The most important seazone



  • After the most important territory one, I got curious about this. After the two polls, I’m gonna have a third, “what is the most important area?” question, comparing the two winners. Here’s some explanations for my picks.

    1. SZ15: This seemed like the most obvious choice, it’s a major focus for Germany in the first turn, and in many games Britain fights tooth and nail to control the Suez, just to pass fleets through SZ15, in either direction. Controlling it means dominance of the region for whoever has it.

    2. SZ35: One of the hardest decisions in Britain’s first turn is what to do with the fleet in this seazone, and it can be incredibly influential in deciding the outcome of the early game. If Japan wipes out the fleet here, India is potentially gone that turn, almost definately the turn after. The British fleet will sometimes connect with the one off Australia, or if the Suez is by some miracle still open (it happens), make a dash for SZ15, moving a regionally weak pacific fleet into the Mediteranean, giving Britain the most powerful Atlantic Navy.

    3. SZ5: Germany’s crucial Seazone, what it does with its fleet can decide how soon Western Allied intervention hits European shores. a Weak defence of ships here can mean a grizzly end at the hand of British airpower, whereas an overly zealous offense can dwindle your forces early, and open the way for Allied dominance of the Atlantic.

    4. SZ52: Not only is it a crucial first turn (yet ‘mostly’ indisputed) move to wipe out the US fleet at Pearl, but it’s an important staging ground for an American counter attack. And American pacific buildup. Or a Japanese aggressive defence, or even in rare occasions, assault on the Western US.

    5. Here’s the underdog of my poll. I picked it because it’s logistically useful for Japan to control, and more useful for the US. It’s a pivot point that can access any Japanese held zone in the pacific, and is the only entrance to the Philipines, a valuable victory city which is practically impossible to recapture in most situations.

    6. I really expect this one to be picked the most, because there are so many Seazones in the game, and I only touched on a few.



  • SZ5:
    With Germany in control of it, both Eastern and Germany are safe from Allied amphibs.  Lose it, and Germay has to spend too much of their resources on capital defense to maintain a strong offensive agaisnt Russia.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    SZ 60/61  If these are held significantly by the Allies, Japan is neutrallized.



  • Good point Jen, I really should have put them in there. They can neutralize Japan should the Allies control them, and gives Japan awesome projection power over the region with alot of transports. My pick however was SZ15, as I think, although not the most influential to one or two players, it’s the only seazone that will actually influence everyone. Even Japan will be interested in what goes on there.



  • Sea zone 5 is the most important.  If Germany still has units there, Germany and EEur are safe from UK amphibious assault.

    If the UK holds it, it can shuttle units to Karelia or Norway and amphibiously assault WEur, EEur and Germany.  sz5 touches 5 crucial territories.

    With all due respect, sz60 and 61 only become relevant when Japan has already lost the game.  If the US has occupied it in strength, the game has been over for the Axis for a few turns anyways.

    SS



  • Sea Zone 5 would probably be my pick.

    Aside from easily protecting Germany and EEU, it makes for swift transportation of infantry and artillery into the north russian front.


  • 2007 AAR League

    I’d have to say sz5 also for the same reasons switch listed.



  • the black sea; step one conqure caucsus. step two put german battle ship in the caspin sea. step 4  use shore bombardement when attack moscow. 😄


  • 2007 AAR League

    dont forget the transport in the caspian sea for the amphib assult!
    of course, you’ll also need an aircraft carrier for some defense.

    oh yeah, and a destroyer to protect against subs, assuming the Russians counter with a KAZ IC and start dropping subs into the caspian sea as well.

    You can’t just willy nilly start placing battleships into the Caspian sea without planning for every contingency. This isn’t Parchesi.
    Mateooo



  • The ONLY way to risk Russian Subs in teh Caspian Sea is if the game allows for tech rolls and Russian rolls 4 dice for super-subs on R1

    :mrgreen:


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I like heavy bombers for russia, since they can’t build more then 1 bomber a round anyway. 🙂

    And anyone else think it’s unfair that America gets a nice boost in income, Germany and Japan get great increases in come but Russia doesn’t get squat?  Not even more pieces in a decent positon on R1…


  • Moderator

    No sea zones are important.  😄

    You can work around any of them.  And control of any one or two seazones will not end any game.

