Communsim is not good



  • Since I’m too lazy to write my own post, here are some essays supporting my point of view:

    Ethics of Capitalism http://www.moraldefense.com/Philosophy/Essays/The_Moral_Basis_of_Capitalism.htm

    Infeasibility of Communism http://www.essaydepot.com/essayme/404/ and http://home.eol.ca/~smithda/exeden/comm.html

    The Socialist Myth http://members.tripod.com/~GOPcapitalist/socialistmyth.html

    What are your thoughts?



  • I vote Communism, note that does not mean Stalinism.



  • I believe I have I identified your political group Yanny:

    Socialist and Communist Ideologue Movement:
    Typically comprised of those who have extensively studied Marx, Lenin, and Trotsky’s writings (and often little more), this movement rarely acknowledges the dismal failures of the communist and socialist philosophies when instituted in practice. Often claiming “True communism has never really been instituted” and insisting that if it were, it would work, the ideologue movement often follows utopian dreams rather than recognizing the flaws of reality. Numerous ideologue web sites promising a better society while claiming to sympathize with the workers in an effort to make everything fair and just have sprung up recently with links to this movement. This ideologue movement is often too deluded to realize flaws exist in the socialist and communist theory and therefore it speaks of a utopia physically unattainable due to inherent flaws and simple impossibility. This highly dogmatic ideologue movement often propagandizes communism and socialism with the writings of Upton Sinclair, John Steinbeck, and Leon Trotsky while trying to force this type of thought on others.

    -source: Capitalist Conservative Republicans



  • I’ve read these essays (although two paragraphs is hardly an essay) and if that’s the best you can come up with then capitalism is in pretty lame shape. They seem to overestimate the average human (in the case of the morality of capitalism essay) or they severly underestimate them (in the case of the last essay you mention). In that last essay I am very surprised that the author could only come up with about 3 reasons why communism is ev… I mean can’t work. I could come with more than that if I really wanted too. I don’t think you capitalists are trying hard enough.



  • I don’t know, these articles were kind of weak. Also I’m finding that these articles [morals of capitalism] refer to the welfare state (a pitiful attempt of trying to use capitalism to promote a socialists state) and not to communism itself.

    It also assumes that improvements in technology and science won’t occur in a communist state. It also assumes that government regulation is bad, yet it was the government that played a vital part in trying to improve the lives of the worker during the Industrial Revolution (ex. safety regulations). Then it makes a statement, that under a “free market” everybody can have a career as a “neurosurgeon.” Yet it does not take into account the over saturation of the job market in the particular area if everybody wants to be one.

    The Myth of Socialism is also flawed. “In practice though the same problems plague both as freedom becomes necessarily usurped and trampled on due to abuse of power, economic impossibility, and unforeseen and unintended variables among other things.” A pretty general definition? Again, this assumes a number of things: abuse of power (probable, depending on the leaders), unforeseen variables (right….), and economic impossibility (not specific).

    Infeasibility of communism? Bossk’s phrase, “Two paragraph essay.” Yep that’s real in depth. 😉

    “Typically comprised of those who have extensively studied Marx, Lenin, and Trotsky’s writings (and often little more),”

    This assumes that communism is static and inflexible. It makes no attempts at new age communist writers (independent – many communist parties are more Stalinist than communist).



  • Dang it, where’s Horten and Mini!? We still haven’t even finished the Marxist debate! 😛



  • of course it is possible that all systems suck.



  • I don’t think anarchy is the way to go. This has been debated several times between communist and anarchist.



  • @cystic:

    of course it is possible that all systems suck.

    Not totally false, but i would prefer a system where everyone has the same power (money)… But people are too individualistic for that… anyway for now, also the technocracy is maybe not ready…

    This ideologue movement is often too deluded

    About the CCP; they are not really convincing. They do not attack Communism, but Communist; that is not justify, and it betrayed an evident lack of substance… If they want argument against communism they should argue human are too individualistic, egoistic & competitive…

    Under the cover of the right of “liberty”, capitalism is a real injustice and a problematic deviance.



