• Just throwing this out as a possible rule variant/house rule for various A&A games.

    Currently AA guns are immune to attack, they are also limitted in terms of defensive ability.

    Remove both restrictions by allowing a special type of attack… an Air Defense Raid.

    Attacker uses a combined FIG/BOM attack force.
    Defender may use AA AND FIGs in the attacked territory.

    Attacking FIGs may only attack defending FIGs
    Attacking BOMs may only attack AA guns
    Defending FIGs may fire on FIGs and BOM (Attacker chooses OOL as normal)

    The AA gun would fire at ALL incoming aircraft (as normal).
    Then combat would continue with FIG on FIG and BOM on AA, with the AA gun getting to fire ON THE BOMBER(s) every round until destroyed or all the bombers were dead.

    Only other rule modification… allow multiple AA guns to be in  single territory, but 2nd (or more) guns could ONLY fire against bombers AFTER the opening fire shot in an Air Defense Raid.


  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    This in some respects is the standard approach except your is of unlimited duration and a sortie for the attacking planes is one of limited duration due to fuel concerns. As the attacking planes are flying over targets they should of course be intercepted but only for one round, then they perform SBR and move back home. A aerial combat of unlimited duration does not model the bomber campaign too well. The model has to show a plane or two being destroyed per turn at normal combat rather than entire air force. The current combat values have made multi round air combat impossible.

    check out how we solved this problem under AARHE

  • AARHE changed a few things

    in short…

    *allow MORE than 1 AA gun per territory
    *AA guns weakened, but shoot EVERY round
    *planes fight at REDUCED values when enemy also have planes (“dogfighting”)

    so now you don’t have air units constantly slaughted by AA guns like they are worthless
    air unit hits go on air units
    yet you don’t have huge air casuality per combat cycle

    your idea is great and we should make AA guns vulnerable again
    a version of your rule would go under SBR (instead of targetting income, target AA)

    while it sounds strange to make something just for killing AA
    we don’t have “AA” piece in AARHE, it is now a ID (infrastructure defence, which includes anti-ship coastal batteries)
    an SBR (strategic bombing raid) targetting infrastructure defence sounds alright

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I like the idea of targetting AA Guns, because there’s no way to currently get rid of them from teh board!  Well, other then putting them on a transport and then leaving the transport where it can be sunk.

    I just wonder as to the effectiveness of it.  Sounds like you’ll be spending a lot of resources hitting that AA Gun for very little gain. (5 IPCs.)

    Maybe you could do an SBR run on AA Guns instead?  That way if Germany has a 3rd gun in W. Europe (aka the start guns) you could SBR W. Europe, Germany and S. Europe???

  • Yeah if its 1 AA (ID) unit its probably not worth it.
    You would probably do it only when there are more guns.

    Just wondering if its reasonable for air units to take out AA with ease.

    Say 1 FTR (fighter) against 1 AA.
    AA has 2.8% chance of hitting the FTR.
    FTR has 33% chance of hitting the AA.

    Unlike modern systems WWII air units can’t make “standoff” attacks against ground.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Maybe reverse the odds?  If you attack an AA then you hit on a ‘1’ but the AA hits on a ‘3 or less’?  Considering you’re diving right down on top of it.

  • Maybe in such an attack AA(ID) guns don’t have to spot. So they only perform the attack rolls.

    Don’t know if thats reasonable though.

    I am trying to put it under SBR rule. And in normal SBR attacks AA needs to spot before shooting at bombers.

  • in the end is this kind of attack reasonable?
    considering the AA batteries are scattered and not easy to spot?

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