Strategic bombing your way to a win

I can see that personal experience and theory would seem to be two different things esp. with SBRs - most of the time they are not shot down and it seems like gravy. But when it does get hit - poof - that’s 15 IPCs. If you get lucky for a few rounds I can see that it would be easy/tempting to ignore the math that says on the whole SBRs only net 0.4 IPC gains against the enemy.

It’s a gamble pretty much like russian roulette - most of the time it pays off (you’re safe) but when it doesn’t, it’s bad. Still, that 0.4 is in the positive range so if there’s nothing else for a bomber to do, why not? And, since it is close to an even exchange, it makes sense especially if you already have more IPCs than the other - equal exchanges between unequal players always favour the stronger side. And I suppose if it’s your free initial bomber you’re not really losing any IPCs you’ve invested. That’s about all there is to say (except for opportunity cost)

By all means, try strategic bombing me.

PLEASE.

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You see that glazed look in my eyes, right?  It’s the same look I get when I hear “free food” or “free beer” or “let’s just get naked.”

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Or, um, wait.  No.  Yes, I mean, strategic bombing.  Good idea.  Yes, I think you should use it.  (nods head vigorously)

Note that I say that strat bombing IS sound in some games, and it is also sound when US has superfortresses.  Srsly.

I admit, on paper SBR looks bad.  But even in LL SBR comes out halfway decently.

And realistically, how many times have you been attacked by dozens of aircraft and seen your AA gun shoot down your own planes?

In LL you do not lose bombers, so hardly a fair evaluation.

In LL you loose 3 IPC and your opponent looses 3 IPC though.  So it’s like trading money.  Instead of normally when you can go 400 SBR runs without loosing a single bomber, averaging 3.5 IPC

But you keep the bomber and never risk losing 15 IPC.  THAT is one of my main issues with LL.

On that I will most heartedly agree with you.

The other thing I hate about LL is that in AAR the axis get SUCH an advantage it isn’t even remotely funny.  Not impossible to over come, but you may as well just give up the Atlantic period, for a few rounds.  Save your money, then dump a large fleet in the water at the same time.

Because of the way LL works with SBRs, in a LL game it is a COMPLETELY VIABLE STRATEGY for the Allies to SBR Germany into oblivion.

The Allies can never lose a BOM.
USA trades income with Germany 1 for 1 AT WORST, usually about 5 German to 4 American ratio.  So USA just gets 7 BOM (first 3 builds 2 BOM each) and SBRs Germany for $16 IPC per round.
UK also buys 2 BOM and SBR’s Germany for another $10 a turn, losing about $8 of their own in the process.

So Germany is now playing with an income that is reduced by $26, so they only get about $15 to $20 to spend to face off against Russia that is getting $20 to $30
And the balance of US and UK money (about $25 US, $15 UK) goes into TRN fleet and amphib units.

GERMANY DIES A CERTAIN DEATH in AAR/LL

Not that the game needs to be changed, but what if you just got rid of SBR and made Bombers a little cheaper (or attack on a 5)?

Bombers are FINE in ADS.  It is that fracked up Low Luck crap that causes the problem… NOT the Bombers.

I just feel that bombers are too expensive for what they do. The game might be more interesting if they were a better value and people would buy more of them. Well, it’d be different anyway.

Or you could add a new unit, a fighter/bomber. Same range as a fighter, same attack/defence as a bomber, (or  4/2 or something like that).

@froodster:

I just feel that bombers are too expensive for what they do. The game might be more interesting if they were a better value and people would buy more of them. Well, it’d be different anyway.

Or you could add a new unit, a fighter/bomber. Same range as a fighter, same attack/defence as a bomber, (or  4/2 or something like that).

Everything but infantry is overpriced in one way or another.

If everything were completely cost effective, there would be less element of decision making in the game.  As it is, you must decide which costs inefficiencies you will live with.

5 Bombers, Switch, not 7 American Bombers.

Bomber in LL does 3.5 IPC in damage and takes 2.5 IPC in damage in return.  So for two bombers your result is 7 IPC in damage given and 5 IPC in damage taken. 5 to 7 ratio in your favor.

5 * 3.5 = 17.5  Germany is 10, S. Europe is 6, 16 max damage you can deal.  The extra bombers are superfulous.

Now, I have put together a Russian Bomber and 2 British bombers.  I have 8 Bombers total for 28 IPC in damage PER ROUND to Germany.  Germany has Africa (most of it, England has the two German territories, Madagascar and FWA) so after the SBRs Germany’s hovering around 1 IPC for every 1.4 IPC Russia has.

@Jennifer:

5 Bombers, Switch, not 7 American Bombers.

Bomber in LL does 3.5 IPC in damage and takes 2.5 IPC in damage in return.  So for two bombers your result is 7 IPC in damage given and 5 IPC in damage taken. 5 to 7 ratio in your favor.

5 * 3.5 = 17.5  Germany is 10, S. Europe is 6, 16 max damage you can deal.  The extra bombers are superfulous.

Now, I have put together a Russian Bomber and 2 British bombers.  I have 8 Bombers total for 28 IPC in damage PER ROUND to Germany.  Germany has Africa (most of it, England has the two German territories, Madagascar and FWA) so after the SBRs Germany’s hovering around 1 IPC for every 1.4 IPC Russia has.

Germany will not be sitting on its hands while it waits for the Allies to build all these bombers.

Germany won’t get any further then it normally does while the Allies builds these bombers.  We’re only talking 2 turns.  How much of an advantage can you actually get, considering it takes a few turns to even start to make Russia fall back.

@Jennifer:

Germany won’t get any further then it normally does while the Allies builds these bombers.  We’re only talking 2 turns.  How much of an advantage can you actually get, considering it takes a few turns to even start to make Russia fall back.

Hey, build bombers by all means.

I LIKE BOMBERS

WEE!

Well for one thing, that BOM build takes resources, and that means resources not spent on Navy, or land units being transported to Africa.

So the “gain” that Germany is going to make is compensating for the loss of income to SBR by padding their income using Africa.  At the same time, they also weaken the Birts so that SBR’s are about all they can accomplish due to lack of funds.  Loss of Africa also effectively shields Southern form SBR (unless you are flying in from Caucuses, which requires another round lost to get the BOMs into position, and leaves them potentially vulnerable.

Lastly, it will allow Germany to sweep the North Atlantic free of shipping.  Yes, the Kreigsmarine will die accomplishing that, and perhaps a few Luftwaffe units as well… but cleared oceans means 100% security for Germany in the West, South and North.  That leaves the entire Whermact with ONE target… Russia.

Yes, but you more then make up for it later when Germany’s not earning much of anything and you are omnipotently taking anything you want back.  Also, those bombers are still combat units you can use for engagements instead.

Damage from SBR is limited, and the more territories Germany gains (Africa, central Europe) the more immune they are to those SBR’s.

And the AA fire WILL take a toll on those BOM’s over time, and in a couple of turns of German and Japan advance, UK can;t afford to even replace a BOM with a single turn of revenue…