Two Rules Questions



  • I would really appreciate it if someone could clarify these two rules:

    1)  Can AA guns fire three times a turn?  During the combat move, during the combat, and then during the non-combat move?
    2)  If a defending Aircraft Carrier sinks, can the planes on it land on the island in that sea zone (at the end of combat)?



  • fouriercrux,

    The AA guns can fire once per turn at each airplane attacking their residence country or crossing that country in an attack movement.  They do not fire during non-combat moves.

    Fighters on an AC that is a battle casualty may land on an island within or shoreline adjacent to the seazone in which the AC sunk.  Basically, the fighters have a 1 square move to land safely.

    Hope this helps.


  • Official Answers 2007 AAR League

    Concurring with Rock.



  • Might be confusing to say that you have a 1 square move to land safely since (AFAIK) you may not move into another SZ to land on a different carrier.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Why did I think that AA guns fired during non-combat?  I know they don’t in classic, but thought they did in revised.  Is this rule different for OOB vs. LHTR???


  • Moderator

    @rjclayton:

    Why did I think that AA guns fired during non-combat?  I know they don’t in classic, but thought they did in revised.  Is this rule different for OOB vs. LHTR???

    Yes, I believe in the OOB rules aa-guns do fire during non-com as well.

    But LHTR changed that, IIRC.

    I think one of the justifications for the change was all combat should take place during the combat phase.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    AA Guns could fire on Non-Combat as well, if you were playing “Always Active AA Guns.”  A condition that shipped in the CD Rom.  Personally, I liked the option at times, meant bombers flying to S. Europe for SBR got shot at by the W. Europe AA Gun, the S. Europe AA Gun and the W. Europe AA Gun again. 🙂

    But that was the only time I know of where they fired in NCM.

    As for defending fighters, they may land on any Aircraft Carrier, coast or island in that Sea Zone if their original carrier was destroyed.  They cannot land on a carrier in another sea zone.



  • Yes they CAN Jen.

    A DEFENDING fighter that survives combat after having its carrier shot out form under it can travel UP TO ONE SPACE and land on any legal landing site.  This would include another carrier, a carrier belonging to an ally, an allied island in the same sea zone, or an allied land territory adjacent to the sea zone.  If none of those are within 1 space, the FIG dies.

    Note:  this is why DAAK is pre-programmed to kill FIGs before AC’s in the order of loss pre-programmed into it… you have to change the OOL manually to change it.



  • One more question that came up tonight:
    3)  If a battleship is in a sea zone adjacent to two amphibious landings, can it take part in both?

    I appreciate all the feedback!  I believe LHTR chaged the AA rule on page 21 of the Revised Manual which states:
    Phase 5: NonCombat Move -> Air Units -> “Antiaircraft funs may fire at air units in this phase following the same rules as in the conduct combat phase.”  This would be the “Always Active AA guns” that Jennifer mentioned.

    Cheers.



  • AA guns DO fire during noncombat, by OOB rules.  As DM stated.  But they do NOT fire during noncombat, by LHTR rules.  As DM stated.

    If a fighter has a carrier shot out from it, it CAN move to a carrier in an adjacent sea zone.  Page 27, left hand bottom picture illustrates this in OOB.

    If a battleship is in a sea zone adjacent to two amphibious landings, it can only take part in ONE, and even then only if it didn’t take part in any naval combat that turn.  You get to choose which one the battleship supports.



  • And to add to Paint’s note on the amphib support shots, at least 1 transport must offload from the the same sea zone that the battleship is in.

    So as an example, if a BB was in SZ38 and TRN was offloading to Australia from SZ46, the BB would NOT get to fire a support shot.



  • Another interesting note: AA fire is targeted against specific aircraft!  The official FAQ under “Combat” says that the reason for this rule is to force Bombers to take hits from AA guns.   😐


  • Official Answers 2007 AAR League

    I think that you roll your AA separately. Once for attacking bombers and once for attacking fighters. Not quite choosing that way but one hit on a bunch of aircraft wouldn’t necessarily be a FTR shot down

    I think as a matter of form/custom all the dice for AA get rolled at once but I don’t think it is technicaly correct to do it that way.



  • You can, just use different colors of dice… say white dice for the FIGs and black for the BOM.  You just call the dice before rolling (if it is not obvious by the number of dice being rolled, like 1 FIG, 1 BOM)


  • Official Answers 2007 AAR League

    That is a very sensible idea but I think there is a tendency to consider all the aircraft at once for hits in AA. Ftrs and Bombers rolled at once with no consideration of keeping things separate. I know that we forget or don’t keep 'em separate often.  :oops:



  • In Classic, I do not recall the segregation, it was a correction in Revised to my knowledge.



  • @ncscswitch:

    In Classic, I do not recall the segregation, it was a correction in Revised to my knowledge.

    Yes.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    That’s how it was in classic, but now they specifically changed the rules so that bombers are fired at seperately.



  • AA individual targeting:  In the revised rules, you mark the distance each plane has moved with a numbered disk.  Since you target each plane individually, you may be able to shoot down a plane that has only travelled one space instead of one that has travelled three spaces, thus increasing the effective damage.

    Landing defending planes from sunk Aircraft Carriers:  If you sink a defending aircraft carrier, you can fly the planes one space at the end of the combat.  Can you thus fly those planes to defend in a neighboring battle?


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    My personal opinion is no, they cannot be flown to defend in another battle because I believe they move during the Non-Combat Movement Phase, not during the Combat phase.  (Though, the actual timing of the movement might be right after the battle for convenience reasons.)



  • No, they could NOT join an existing battle as a defender as all combat occurs at once.

    Officially, FIGs retreat (and land) in the NCM phase, NOT in Combat.



  • Even in OOB though combat is simultaneous, so the FIGs STILL could not join the other battle in retreat.



  • I knew that you knew that  :lol:

    I was just clarifying for the masses 🙂


  • Official Answers 2007 AAR League

    @ncscswitch:

    I knew that you knew that  :lol:

    I was just clarifying for the masses 🙂

    Sometimes I’m sure you are just making excuses to increase your post count. This is one of 'em.  🙂



  • You know, I honestly have given up tracking my post count.

    Post count is not what matters… TOURNAMENT wins are what matter!  :evil:


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