    Sz 13, 14, 15/16 - are sitting ducks to Allied air in the Atlantic/Cauc/Wrus, come rd 2 or 3, and are unholdable for the Germans without more Axis investment (more ships or a unification with Japan ships).

    Sz 60 - there is always sz 61.
    Sz 61 - there is always sz 60
    Plus you can always use the Kwa sz for Def/Off if the allies are making a Pac play.

    Sz 5 - just protects EE/Ger for 1-3 rds (at best).  Big deal.
    No self respecting Axis player should have to worry about a direct landing in Germany in rds 1-4 anyway.
    The Allies can still land in Nor, Kar, Arch, WE and Afr.
    As the Allies you can simply work around the Baltic fleet and kill it at your leisure.

    UK Seazones - there are too many of them and without having tons of German (or combined Axis) air you simply can’t stop the combined Allied forces from having ships in the Atlantic.

    The closest I would get to sz importance would be Sz 34 and the Egy-Trj connection. (center of board).  Plus it threatens all of the ME and Eastern Afr.

    If the Allies control the Canal, bad news for the Axis, and likewise, should the Axis control it and either get the German ships to the Pac or reinforce the Med with Japan ships then bad news for the Allies.

    But again, a strong air presence should nuetralize its effect.


  • 2007 AAR League

    i agree darth.  i was thinking the same thing that no one sea zone is that crucial,  but if i had to pick one it would be sz 34.  control of the suez can be huge.



  • There are other advantages to the defense of SZ5.

    It is not just securing Germany and Eastern from amphib, but also making the Allies dedicate forces to the destruction of that fleet at some point during the game, so it is a round where AF in particular is used on naval units and not in Europe.  That in itself is an “additional round of security” for Germany.

    The beefed up fleet also presents an attack threat to the Allies, at least to their transport fleets, that is not otherwise present.  The AC allows for an extended range of 2 of Germany’s FIGs that makes a larger amount of the Allied TRN chains subject to potential attack, added to the threat of SUBs that can sail UNDER all but a DST to attack byond a blockade, this can make the naval situation in the North atlantic far more complex, and far more likely to be miscalculated by all but the best players.

    And even against the best players, the Baltic AC is a solid move.  Without it, Germany is likely to lose their fleet FAR quicker (UK1 or 2), and a highly skilled Allied player can take advanatge of that to “stage forward” presenting threat to Western/Germany/Eastern/Karelia/Norway simultaneously.  And that my friends is simply tooo much real estate for Germany to defend early in the game with JUST land forces.  In fact a Turn 2 move into the Baltic by the Allies can be a devastating tactic to the Axis for MANY reasons including economic loss, breach of supply lines on the Russian offensive, reinforcement of Russia, ongoing threat to Berlin, and a death trap for the remnants of the Luftwaffe if Germany tries to counter-attack the Allied fleets.

    It simply is NOT a good idea to let the Allies set up a two-stage TRN network with the US going ECan to SZ2 offloading in UK, and the US and UK then using SZ5 units that are well defended to send TRN troops to any of 5 territories in Europe startign in Turn 2.  And without a reinforcement of SZ5, and Germany keeping control of it into Turn 4+, that WILL happen.

    In the early game, SZ5 is AT LEAST as critical to Germany as Ukraine.



  • couldn’t have said it better myself ncscswitch. I think all of the seazones around Europe are important (areas around W EU, Germ, Norway, EEurope are by far the most however). if allies get control of this area….then it’s a race agaisnt the clock. so long as germany has some form of control, the game is undecided. once germany is out of the naval war…they’re fighting for their lives…rather then having the pressure solely on russia.

    this game is really about Germany and Japan…there isn’t a KBF or a KAF, there is a KRF…but thats germany’s main goal anyways lol

    control of the sea is almost as important as control of the land…sometimes more… Japan needs naval superiority to keep growing in IPC’s…plus they need to hold their islands…Germany just needs to hold their navy as long as possible…the allies need the navy to get troops into Europe…and America needs is in the Pacific to try and stop the japs…

    but id still say that sz 5,6,7 are the most important. cuz once the allies are in…it’s over

    Feds 10


  • Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    There are other advantages to the defense of SZ5.Â

