• 2007 AAR League

    THe situation:

    Germany captures Congo from the Brits early in the game.  Then Berlin falls, with Congo still under the German flag.  Can Japan move a land unit into Congo to take control of that territory and claim it for income?

    The Congo technically isn’t “liberated” when Japan moves in.  But Germany can’t do jack squat with it, so does it become idle until one of the Allies comes along?  That would seem crazy since the Allies would presumably benefit from leaving one of their territories under foreign control, because Japan could beat them back and earn income where the Germans could not.

    LHTR 1.3 rulebook seems unclear on this issue.  Help!

  • 2007 AAR League

    Are there any German units in the Congo? (not that I know if that makes a difference). My inclination would be that Japan could claim it by moving in there. By doing so it is not liberating but it is asserting control over a country that has essentially become vacant. In reality, it should be easier to claim a territory held by a friendly power than an empty enemy territory - a loyal administration would already be in place.

    Does Germany have any chance of getting its capital back?

    The Allies don’t really benefit that much because they are not getting the income from it either.


  • My understanding is that Japan cannot claim it unless an allies power takes control of it first.

  • 2007 AAR League

    Japan may NOT claim the territory, until an Allied power has taken control of the area. Then Japan may conquer it from the Allies.
    However, there is NO way that Japan may get the income, before Allied troops have conquered Congo.

  • 2007 AAR League

    What’s your source though?


  • Perry has the correct rule.

    You can NOT take an allied territory, even if their capital has fallen, unless you take it from the enemy.

    It is covered in LHTR about half way through (page 8 of a 21 page printout) near the bottom under the header “Liberating a territory”

  • 2007 AAR League

    OK, I guess I have to live with that in territories that were originally controlled by an enemy power.

    Here’s part 2 of the question.  As Japan, I’ve just rolled through and liberated a bunch of German countries that the Allies had previously captured.  Berlin has not fallen yet.  So does that mean that when Berlin falls, and all of my Jap units are hanging out in Eastern Europe, Belo, etc., that I cannot claim those territories as Japan income?  Even though my units are sitting there?

    If that’s true, then I just totally F’ed up on my last Japan move vs. U-505.  That means that the Axis benefits by letting Germany fall into the hands of the Allies, and then they march across West Russia, Belo, etc.  Looking back, I also should have played Germany totally differently and NOT liberated more German territory so the territories could ultimately go to Japan.

    This may cost me the game, if not significantly delay a victory.


  • Then you fracked up 4th… (by your statements)

    Had you waited for the fall of Berlin, you could have claimed them.  Instead you have reinforced the German Resistance.

    THose Japan occupied but German controlled territories will remain German unless you let the Allies claim them, then take them back as Japan.

  • 2007 AAR League

    @4thmac:

    OK, I guess I have to live with that in territories that were originally controlled by an enemy power.

    Here’s part 2 of the question. As Japan, I’ve just rolled through and liberated a bunch of German countries that the Allies had previously captured. Berlin has not fallen yet. So does that mean that when Berlin falls, and all of my Jap units are hanging out in Eastern Europe, Belo, etc., that I cannot claim those territories as Japan income? Even though my units are sitting there?

    That is correct. Germany is still considered “in the game”. Therefore, all of the territories that germany owns are still German and friendly to Japan but conquerable only to the Allies first.

    If Germany was considered “out of the game” once Berlin fell and you were able to take those territories then the UK would get all of the German controlled UK African territory it currently holds and all German units on the board should be removed once Berlin falls. Trust me, I would have taken that outcome as well.

    @4thmac:

    If that’s true, then I just totally F’ed up on my last Japan move vs. U-505. That means that the Axis benefits by letting Germany fall into the hands of the Allies, and then they march across West Russia, Belo, etc. Looking back, I also should have played Germany totally differently and NOT liberated more German territory so the territories could ultimately go to Japan.

    Not necessarily. for 3 reasons.

    First, if you had hung back Japan and waited for Germany to fall then I would have a lot more US units in Europe once you got there.

    Second, it cost me units to retake those territories Germany took and if you hadn’t traded them with me then I would have been able to concentrate more forces to attack Germany and you would have had less units to defend with because Germany’s income would have been less.

    Lastly, I would have not sent a bunch of sacrificial Russian units to help contain Germany if you hadn’t tried to expand with them and Japan’s taking of Russia would have been significantly more costly.

    @4thmac:

    This may cost me the game, if not significantly delay a victory.

    Absolutely. I’m actually surprised that you haven’t come across this situation before. I guess all of your wins have been decisive. In that case, I won’t be offering you a 7 bid in the future.

  • 2007 AAR League

    I’ve only had one game get this far vs. Amon-Sul.  He introduced me to the rule that friendly powers can claim lands, but we played the second half of the game as if you did not have to concede the land to the enemy first before claiming it as income.

    In the end it helped him more that we played that way (he was Axis and the situation was very similar to this).  The rule helps the Allies since the Axis has more territories it must gain in order to win.  This considerably changes how I should have played the last several rounds.  I’ll have to stew over this a while before proceeding.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    It’s also a good way of preventing the enemy from getting the land.  Just don’t take it and leave it in contol of the fallen power and work around it.  Much in the same way you might not liberate a capital so you can keep the land around it for a few more rounds.


  • @4thmac:

    THe situation:

    Germany captures Congo from the Brits early in the game.  Then Berlin falls, with Congo still under the German flag.  Can Japan move a land unit into Congo to take control of that territory and claim it for income?

    The Congo technically isn’t “liberated” when Japan moves in.  But Germany can’t do jack squat with it, so does it become idle until one of the Allies comes along?  That would seem crazy since the Allies would presumably benefit from leaving one of their territories under foreign control, because Japan could beat them back and earn income where the Germans could not.

    LHTR 1.3 rulebook seems unclear on this issue.  Help!

    No.

    Germany retains control of the Congo.

    Japan can only take the Congo if the Allies recapture the Congo, then Japan recaptures from them.

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