• Hi folks,

    Can’t get a straight answer for this anywhere.

    I know that “islands” are territories that are entirely contained in one sea-zone.  Hawaii, Midway, etc.  Greenland kinda fits this definition, except that it touches the edge of the map.  Other than that, it satisfies the requirement.  What do you think?

    It has been pointed out to me that Greenland’s sea-zone also borders on the UK (and Eire), but I don’t think that disqualifies it as an island… after all, West Indies’ sea-zone also borders on Panama and I don’t think anyone would dispute West Indies’ island status.

    Not that the distinction is so terribly important, but the US NA Island Bases could possibly be taken advantage of in that area if Greenland indeed qualifies.

    Opinions?

    ~Josh


  • I would say it is.

    I never thought about that strategy.  Then again, I never play with NA’s.

  • 2007 AAR League

    I think it would be considered an island


  • Yes Greenland is an island but if you want to take advantage of Greenland in terms of the NA “island bases” than no its not an island

    clearly the intent of that NA is for use in the pacific agianst the Japanese.


  • I would agree with Adam.  The description of the NA is explicit in that it was a strategy for use to push on JAPAN.


  • Adam, I see where you’re coming from but I just don’t agree.  The backstory of the NA that places it in the Pacific is just backstory.  The application of the effects of the NA (or any NA) are separate from the chrome that gives it initial context.

    A comparison:

    If I take the German NA Atlantic Wall (which gives my German Inf a first-cycle bonus when defending against amphibious assaults in grey territories) and I get attacked in Southern Europe via Amphibious assault in the Mediterranean, would you say that I don’t get the Inf bonus because the intent was clearly to bolster German defense against attacks from the Atlantic sea-zones?

    I wouldn’t.  The same reasoning should apply here, no?

    I do appreciate the viewpoint though, and hope to get more.

    ~Josh


  • Greenland is not an island, because it is not entirely contained within the sea zone.

    Page 7 indicates that Italian East Africa is not an island.  Why is this?  It is entirely bordered by a single sea zone.  But it is adjacent to other land territories, which makes it not an island.

    Greenland is not adjacent to another territory, but it is adjacent to the edge of the board.


  • By the way, I believe that Greenland is, actually, considered an island.

    The previous post was for Axis and Allies game purposes only.


  • Likewise Madagascar is an island, but since in game terms it has more than 1 sea zone, it is not an island for purposes of this NA


  • Ditto England

  • 2007 AAR League

    Yeah. Isn’t Greenland way bigger than England (and with far fewer airstrips to boot?) Island bases make sense for the pacific, but not Greenland. Although this NA makes no sense to begin with - what are the fighters landing on when you don’t have island bases?


  • @newpaintbrush:

    By the way, I believe that Greenland is, actually, considered an island.

    The previous post was for Axis and Allies game purposes only.

    You mean, in real life, Greenland doesn’t butt up against the edge of the world?  :wink:

    ~Josh


  • @OutsideLime:

    @newpaintbrush:

    By the way, I believe that Greenland is, actually, considered an island.

    The previous post was for Axis and Allies game purposes only.

    You mean, in real life, Greenland doesn’t butt up against the edge of the world?  :wink:

    ~Josh

    Are you saying that my girlfriend is from Greenland?

    crack pipe lol

    … :?

  • '19 Moderator

    Technicaly Greenland is made up of three large islands but since they are covered with premenant ice this was only reciently discovered… :D


  • Getting back to the actual question….

    I understand why England and Madagascar (and Australia and Japan too) are not considered islands.  Clearly defined and ruled out.  Not a problem.

    I don’t, however, think that you can subjectively decide where on the map (or against which enemy power) a NA applies, though.

    Does Russian Winter not apply to Russian Inf being attacked by the Japanese just because the backstory (which, like all “flavour text” in the OM is printed in a different typeface specifically to separate it from the rules) describes the winter as being difficult for German troops?

    Does Britain’s Radar not work against Japanese air units because the story refers to the Luftwaffe crossing the channel?

    The actual mechanical rule part of the Island Bases NA reads: When moving your air units, you may treat island groups as part of the sea zones containing them.  For example, a fighter (move 4) could travel from Midway to the East Indies in one turn, assuming your side controlled both island groups.

    The Pacific theater is referenced as an example only.  Not as a restriction on usage.

    I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to allow a US player with Island Bases to count the West Indies (which is not in the Pacific) as an island.  It obviously IS one.  (Some people might point out that the West Indies’ sea-zone actually borders on a land territory, unlike every island in the Pacific, which therefore differentiates it and declassifies it as well.  That’s an interesting angle but not valid in my opinion.  The territory of West Indies is certainly contained in one sea-zone.  Nobody said anything about the sea-zone surrounding an island necessarily having to be surrounded by nothing but other sea-zones.)

