother, because to any driver they are “selfish pricks.” So you don’t need a cap[italist society to foster greed. All you need is an oppurtunity to take or corrupt anything. Society can be corrupted, and Communism IS NOT the andidote to it.

    When you are a little kid (or maybe still) you go to the supermarket. You see the gummy worms in the plastic bin with the knob, so you take three and eat them. Now if no one did that, gummy worms would be cheaper…but guess what, people steal, because there is an oppurtunity to take something they want. Your parent probably did not tell you to “steal the gummy worms”, no one has to. You are born with desire, and with that you DEVELOP greed. Pretty simple.

    You are in first grade. Your teacher, Mrs. Whitman, has a collection of foreign coins for the class to play with. You really like them, and they are “the classes” and they are supposed to be “shared”, but what the hell, stick a couple in your shoe! Your parents, teacher, and class never condoned this, but guess what, you like the shiney or odd looking coins. The greed is acquired, and now there are less coins to go around. I guess Mrs. Whitman won’t bring anymore in then.
    (Happy ending: I returned the coins!)

    Communism relies on people pulling their weight, and when they can’t enough people are sharing and working so EVERYONE would benefit. But that is impossible with man.



  • Crypt, MULTI-million dollar warheads.



  • @FinsterniS:

    good ideas… good ideas to exploit people you mean. The most genius mind are rarely rich. When you see some rich people you will say; hey, he got a good ideas ? you forget he was probably just at the right place at the right time. The rich people always say it was good ideas that make them rich, that is the speach of the victor.

    Just take W. Bush, he is not very brilliant, still he get a good education and lot of money. That is not the exeption; he is the “normal” case.

    And crypt, when i was speaking of the hocky player; what i said was; he did’nt work as much as 20 times more than a normal worker, he was just lucky, at the right place at the right time.

    (CRYPT’S GRAND UNIFICATION THEOREM)
    capitalism is like evolution - the talent makes it, the crap gets weeded out.
    communism is like intelligent design - an almighty over-seer (gov’t) creates the economy - jobs, etc. and makes certain that certain ideals etc. are created into the system.
    (it needs work, but you can kind of get the gist).
    note that many capitalists appear to be intelligent design people, and the communists seem to be blind-watchmaker types
    Capitalism is like evolution

    Then i’m a capitalist. Wait a minute, that does’nt work out 😄

    Maybe communism is a step in social evolution that we are not ready to make, but it is still maybe a step.

    A step that breaks from under you and hurts man kind.

    "The most genius mind are rarely rich. When you see some rich people you will say; hey, he got a good ideas ? you forget he was probably just at the right place at the right time. The rich people always say it was good ideas that make them rich, that is the speach of the victor. "

    How about Milton Hershey, Karl Benz, or Eli Whitney? They didn’t deserve to be rich. Of course there is a kind of “landed mobility”, more like people who’s family that has money and they don’t have to strive to make more. but it doesn’t last forever! I see it every day (or when my dad’s girlfriend calls.)



  • “Public Colleges are horrible in the US because the Goverment doesn’t put enough money into them. We should be less concerned with firing million dollar missles at Camels in Afganastan, we should educate our own people.”

    I had an ignorant friend who said that too. One, losing big tall buildings costs a crap load of money, hurts the economy, and less goes to our schools. The “War on Terror” (in some ways and circumstances) is needed for America’s defense, don’t give me that we are robbing the schools.

    Schools get a shit load of cash and still suck. They don’t know how to use it because every family memeber of the head of any department and administrators get a crap load of state paid kick backs, and they could get even more through “construction” and buying 600 dollar computers for 3 to 4 grand! If a corperation owned a school, they would not buy $600 toilet seats, and try to pull a profit.



  • @cystic:

    NOT if we can blow 'em up real good with some good 'ole million dollar warheads 🙂

    be with the times…they are ten Gs. we are throwing away Kias.

    that remark was made by bush and he was quoted saying “i’m not going to just fire a couple million dollar misslies at tents to hit a camel in the ass” or something like that.


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