What is biding and is it neccasary.


  • also the RR rule. does it leave Russia vulnerable


  • Biding is what you do with your time while you wait on your opponent to make a move. And yes it is necessary.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    in Classic Axis and Allies, bidding is most assuredly needed.  The only difference being how much you need to bid for Germany to have a chance at all to surivive against skilled allied players and that’s based more on if there is a Restricted Russia or not.

  • Moderator

    @murphybilly82:

    also the RR rule. does it leave Russia vulnerable

    Yes, bidding is necessary.  Generally at higher level of play it has become understood that the Allies start out with a significant advantage.  Bidding trys to even it out a bit in providing extra units or cash to the Axis.

    If you are new to it, start out low and work your way up.

    As Jen pointed out, just playing RR doesn’t help the Axis enough.

    For RR games I think bids in the range of 9-12 (give or take a few) tend to make things pretty fair, and for
    No-RR, bids are usually 18 plus and it seems like 20-23 are pretty common.


  • I have to concur on the bid levels.  I tried pushing the bid all the way down to 8 for the Axis… and was royally OBLITERATED.

    Also, I am now in the camp of a Power Africa bid, where most of the forces go to Africa as part of the bid.  Makes for a good game, and removes some of the dice element from it that a Power Europe bid creates without having to resort to “low luck” battles.


  • @murphybilly82:

    also the RR rule. does it leave Russia vulnerable

    in conventional A&A, Bidding is necessary - unless you are very experienced and playing someone fairly new. 
    With regards to RR - i do not believe it leaves Russia vulnerable - if anything, it keeps Russia from making itself vulnerable.  You get a chance to stock up your forces and force Germany to look east.


  • In an RR game both Russia and Germany have a chance to bolster their defenses.  It benefits Germany most, because they get the advantage of the first strike instead of Russia.

  • 2007 AAR League

    @MADDOGG:

    Biding is what you do with your time while you wait on your opponent to make a move. And yes it is necessary.

    LMFAO at MADDOG :lol: :lol: :lol:


  • Yes, Maddogg wins.

  • Moderator

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Actually, I’m thinking that a nice 21 IPC bid for 7 infantry in Manchuria and then walk to Moscow unhindered. 😛

    (I’m of the camp that anything over 18 IPC is extremely too high, Russia doesn’t stand a chance.)  But that’s just me.


  • You have not played Darth a game of Classic yet as the Axis have you Jen?  😛

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Nope.  Can’t say as I have.  Though, I am currently undefeated with a 21 IPC bid in Ukraine.  (You don’t even want to SEE me with a 23 IPC bid in Ukraine!)

    As I told 4thmac in our game, it’s all but nigh impossible to keep Moscow from falling in a game where Germany has 10 infantry, 1 fighter and 2 armor on Ukriane to start the game.  You just cream the Karelians, and in our game that included missing every random die in the LL scenario.  Imagine how bad that would be in ADS with decent dice.  Of course, he opened by taking E. Europe, which slowed me down a round, but he tendered resignation on USA 2 with Russia’s entire back door undefended, all but some infantry and a fighter destroyed and a British Fleet threatened. (of course, he failed to sink the Baltic fleet and I lucked in the Med with a transport surviving against his submarine, but that would have been but a nuissance.)

    Is it possible to win that game?  Yea.  Is it about the hardest game you’ll ever have to realistically survive as the allies?  OH HELLZ yea!


  • When you beat Darth, then I will give weight to your Classic strats.

    In the mean time… see my first post to these boards 😛

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    BTW, that was Avin, not 4thmac.  Got em mixed up.

    I’m sure Darth will be a slightly less push over with a 21 bid to Ukraine for me. 🙂  I fail to see how anyone can win against +7 infantry in Ukraine for Germany without good dice rolls for the defenders.  Best strat I’ve seen for that is to pull back to Russia, pump fighters in from England and hope to high heaven that you can get enough troops through with America to bleed forces off Germany before she’s comfortable in marching into Red Square.


  • Jennifer, the things you stated above had nothing to do why I surrendered. The reason I surrendered was because with one transport you killed two fighters, at least one of which was needed to defend my navy. There is no coming back from losing 60+ IPCs in a single battle (24 IPCs for the two fighters, plus 42 IPCs for the 3 transports and AC which was easy pickings on your next turn) without anything but maybe a fighter of yours to show for it. It’s as though I gave you a bid of 80 IPCs, not 21.