    If Greenland isn’t an island because it borders the map edge, well, then it can’t be used.  Of course.  But to not allow it just because it’s not in the Pacific theatre?  That’s a subjective (and yes, thematically appropriate, but still subjective) player decision that violates the written rules.

    ~Josh

  • 2007 AAR League

    Here’s another angle: Not all of Greenland shows on the map. Therefore, it cannot be said that All of Greenland is contained within the Sea Zone. That’s the angle of thinking of the real Greenland.

    The other angle, viewing Greenland as it is indicated in the fictitious world of the A&A board, would say that the only part that matters is the A&A version of Greenland, which only borders 1 seazone.

    Here the standard rules become relevant: a sea zone does not include the land territory within it - they are two different zones. The Seazone does not continue along the map edge behind Greenland. Thus, the sea zone around Greenland touches the map edge at two points, one on either side of Greenland, like a horseshoe.

    A horseshoe is not a closed shape. Therefore, the sea zone does not enclose Greenland.

    Also, I think it’s the size of Greenland more than the fact that it is not in the Pacific that speaks against it. I realize the rule says nothing about size, but it fits the backstory of bases on small islands.

    But it’s still a dumb rule. Planes can land on any island. Therefore, each island must be assumed to have an airbase from the beginning. It doesn’t take a move to move from in the air in a sea zone to landing on an AC in the same sea zone.  And it makes no sense that it takes the same # of moves to fly through a seazone and land on an AC in the next seazone as it does to stop and land 1 seazone earlier.


  • A horseshoe is not a closed shape. Therefore, the sea zone does not enclose Greenland.

    Now that, my friend, is sound reasoning.  I’m convinced.  Greenland is not an island then, in Axis and Allies.

    ~Josh

  • 2007 AAR League

    Well I’m glad that for once on these forums my answer is accepted as definitive. If only sound reasoning would prevail in the political threads…

  • 2007 AAR League

    @OutsideLime:

    A horseshoe is not a closed shape. Therefore, the sea zone does not enclose Greenland.

    Now that, my friend, is sound reasoning. I’m convinced. Greenland is not an island then, in Axis and Allies.

    ~Josh

    I disagree, I believe Greenland does qualify as an Island.  Here’s the rules definition of an Island:

    Islands:
    An island is a territory located entirely inside one sea zone. A sea zone can contain at most one group of islands, which is considered one territory. It is not possible to split up land-based units so that they’re on different islands in the same group.

    Greenland is located entirely inside sz2, there is no part of greenland that is located outside that seazone.  No where does it state that the seazone must completely surround or enclose the Island, so the fact that Greenland and sz2 butt up against the edge of the map is irrelevant.


  • @jsp4563:

    @OutsideLime:

    A horseshoe is not a closed shape. Therefore, the sea zone does not enclose Greenland.

    Now that, my friend, is sound reasoning. I’m convinced. Greenland is not an island then, in Axis and Allies.

    ~Josh

    I disagree, I believe Greenland does qualify as an Island.  Here’s the rules definition of an Island:

    Islands:
    An island is a territory located entirely inside one sea zone. A sea zone can contain at most one group of islands, which is considered one territory. It is not possible to split up land-based units so that they’re on different islands in the same group.

    Greenland is located entirely inside sz2, there is no part of greenland that is located outside that seazone.  No where does it state that the seazone must completely surround or enclose the Island, so the fact that Greenland and sz2 butt up against the edge of the map is irrelevant.

    My argument is that Greenland is not an island for the Axis and Allies game, because on the game map, Greenland is contiguous to the edge of the map board.  Therefore the territory is not entirely WITHIN the sea zone (per original rules).  By the definition you gave, it is even clearer, an island is a territory LOCATED ENTIRELY INSIDE one sea zone.

    Greenland is NOT entirely inside the sea zone, as you can see, because you cannot place a naval unit north of Greenland, because of the edge of the map.

    Really, Greenland sticks into a sea zone, rather than being entirely contained within a sea zone.

    If you think about it, the sea zone is an arbiitrary defined zone that by definition ends at the end of the game map.  But Greenland does NOT end at the end of the game map in real life.  So Greenland is NOT entirely within a single sea zone, even if the other sea zone(s) that would border Greenland are not on the game map.

    Italian East Africa is another example of this.  It is “entirely within” a sea zone, but it is adjacent to other land territories.  But Italian East Africa is arguably not an island.  By extension, I argue (given the previously mentioned facts) that Greenland is not an island.

    Yes!  Another trademark lengthy response.  Mwaahahah.

    No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent.

    Ah, beer.  An owl’s best frend.

Suggested Topics

Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures

41

Online

17.0k

Users

39.3k

Topics

1.7m

Posts