    It is not just securing Germany and Eastern from amphib, but also making the Allies dedicate forces to the destruction of that fleet at some point during the game, so it is a round where AF in particular is used on naval units and not in Europe.  That in itself is an “additional round of security” for Germany.Â

    But leaving the fleet as is does that.  UK just spends it with a 1st rd attack.  Where incidently they’ll probably lose 2 ftrs.  Not bad for no added cash.
    The UK is still going to have to replace those ftrs, b/c Germany still should have 5 ftrs, 1 bom to pester undefended allied ships.
    Even a G1 ftr buy with 10 inf can be good.  UK still can’t get careless with her ships.  With an extra IPC to Germany with bid units, I’d consider 2 ftrs, 7 inf.  You can accomplish the same effect but have more flexibility on land.

    Also 2 ftrs on UK 1 (with a German AC in Baltic), is not really a set back.   IMO, the Allies can always use planes not only to take out the Baltic and Med Fleets but to prevent Japan from going to Egy.

    @ncscswitch:

    The beefed up fleet also presents an attack threat to the Allies, at least to their transport fleets, that is not otherwise present. The AC allows for an extended range of 2 of Germany’s FIGs that makes a larger amount of the Allied TRN chains subject to potential attack, added to the threat of SUBs that can sail UNDER all but a DST to attack byond a blockade, this can make the naval situation in the North atlantic far more complex, and far more likely to be miscalculated by all but the best players.

    I think this goes in the Sea Lion Scare department.  IMO, it is a paper tiger.  UK buys planes + inf on UK1 and this threat is nuetrlized.
    Or buy ships, box them in, and let ger attack.  They kill their fleet, possible planes for UK trns and then US can still land in Nor on US 2 and UK is right back to being a pest on UK 3, since they can buy ships on UK 2.

    The lack of German air also costs you in trading Kar and Ukr which Russia should have reclaimed on R2.

    Plus the bom (or a ftr) could be handy in reclaiming Egy and Trj on G2.

    I think there are a lot better targets on G2 then trying to hit the UK fleet.  I think trading German units for UK or US units is good for the Allies.

    @ncscswitch:

    And even against the best players, the Baltic AC is a solid move. Without it, Germany is likely to lose their fleet FAR quicker (UK1 or 2), and a highly skilled Allied player can take advanatge of that to “stage forward” presenting threat to Western/Germany/Eastern/Karelia/Norway simultaneously. And that my friends is simply tooo much real estate for Germany to defend early in the game with JUST land forces. In fact a Turn 2 move into the Baltic by the Allies can be a devastating tactic to the Axis for MANY reasons including economic loss, breach of supply lines on the Russian offensive, reinforcement of Russia, ongoing threat to Berlin, and a death trap for the remnants of the Luftwaffe if Germany tries to counter-attack the Allied fleets.

    It still cost the UK 2 ftrs and you spent nothing.

    And there is no threat the Allies can mount that early without sacrificing Afr.
    Germany should not be worried about defending Kar, Nor, and even WE can become questionable mid to late game pending your push on Russia.

    UK cannot crack EE or WE if Germany buys land units in the early rds.  It is an empty threat.

    Assume Russia attacks Wrus and Ukr,
    My typical G1 European summary with a 12 inf, 1 rt will be:

    WE: 3 inf, 1 rt, 2 arm, 4 ftrs, aa
    EE:  7-8 inf, rest of the armor
    Ukr: 1-2 units
    Ger:  10 inf
    SE:  2 inf, 1 rt
    Kar: 1 inf

    With a 12 inf, 1 rt buy, G2 would look like this:

    WE: 5-6 inf, 5 ftrs, 1 bom, aa
    EE:  12+ inf, 6+ arm
    Ger:  10+ inf, 1-2 rt (pending afr situation)
    Ukr: continue to trade
    SE: 2 inf, 1 rt

    Etc…

    If the Allies want to try an early 1-2, by all means go ahead.  I think you’ll find Germany can see it coming and defend accordingly.

    Also, we tend to get a bit sloppy with OOL when it comes to PBEM, but techinally if Germany leaves the Baltic as is, they get to see what UK buys prior to its attack on your fleet.  So it could open up the opportunity to submerge your subs and force the UK to place their new ships out of range of the baltic if they went with a just trn buy to try an early landing.

    That still means no potential landing until UK3 with no added investment by Ger.

