• 2007 AAR League

    Would it be a bad idea to build 2 ICs on J1 in Kwangtung/Manchuria in order to get 6 tanks on the mainland on J2? I think it would make Japan reach Moscow faster and with more troops. They have enough existing units on mainland and on the islands to use on J1/J2 that they won’t be hurt by not producing any land units on J1.

    Please post your opinions.


  • Octo when he came to these boards was a fan of 2 IC’s on J1.  He changed his mind after 1-2 games and became a 1 IC on J1 player.  We also have a number of folks who are advocates of NO IC’s for Japan on J1, but instead 4 TRN (with 2 IPC of the bid to Japan)

    You ahve a lot of units on Japan and surrounding islands to start.  And typically by J1 you only have 1 TRN (the one in SZ59 is usually sunk by the Brits).  So, if you build 2 IC’s, you may get 6 units built in Asia, but only 2 units TRN’d in.  While if you build 1 IC and 2 TRN, on J2 you get 9 units to Asia.


  • I like one on J1 and one on J2.
    And always in Manchuria and Kwangtung, never FIC it takes way to long to go India -> Caucus -> Moscow. 
    Better to go the north route or the chinese route and not have to worry about british or caucus defenders.


  • Depends on your battle plan.  If you are doing a Southern Strike as Japan, FIC first is a GOOD idea… if you can get away with it based on UK1 moves…

  • Moderator

    I like no IC on J1, so I am not a fan of two.  I tried it a few times, but I think it becomes unnessary if you can’t fill the 11 unit max (with 1 IC), and 14 unit (with 2).

    I think lately I’ve been waiting until J3 when I have the excess cash to buy the IC and still place 8 units on Japan.

    Another reason I like to wait is I don’t want to commit too early to defending a certain area and make sure the Allies are going KGF.


  • Even if the Allies feint KGF and then go KJF, a Manch IC can be very valuable…

    You still get units on the mainland, and have full production on Japan AND the freedom to use TRN’s for naval fodder.  Allows you to hold your ground better against Russia sinc ehtye are so limitted on what forces they can send toward Japan without giving up the ghost agianst Germany.

    And if the Allies DO go KGF, you have an extra 5 units in Asia at the end of Round 3.

  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    I am of the opinion that an IC for Japan by latest turn 3 is a necessity for Japan. I think 2 is overdoing it for the reasons Switch mentioned earlier- more units at the end of J2 with the IC and TRN build. Also you need the TRNs to get units off the Main Island and you will need them for Naval fodder should a US navy come a calling. You can’t get enough units to Mos fast enough without the IC.

  • Moderator

    I do prefer Man over Fic, but I’m not sure how you get 5 extra units.

    If I’m doing my math right if you go J1 IC you get:
    J2 - 9 units
    J3 - 11 units

    3 trns on J1 and 1 trn J2 you get:
    J2 - 8 units
    J3 - 9 units

    Which is only +3, but of course you sacrifice some flexibility.

    Now, if you go IC on J1, with 1 trn on J2 that means you need to be earning 35+ at the end on J1 to get up to full capicity.  However, If I’m earning 35+ on J1 then sure I can still go IC on J2 and get full capicity out of Japan with about 7 inf placed there.

    Lately, I’ve been seeing some Allied stacks in Sin and/or Yak and I’m just kind of against making the IC commitment on J1, when it doesn’t really add much, basically only 1 unit.
    I’ve been only seeing about 32-33 IPC collected on J1 (chi and possibly bury), so it really doesn’t make sense to me sink 15 into an IC if you know you aren’t going to be able to get 11 units to Asia on J2, especially since I don’t like to defend Fic on J1.   🙂


  • Well, let’s go ahead and assume the bids at $31 for the IC and 2 TRN and $32 for 4 TRN (pretty popular on these boards); and with the Kwang TRN being sunk on UK1.

    W/ IC:
    J1:  2 units to Asia
    J2:  9 units to Asia, build 4th TRN
    J3:  11 units to Japan  $33 needed to keep IC and TRNs full (Bury and China)

    W/ 4 TRN J1:
    J1:  2 units to Asia
    J2:  8 units to Asia
    J3:  8 units to Asia
    OK, only 4 exta units  😄

    Furthermore, with the IC purchase, you have your build limit issue dealt with immediately.  Otherwise as Japan ALL you can do is fill TRN’s and nothign else.

    Lastly, the J1 IC allows you to get units into Asia at the rate of 9 units a turn even if Japan has to start building Navy on J2 to offset a US Pacific build-up, using the 3 TRN they have at the end of J1 and the IC.  If Japan has to start a naval build up in J2 but has not yet built an IC, their supplies to Asia are dramatically reduced since they can only produce a total of 8 units.