  • I like the idea of limiting the bid to 4 units in europe. That would limit an enormous initiative advantage. With that prerequisite in place would you still feel that a 21 bid is too high Jennifer??

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Nope.  In that case I wouldn’t have a problem with 21 bid.  Actually, I wouldn’t have a problem with it if it was a 50/50 placement/saved money either.

    21 IPC bid with max 4 units in any theater of operations would be:

    4 Germany Infantry in E. Europe
    3 Japanese Infantry in FIC


  • I disagree with you Jennifer. I actually think Manchuria is way more important than FIC… I would at least bid 2 units there…

    But my glasses are coloured because I am not a fan of a PE bid… I find a Paf bid way more fun to play.

    But if you want to place your bids in Eur and Asia I will place them like this:
    4 inf EEU
    2 inf Manch
    and 3 ipc’s to ger. (Money to violate Mon neutrality on turn 1 wich gives the Japanese a huge advantage, because you force the russians to retreat earlier than they would have liked leaving Aisa open for the Japs)

  • Moderator

    I agree, I perfer the African Bid.  Someting like:

    2 inf Man
    4 inf Lib
    1 inf EE

    With 23, I’d throw the arm to Afr, and sometimes I won’t bother with the Inf to EE.

    I think this give the Axis more options to win and not a crap shoot or as Agent would say a “chucker’s” shot at Kar with a 7 inf bid to Ukr.  😄

    And as a personal preference I’ll usually play under the condition of No PE.  I don’t find find those games particularly challanging or fun for either side.  Just like I tend to play No Tech.  I think the Max limit of 4 units to Europe seems to be what I’ve played with recently, but usually no more than 1-2 inf were ever placed in Europe.

    And I think a 7 inf PA is even weaker then the 7 inf PE play.  Infact, you could probably get away with giving Japan 24 if it all went to a PA bid.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I could see a rational for an extra couple units in Manch.  Stops Russia from attacking it…though, really, to be honest, unless you’re in LL the chances of Russia actually winning are remarkably small - in practice.


  • I like the idea of limiting the bid to 4 units in europe. That would limit an enormous initiative advantage.

    See I don’t like these kinds of rules because I think they presuppose that units in Europe are stronger therefore you must limit this effect.  If you start with such an assumption you are saying an all europe bid is superior(which it is) and therefore why would you want to bid elsewhere.  In that case if we assume this to be true even with a 4 limit rule I would still bid for 8infantry but split them with 4 in Ukraine and 4 in Libya which might be better anyway.  The Russians cannot attack and take Ukraine because it leaves their armor exposed to counter attack.  They cannot attack and retreat because they would only gain an advantage of perhaps 1-2 units plus there is the risk of bad dice which with 9 @ 2 + 1 @ 4 is very high.  11 units attacking 10 units is pretty much a crap shoot as far as the dice are concerned and such a battle would most certainly make or break Russia, but for the fact that even with great luck the Germans are still quite strong in Africa.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    4 Infantry in Ukraine:

    I hit with 3 Armor, 8 Infantry and retreat to Karelia after one or two rounds of battle.  I have left nothing exposed and I have removed your bid.

    7 Infantry in Ukraine:

    Russia is screwed.  You cannot strafe because you’ll take much more damage then you can afford.  You cannot defend Karelia.  Best you can do is expose your combat units to slaughter by slowing the Germans down 1 round with a E. Europe invasion.  Of course, Germany still has a strong force in Karelia (Strong as in 3 armor +1-4 infantry; more then enough to stop a counter invasion by England and start building there) and htey have a massed stack in E. Europe ready to move in on G2.


  • With an overwhelming german force in UKR a russian withdrawal into russia could work. Then the allies could land UK/US forces in FIN for a turn 2-3 strafe/assault on the German Karelia forces.

    Only problem is Germany picks up easy dollars for Kar and caucasus and can even blitz armour down to PER/SYR


  • Consider the following.

    R1 Evac all forces to Moscow 4 INF KAR +5 INF CAU +3 INF RUS
    R1 Build 8 INF
    R2 Build 8 INF + 2 more from the East = 30 INF + 3 ARM + 2 FTR + 2 UK FTR in moscow

    Even if the Germans throw everything at it on G2 that’s only about 20 inf 10 arm + planes (assuming about 7-8 extra INF bid in UKR). The Russians should be able to hold. If the Germans do throw everything at it then the rest of europe should be ripe for the picking by UK /US

    Then it’s up to the allies to come in via FIN or through Africa to stop the Germans getting too many free points

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