  • @FinsterniS:

    @cystic:

    of course it is possible that all systems suck.

    Not totally false, but i would prefer a system where everyone has the same power (money)… But people are too individualistic for that… anyway for now, also the technocracy is maybe not ready…
    Under the cover of the right of “liberty”, capitalism is a real injustice and a problematic deviance.

    see, i am in disagreement here. I’m all for a system of rewards and incentives for good behaviour (and life sucking for bad behaviour).

    1. Every one having the same power (money) might be a nice idea in a society where everyone produces/contributes equally (or at least equally relative to their abilities - in so far as they are able to develop these abilities), however many of us are lazy, would rather go to silly forums than do our research, would rather go work in a factory than go into debt studying etc. Idillyc? maybe. Making any reasonable sense in THIS world? no.
    2. No system will be without a power variance. So in much of the world the power currency is money. In communism the power currency might well be position in the party, the army, or some other hierarchical necessity. As i said in an earlier post. People will find a way to designate some kind of power currency. At least in a capitalist system some of that power currency makes its way to some of the people “deserving”. True, it’s far from perfect, but it is a system that works for those who work hard, study, dream, have talent, and apply themselves to making their dreams come true.
      It also allows freedom of religion, which is a handy thing when you are me.


  • “In communism the power currency might well be position in the party, the army, or some other hierarchical necessity.”

    Political power might be what you’re looking for, though I not sure how that would harm communism, if you have a sound elected council that rotates regularly. Sorry, can’t talk that much now, Powerpuff Girls is on. (Mojo Jojo the Monkey rules! 😉).



  • Again, the resident Marxists talk about how in a perfect world perfect Communism would be perfect. Try real world. Communism has never been attained, despite the fact that it has been repeatedly tried. To use an analogy, a wonder car which doesn’t work versus a plain old regular car which does, I’ll pick the car which at least runs, despite the fact it is worse than the wonder car would theoretically be. The problem is, the wonder car will NEVER run.



  • Again, the resident Marxists talk about how in a perfect world perfect Communism would be perfect. Try real world.

    Cuba is working pretty well.

    Anyway that is true communism is not working very well for now anyway…

    however many of us are lazy, would rather go to silly forums

    Yea but we are in vacation, good time to read book and discuss with other culture 🙂



  • The Kibbutz in Israel was communist and it worked well but today it has begun to fade out. In the Kibbutz everyone would share everything, including tasks and respnsibilities. I think all sytems have their ups and their downs.



  • Eventually, all systems fade, it’s just part of the political cycle. The question that remains is when and for how long.

    “Communism has never been attained, despite the fact that it has been repeatedly tried.”

    Really? Are you sure it wasn’t leaders working under the guise of communism and not to promote the communist state itself? When’s the last time a communist society has been “repeatedly tried?” Also, try not to confuse communist societies with utopian societies. They may sound the same, but more often than not, they aren’t.



  • I want to see a Capitalism last. According to Marx (whose economic theories are so far correct), the exact cycle we are undergoing now will bring about an end to our Capitalism. We have a shrinking Middle Class, which will (according to Marx) eventually all but disapear. Then the cycle will continue until we have a Late 1700s France type society, with the Rich controlling the Goverment. Revolution will ensue and a Communist Goverment will be established.

    The French Revolution is a great example. 98% of the French Population were confined to the “3rd Estate”. The rest of the population was defined as the “Second EstatE” and the “First Estate”. Louis the 16th called a meeting of the 3 estates to settle issues in France. He had them vote by Block, each Estate got 1 Vote. The Second and First Estate always outvoted the 3rd Estate, the 3rd Estate broke off, formed their own Goverment, and Revolution began.

    If Napoleon had not been defeated, Europe would of been united in a free, democratic, classless society. Just because it was before Marx’s time doesn’t mean this couldn’t of been a communism.