  • Japan does not need tanks on the mainland early.  Japan needs tanks on the mainland late.  Where will Japan go with its tanks?  Russia can trade infantry for tanks, which isn’t GREAT for Russia, but it certainly isn’t great for Japan.

    Therefore, I believe that rushing to build ICs for J2 is not practicable.  Building ONE, perhaps, particularly if UK builds an Indian IC; but I think even then it is not strictly necessary.

    Japan should wait for the US build.  If the US goes to the Pacific, Japan can put those 15 IPCs towards fighters to stall the US; Japan won’t be building more than eight units anyways if it builds transports-infantry-fighters.  If the US goes to Germany, Japan can pop an IC in French Indochina, and stick to transports, then infantry and tanks.


  • Japan is, like most other nations, and INF monster.

    Add in some ART for punch, then start mixing in a few ARM as your income climbs backed up by your preserved initial FIGs and lastly a couple of BOM’s to maximize punch for the final strike, and you have a serious powerhouse.

    With Japan with 1 IC built on J1, then doing the 4th TRN on J2, and then a 5th TRN (for island raiding first, then shuttle duty from FIC to Egypt) and doing 2 INF, 1 ART built in Asia, and INF plus a couple of ART for the TRN’s, Japan can face down the allied Forces with 2’s on 2’s, backed up by Japan’s Flying Tanks (the SIX FIGs they start with) to make nice steady progress through Asia with minimal loses, and nice punch.

    And once the income REALLY starts to climb, and you have 6 INF, 5 ART a turn being built, and still have left over cash (income over $38), you can upgrade ART to ARM on a 1 for $1 basis, or save up for AF, or a bit of both.


  • Lol am I wrong to build only tanks on the main land?
    I dont build additional navy usually and just use my combined fleet for defense.
    I start building 30IPCs worth of tanks a turn and throw them full force at the undefended Russian East.
    Any extra money I get I save and add onto my navy since my Mainland ICs are maxed out.  It works pretty well for getting to russian fast and catching them off guard.


  • Sure, you get there fast, but with no fodder, and limitted punch.

    Building 6 ARM a turn to go after Moscow is being a gnat as Japan when you need to be a dragon…

  • Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    W/ 4 TRN J1:
    J1:  2 units to Asia
    J2:  8 units to Asia
    J3:  8 units to Asia
    OK, only 4 exta units  😄

    Actually, it is only 2 units.   🙂
    If you go 4 trns on J1 you can get 10 units to Asia.   🙂
    1 inf wake
    1 inf oki
    2 inf, 1 rt, 1 arm jap
    2 inf phil
    2 inf ei
    Or 9 units if you use the bor inf first.

    And if you go 3 trns and inf on J1, then a trn on J2 as well, you pick up that 10th inf for J3 instead on J2.

    @ncscswitch:

    Lastly, the J1 IC allows you to get units into Asia at the rate of 9 units a turn even if Japan has to start building Navy on J2 to offset a US Pacific build-up, using the 3 TRN they have at the end of J1 and the IC. If Japan has to start a naval build up in J2 but has not yet built an IC, their supplies to Asia are dramatically reduced since they can only produce a total of 8 units.

    That is misleading.

    How is that any better than if I buy an IC on J2 and 6-7 inf?
    I still get 9-10 units and now I have an IC as well.

    The gain is at best 1 inf per rd for the J1 IC, but with picking up the inf from the islands it is really a wash by J2-3.

    Just b/c you may only place 7 units on Japan doesn’t mean you can’t get 9-10 to Asia without an IC.   😉

    @newpaintbrush:

    Japan does not need tanks on the mainland early. Japan needs tanks on the mainland late. Where will Japan go with its tanks? Russia can trade infantry for tanks, which isn’t GREAT for Russia, but it certainly isn’t great for Japan.

    Therefore, I believe that rushing to build ICs for J2 is not practicable. Building ONE, perhaps, particularly if UK builds an Indian IC; but I think even then it is not strictly necessary.

    Japan should wait for the US build. If the US goes to the Pacific, Japan can put those 15 IPCs towards fighters to stall the US; Japan won’t be building more than eight units anyways if it builds transports-infantry-fighters. If the US goes to Germany, Japan can pop an IC in French Indochina, and stick to transports, then infantry and tanks.

    Yeah, this is the way I think of it.  I like to see how Japan does at Pearl and then what the US intends to do before I invest 15 IPC in and object that can’t move.


  • @DarthMaximus:

    Yeah, this is the way I think of it.  I like to see how Japan does at Pearl and then what the US intends to do before I invest 15 IPC in and object that can’t move.