    @ncscswitch:

    It simply is NOT a good idea to let the Allies set up a two-stage TRN network with the US going ECan to SZ2 offloading in UK, and the US and UK then using SZ5 units that are well defended to send TRN troops to any of 5 territories in Europe startign in Turn 2. And without a reinforcement of SZ5, and Germany keeping control of it into Turn 4+, that WILL happen.

    You can’t do this without delaying a landing in Afr.  I’ll gladly take the Eastern half of Afr and the ME.  And the chance to sneak my BB and trn into the Indian ocean with a chance to claim Mad, Ind, and possibly Aus, NZ, HI.

    Also don’t underestimate a German air + inf buy on G1, it can accomplish the same thing and gives you a lot more flexibility.

    The only territories that matter are WE, Ger, and EE and they are uncrackable for the first 4 turns.  Then WE becoms expendable as does EE since you can still get to Ukr via Balk.  There is nothing wrong with deadzoning EE, esp if you think you can get the Allies to walk into a trap.

    @ncscswitch:

    In the early game, SZ5 is AT LEAST as critical to Germany as Ukraine.

    We obviously disagree.   🙂
    I don’t think Ukr is that import either, not if you can’t hold it.  Which realistically shouldn’t be really possible before rd 4 if the Russia player knows what he is doing.

    Obvioulsy you want to be able to trade Ukr but it isn’t crucial until you can hold it or until Japan is strong in Sin, which again shouldn’t be until around round 3-4.

    I think Germany should be conservative in Europe in rds 1-3 and give time for Japan to build up.  It does you no good to get to Cauc if Japan is still struggling in Chi or vice versa.  Timing is everything.

    @Feds10:

    couldn’t have said it better myself ncscswitch. I think all of the seazones around Europe are important (areas around W EU, Germ, Norway, EEurope are by far the most however). if allies get control of this area….then it’s a race agaisnt the clock. so long as germany has some form of control, the game is undecided. once germany is out of the naval war…they’re fighting for their lives…rather then having the pressure solely on russia.

    See, but this is kind of what I’m getting at, there are lots of seazones around Europe and each has a work-around.  I don’t really see one as more important then the other.  Certainly if eaither side controls all of the North Atlantic that side is in good sape, but one Sea Zone does not grant this advantage.

    @Feds10:

    this game is really about Germany and Japan…there isn’t a KBF or a KAF, there is a KRF…but thats germany’s main goal anyways lol

    I’d go with German and Russia.  90% of the time the game is decided by the fall of Berlin or Moscow.  Thus that should be the focus of most games.  You can have all the ships you want as long as I have Berlin and Moscow.

    @Feds10:

    control of the sea is almost as important as control of the land…sometimes more… Japan needs naval superiority to keep growing in IPC’s…plus they need to hold their islands…Germany just needs to hold their navy as long as possible…the allies need the navy to get troops into Europe…and America needs is in the Pacific to try and stop the japs…

    I disagree.   🙂
    You need troops to take capitals.  Ships are only good for getting troops from A to B, if you are not building ships for that purpose then you are wasting IPCs.
    Germany can do quite well without a navy.

    @Feds10:

    but id still say that sz 5,6,7 are the most important. cuz once the allies are in…it’s over

    Not if Afr is grey and yellow and Germany owns Wrus while Japan is in Kaz.   😄



  • lol DM, god points… when i sed that the sea is almsot as important as land…i meant it for the allies, reason for this is b/c 2 of them arent even in Europe…so if germany has some defense of their coastal waters…then they’re in decent shape…it leaves germany vs Russia.

    i also agree that Germany vs Russia is the main battle…those are the 2 cities that go either for the allies or for the axis. theres an outside chance of losing London…even farther is japan…and losing washington? highly unlikly

    i agree w/ the fact that no one seazone is important than others. when it comes down to it…i’ll say the sz’s around Europe, b/c Berlin is in Europe.

    Feds 10


  • Moderator

    Yeah, clearly the Allies need naval superiority (lots o trans) at some point if they wish to win.

    Yeah, I was coming at from more of the German side, if you have a legit shot at doing some damage in the Atlantic, then great, but make sure you can hold Russia at bay.



  • If forced to make a choice it would be SZ5 and SZ34. Both of them provide access to multiple territories and present many options to the power that occupies it.


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