• when would an ic go in france rither for the allies or for the germans.


  • Allies:
    When they are maxed out on production and transports so that the ONLY way to get more units to Europe is an IC (usually British, no real way to max out USA if you are doing a good shuck).  This might be advisable in one of those marathon games where Germany has about 100 INF on it to add extra fodder for the final push on Berlin

    Axis:
    Only in a German Naval Dominance strat, which personally I think is a hairbrained idea (eventhough I am the one who posted it to the boards many months ago).


  • the German naval dominance can be done but if German player does just a small mistake in first 2-3 rounds considering naval moves it can fall down easily and Berlin with it, but if it surprises the opponent and not to many mistakes are done than it can work

    personally i like to spend German IPC to naval power, maybe i sometimes overexagarate but i have an impression that Germany has to fight a sea war(not in every case, if USA and UK go fully on naval power than no, but if not (as in the vast majority of games)then there is some space for Germany in the Atlantic and the surounding seas
    thats just my opinion 🙂


  • Just tried the German naval strat tonight and I am impressed.  It caught the Allies totally off guard and by the time they adjusted to the fleet off of western Europe I was marching through streets of Moscow.  I would not get to crazy with naval purchases because Germany can get  pretty bare.  It’s a good strat and worth a go if you’re looking for something new.


  • It is a one-trick pony, like several other non-Europe option for Germany (Canadian Shield for example).  Once you have seen it once, you are not likely to be severely messed up by it again.


  • @ncscswitch:

    Axis:
    Only in a German Naval Dominance strat, which personally I think is a hairbrained idea (eventhough I am the one who posted it to the boards many months ago).

    i couldn’t find where you posted it coulld you explian it a little.


  • Basically it is a way to boost the German Fleet unification and to challenege the Allies in the North Atlantic.

    Assumption:  Africa bid large enough to allow for Egypt to be taken w/o using Med Fleet.

    Basic Moves/Concept:
    Germany opens with build of an AC in the Baltic, IC in France, and balance as INF.
    Germany uses forces in Africa for Egypt, counters Russia as possible in central Europe, but with a focus of pulling back and stacking.
    Med Fleet goes to SZ13, as does the SZ8 SUB, combined with FIGs to kill the UKBB, probably w/o loss
    Land 1 INF in Gibraltar to prevent a RAF counter-strike on the Med Fleet.
    Land 2 FIGs on the new AC in the Baltic, build the IC in Paris

    On G2, you link the fleets in SZ7 AND drop additional naval units into SZ7 from your build using the new IC, a maximum of 1/3 of Germany income for navy (the balance is used for land units to reinforce against Russia and to start building up to push them back).

    Germany ends up with a fleet that is somethign like this…
    1 AC
    2 FIG
    1 BB
    4 SUB
    1 DST
    2 TRN
    Units built on G1 (2 TRN most likely so as to maintain invasion threat of London and USA, as well as provide fodder against Allied counter attacks)

    This will compare to an Allied fleet of
    1 BB (UK)
    2 TRN (UK)
    2 TRN (USA)
    1 SUB (USSR)
    1 DST (USA)

    Add in land based FIGs to a strike on the Allied fleet(s) and Germany gets control of the North Atlantic for several turns while the US and UK try to build up enough to counter that fleet.  From SZ7, Germany can threaten London, secure Algeria and East Africa, and threaten Eastern Canada.

    With the heavy initial push by Germany with their fleet, UK has to play more conservative… building land units to defend against Sea Lion on UK1, and possibly again on UK2.  USA cannot send their ships to UK to reinforce, or they will lose them.  Also, with the strong naval pressence by Germany, UK is likely to have to save up cash one round in order to drop enough units the following turn to not immediately die.  So this REALLY slows down UK, and significanly slows the US.

    The problems with the move are pretty easy to see though…

    • USA/UK land in Algeria on Turn1.  Combined Fleet is only in range of German Med Fleet and any Western European FIGs.  They German Med Fleet is then blocked from a link-up in SZ7.
    • Lack of land units in Europe on Turn 1 AND Turn 2 means Russia is going to gain a LOT of ground, and extra income, which will sorely press Germany for SEVERAL turns, and even slightly bad dice by Germany will give Russia control of Ukraine, West Russia, Karelia, Norway and Belo for as long as they want to hold them, and be able to trade Eastern and Balkans for a turn or 3.
    • Germany can be kicked out of Africa by a UK counter from India, and won;t have the ability to shuttle reinforcements in using the Med Fleet.

    As I said, as a surprise move, it might be worthwhile.  And in a multi-player FTF game it could be devastating (you need good Allied coordination to counter it).
    Otherwise, it is a move that falls into the “Oh, that is interesting, but won’t work” category.


  • @ncscswitch:

    FTF game

    what is it


  • FTF is Face to Face.

    A real life game, sitting at a table, with dice, no sims, and play proceeding quickly form move to move.

  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    One TRN from the EUS into SZ12 stalls that a bit. It is a sacrificial lamb to be sure but it blocks the link for a turn or puts it where it doesn’t want to be giving the US and UK time to get more boats in the water. It buys time for Geramany I would think but not enough to justify the mess it creates on the Eastern Front.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I always viewed the W. Europe IC as a method for Germany to put submarines into the water in a secure fashion and in a location to prevent England from building fleet due to the loss of relatively cheap submarines added to the power of the Luftwaffe.