    And that is a reactive strat.

    I prefer pro-active as Japan.  Germany’s moves are pretty much dictated by the Allies from the start with little leeway within just a turn or two if the allies are going KGF.  So it is up to Japan to crack things open and make things happen for the Axis.  So I tend to make the Allies react to me instead of the other way around… amke them fight my war instead of theirs 🙂

  • Moderator

    I don’t know, this sounds pretty reactive to me.  😉

    _Lastly, the J1 IC allows you to get units into Asia at the rate of 9 units a turn even if Japan has to start building Navy on J2 to offset a US Pacific build-up, using the 3 TRN they have at the end of J1 and the IC. _


  • There is being proactive, reactive, and foolish 🙂

    In the above scenario though I am still landing/building my units in Asia as I had planned, but also making sure that I don;t get my backside bitten off by the US (meanwhile, the trade off is Germany gets to be more pro-active in that scenario 🙂 )


  • @ncscswitch:

    @DarthMaximus:

    Yeah, this is the way I think of it.  I like to see how Japan does at Pearl and then what the US intends to do before I invest 15 IPC in and object that can’t move.

    And that is a reactive strat.

    I prefer pro-active as Japan.  Germany’s moves are pretty much dictated by the Allies from the start with little leeway within just a turn or two if the allies are going KGF.  So it is up to Japan to crack things open and make things happen for the Axis.  So I tend to make the Allies react to me instead of the other way around… amke them fight my war instead of theirs 🙂

    If you are playing rock-paper-scissors, and you have the option of waiting for your opponent to show his or her hand, are you going to be PROACTIVE and show your hand first, or REACTIVE and wait for your opponent to show his or her hand first?

    The Allies are not locked into either KGF or KJF until after the US turn.

    The way I see it, Japan needs 3-4 transports ASAP anyways.  Japan simply waits on an IC until it sees the US turn.  If the US goes KGF, then Japan can put down an IC and not lose much by it (it will have a stronger Pacific position and have an extra transport to hit Australia/Pearl/New Zealand/Africa with).  If the US goes KJF, then it’s good that Japan has IPCs for fighters.

    It would ideally be better if you KNEW, as Japan, what the US would be GOING to do.  But you cannot.  So you wait a bit.


  • I play without a bid, and my standard first turn buy is 3 transports and 2 infantry, and if the kwangtung transport managed to not be destroyed, then I make it 2 Trans/1 sub/1 inf.  I wait until turn 2 to buy and IC, along with a transport.  It helps to really move the troops off of the home island quickly and break into russia early with amphibious assaults.  the IC usually goes in indochina  since the 4 transports are shutling troops off to the soviet far east.


  • why the sub why not 2 transports and ic if you have a 1ipc bid if not then 2tanks and 1 artillery you have 8inf in the immediate vicinity of japan that can transport in 1 turn. only 2 other unites other tan inf. that balances it out more i try to complament my tanks with inf not the other way around when it comes to transports…

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    in a KJF you want ICs.

    I have seen Japan hold all their Round 1 income for Round 2 before.  That was interesting. (they had a 9 IPC bid for infantry in Asia.)


  • @cyan:

    why the sub why not 2 transports and ic if you have a 1ipc bid if not then 2tanks and 1 artillery you have 8inf in the immediate vicinity of japan that can transport in 1 turn. only 2 other unites other tan inf. that balances it out more i try to complament my tanks with inf not the other way around when it comes to transports…

    We dont play with a bid though, so that lucky 1 IPC bid isnt available.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    No bid you probably want to go transports.  You’ll need the flexibility to get Japanese feet on the streets of Africa fast.


  • @Cobert:

    @cyan:

    why the sub why not 2 transports and ic if you have a 1ipc bid if not then 2tanks and 1 artillery you have 8inf in the immediate vicinity of japan that can transport in 1 turn. only 2 other unites other tan inf. that balances it out more i try to complament my tanks with inf not the other way around when it comes to transports…

    We dont play with a bid though, so that lucky 1 IPC bid isnt available.

    other option waas without the bid because you said no bid before the longer 2trn,2tanks and 1 art bid was for without a bid. 2x8+2x5+4+30. the 2trn, 1ic was for with the bid. 16+15=31


  • @cyan:

    other option waas without the bid because you said no bid before the longer 2trn,2tanks and 1 art bid was for without a bid. 2x8+2x5+4+30. the 2trn, 1ic was for with the bid. 16+15=31

    I see I see.

    I still like to build 3 transports or 2 and a sub (depends on kwangtung transport), since I like having 4 in the water by turn 2.

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