  • I would hate Cuba when Castro came into power. I’d be packing my bags for Miami, no question. You want to take everything i’ve worked for and give it to some guy who lived on his ass in his mommy’s basement? I’ll take my chances with capitalism.
    Funny tho’, the communes that i’ve heard of working the best are Hudderite colonies. They seem to prosper quite well (except for a dearth in genetic material).



  • Although I dislike Israel, ever heard of the Kibbutz system? This on a large scale would be great!



  • Yeah,
    some of those Jewish girls are really cute - love that exotic look.



  • Exotic look? You gotta be kidding me. 😛
    Jewish girls are cute, Natalie Portman was born in Israel.

    Anyways, Hudderite colonies do do very well. Though I can’t say it’s true communism. Maybe they would do even better, since the system is producing all their needs for them (of course this is impossible without communism on a global scale). Therefore, they would be free from having to sell their “wares” onto the market to buy their needs, which they can’t produce. Also, Hudderites are very religious, though this is less of an issue. Also, I’m unclear on how their government works, so I can’t really comment on it.



  • Well you can’t have 100% pure Communism, like you can’t have 100% pure Capitalism. Both would be anarchy.



  • @Yanny:

    Well you can’t have 100% pure Communism, like you can’t have 100% pure Capitalism. Both would be anarchy.

    i agree 100%
    pure capitalism can’t work for everyone, that’s obvious, which is why governments have regulations, anti-trust laws, and social programs.
    pure communism can’t work for everyone 'cuz it sux . . . (ok, i have to think this one through a little better . . . ). 😄



  • “Well you can’t have 100% pure Communism, like you can’t have 100% pure Capitalism. Both would be anarchy”

    True communism or 100% is what Marx and Engles calls higher-level communism. So long as the state exists there is no freedom. When there is freedom, there will be no state. The state will be able to wither away completely when society adopts the rule: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”, i.e., when people have become so accustomed to observing the fundamental rules of social intercourse and when their labor has become so productive that they will voluntarily work according to their ability. “The narrow horizon of bourgeois law”, which compels one to calculate whether one has not worked half an hour more than anybody else – this narrow horizon will then be left behind. There will then be no need for society, in distributing the products, to regulate the quantity to be received by each; each will take freely “according to his needs”.

    The so-called Anarchistic youth of today, for the most part simply use the term “Anarchist” as an indication of not wanting to go along with the “system” in not wanting to assimilate, which is a giant leap forward on their part considering all their lives they’ve constantly been bombarded with the huge American Corporate propaganda machine. But what they do not learn, and never will from an Anarchist perspective is what is to replace the smashed state machine?

    Engels explains that the state is a "special coercive force.” So what must come after the bourgeoisie is overthrown to keep it down? As Lenin explains in the State and Revolution: the bourgeois state "must be replaced by a ‘special coercive force’ for the suppression of the bourgeois by the proletariat that is workers’ democracy. The proletariat “state” is no longer a state in the proper sense of the word, Lenin explains, because it is no longer the minority suppressing the majority, but the vast majority suppressing a tiny minority! Instead of organizing an instrument for the coercion of the bourgeois by the proletariat, the Anarchists wish to simply abolish the state overnight and hope that the capitalists do not make any attempts of counterrevolution, an absurd and unrealistic idea.



  • Because CC, it does not suck that some people get better medical treatment ? That some can have an office of lawyers working for them…

    That is horrible and deviant.



  • 100% Capitalism is a 100% Market Economy. This means no Taxes, no Regulation, and no Goverment involvement in business, basically Pure Adam Smith Economics. 100% Communism is Big Brother.

    Realistic Capitalism - High Taxes, Large amounts of Goverment influence. Lots of Regulation. “Unoffical” Class System.

    Realistic Communism - No Taxes. Goverment owns all Busnisses. Equal distribution of wealth.


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