    If you go this route, never spend more then 8 IPC for navy a round with Germany.  You need to have 25% more income then Russia for the building of land forces.

    As for the allies, once I take and HOLD W. Europe (by Hold I mean it isn’t falling in the next few rounds), if it happens to be held with America, I’ll put the IC in.  If England’s just amazing and is earning more then 36 IPC a round, I might put an IC for them in W. Europe if they own it in the same circumstances.


  • I agree that the WEU german IC is a one trick pony because now the guys I play with are going to develop a strat to get around it.  However I do enjoy the buffer it gives you before the massed invasion.  I still think INF is the way to go for Germany but man is it fun to watch the allies try to figure out what to do with the WEU IC

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    The strat to get around it is to kill Japan with America and focus on Germany with Russia and Bomb the crud outta Germany with England.  Sign off Africa unless you do extremely well with Egypt.  And you can do it well.

    Other option is to just keep hitting the Atlantic fleet and force Germany to allow it to be sunk or invest too much into rebuilding it that Russia walks into Europe almost unopposed.

  • 2007 AAR League

    @frimmel:

    One TRN from the EUS into SZ12 stalls that a bit. It is a sacrificial lamb to be sure but it blocks the link for a turn or puts it where it doesn’t want to be giving the US and UK time to get more boats in the water.

    I don’t think this block works.  Luftwaffe can take out the transport during combat move, and still allow the link in non-combat move.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yup.

    The best block is to put the BB, 2 Trn from England in SZ 12 and add a DST, 2 TRN from USA and a Sub from Russia.  He’ll have to engage with boats which negates a link in SZ 7 since they already engaged and have no movement left.


  • @Jennifer:

    Yup.

    The best block is to put the BB, 2 Trn from England in SZ 12 and add a DST, 2 TRN from USA and a Sub from Russia.  He’ll have to engage with boats which negates a link in SZ 7 since they already engaged and have no movement left.

    Assuming German move of Atlantic sub and Mediterranean fleet together to Gibraltar, that’s 1 transport, 1 sub, 1 battleship, 5 fighters, and 1 bomber (attack 25, count 10) against 4 transport, sub, destroyer, battleship (defense 13, count 😎

    Germany kills the entire Allied fleet.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Assuming the submarine lived and didn’t die, which is typically the case in Gibraltar.

    And it DOES stop a unification of the German fleet.

    Though, I really don’t see the issue.  America/England can crush a German fleet in a short set of rounds without any effect other then a 2 round delay in Asia.  And Russia’s capable of keeping a German play who’s wasting time defending boats in SZ 7 from making any progress in Asia.


  • Which leaves Africa for Germany…
    Or the Middle East for Japan… one or the other.


  • "Assuming German move of Atlantic sub and Mediterranean fleet together to Gibraltar, that’s 1 transport, 1 sub, 1 battleship, 5 fighters, and 1 bomber (attack 25, count 10) against 4 transport, sub, destroyer, battleship (defense 13, count Cool

    Germany kills the entire Allied fleet."

    @Jennifer:

    Assuming the submarine lived and didn’t die, which is typically the case in Gibraltar.

    And it DOES stop a unification of the German fleet.

    Though, I really don’t see the issue.  America/England can crush a German fleet in a short set of rounds without any effect other then a 2 round delay in Asia.  And Russia’s capable of keeping a German play who’s wasting time defending boats in SZ 7 from making any progress in Asia.

    With sub, battleship, and fighter attacking an enemy battleship, there is a good chance that the German Atlantic sub does not die.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Germany’s going to have Africa for at least 2 rounds anyway, Switch.  Probably three because you have to chase them down.


  • Give Germany a slowed Allied naval set-up, a strong position in SZ7, AND Africa, and Russia is fracked, maybe even UK itself.

    Germany with a Navy AND $50 IPC?  Have tyou learned nothing form the damage that has been doen to the fleet that the US spent 17 turns building up that is now a shadow of itself off Tokyo, and is only 1-2 turns from total anhiliation?  And that with Japan only spending money on fleet for a couple of turns?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Japan’s spent a heck of a lot more on fleet then America, so you’re statement of two turns of build up is rather ridiculous. (Besides, it was more then 2 turns, it’s more like 5 turns of ship building for Japan vs 4 turns for America.)

    And I’ve learned a lot, actually.  Like how to royally screw you up because you’re clueless on certain aspects of the game.  This one has been a very serious intelligence coup for me.  I know what to do to make you do what I want you too.  Now I just have a few more fealers for the nitty gritty before I have you down pat.


  • Perhaps then I should just take London on G18 and be done with it eh?  Or shall I embarass you with the full Global Domination?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Whatever you think you have time for.  The game was over when the allies had no actual successes in the first three rounds of play due to the dice.  Everything else has been bad axis strategy coupled with dragging the game out.


  • Right… Bad Axis strat has the Axis collecting $120 IPC’s, give or take a few, for the past several rounds…

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