What is biding and is it neccasary.


  • Im stıll goıng to say though that a bıd of 7 to 8 unıts ın Ukraıne or Europe ıs not the best because so much more can be done wıth 4 ın Ukraıne and 4 ın Lıbya or 5 ın ukraıne and 3 ın Lıbya.  Wıth eıther of these the Russıans cannot really afford to attack Ukraıne or at least take ıt meanıng Germany should be able to use all fıghters and have enough fırepower to achıeve all objectıves on turn 1.  Also because Ukraıne ıs so buılt up the Russıans wıll have to brıng everythıng ıngnorıng the baltıc fleet whıch ıs another advantage to Germany.  Even wıth a strafe Russıa should lose.  Further should Russıa brıng everythıng ınto the Ukraıne they are lıkely to have to pull off leavıng a tank or two and ıf they go after the baltıc as well as the Ukraıne they wıll lıkely lose more troops than they kıll.  And thıs doesnt even begın to account for the extremely hıgh lıkelyhood of very bad dıce ıe Germany gettıng 5-6 defense hıts on round 1.  Yes there ıs a lıkelyhood of that hıttıng the Germans but ıt ıs less than that facıng Russıa.  Also unlıke a euro only bıd you dont have all your eggs ın one basket 4ınfantry ın Lıbya ıs very capable of gettıng the job done as are 3ınfantry.  In the end the only real choıce for the Russıans ıs to make no attacks on R1 but for the baltıc and maybe a strafe on fınland to soften ıt up for turn 2.


  • Agreed. With 4 or more inf in UKR the Germans are in the stronger position. The question is what is the best strategy for the Russians.

    Option 1. Take/strafe UKR with Everything in CAU and KAR. This could slow the Germans down for a turn but the downside is the potential loss of all Russian armour.

    Option 2. Hold KAR with everything. This leaves CAU open as a walk in and the Russians will probably lose everything to a concentrated German Attack on round 1.

    Option 3. Retreat to Moscow. Gather the Russian forces for a turn 2 or 3 counterattack. The downside is that it leaves 6 easy IPC gains for Germany on turn 1 (KAR and CAU)


  • You missed the option attack and take or strafe EEU.


  • Disagreed

    Russia strafes ukr with 8 inf,3 arm,2 figs which is a slightly superior force than what ukr has (7 inf,2 arm,1 fig) and gets more superior after the first round of fire because the germans are losing (2’s) and the russians (1’s). Ukr winds up with 1 or 2 arm & a fig. Russia retreats back to karelia with a couple inf,3 arm,2 figs. Russia reinforces that with 11 inf (the 12th going to cauc), looks ger squarely in the eye & says “bring it on”.

    If ger retaliates by sending everything to kar (ignoring the atl fleet) and loses NO planes to aa fire, then it will enjoy only a slight edge. Lose 1 plane to aa fire and it’s even steven.

    Bottam line is, put 4 inf of your bid in ukr against me & I will shove them 4 inf up your behind!!  and this assumes that that is your entire bid in europe. if you have another 3 of your bid in ee,then that might change things.


  • And another thing squad….doing that strafe doesn’t mean ignoring the baltic fleet! Do you see those 2 little russian boats parked off the coast of karelia…


  • Well I don’t really mind that because it is risky to go ships on ships and because it means you must send both of them i.e. you don’t end up with fodder in the North sea which is a huge plus. If I can get the Russians to start taking those kind of risks on Russia one when they don’t have to then I think my bid has done its work.

    You missed the option attack and take or strafe EEU.

    Yes but while this is probably better than the risk of nailing Ukraine it is not better because as Russia you are still giving up 3inf and 2arm for just 3inf arm ftr in EEuro.  The only real gain here is that you can attack the baltic sea but you are very likely to see the Germans push their guys from Ukr to Cauc as well as play a strong opening in Egypt.  Essentially, you are giving up all the ground you normally would to a power europe and power africa opening.

    Russia strafes ukr with 8 inf,3 arm,2 figs which is a slightly superior force than what ukr has (7 inf,2 arm,1 fig) and gets more superior after the first round of fire because the germans are losing (2’s) and the russians (1’s). Ukr winds up with 1 or 2 arm & a fig. Russia retreats back to karelia with a couple inf,3 arm,2 figs.

    This is a VERY optimistic apraisal because you assume NOTHING goes wrong.  Even if it does you leave 2 German armor(which is what they want anyway) and you retreat with 2inf plus armor.  so you are trading 6 infantry for 7 big deal!  Plus if you go for the ships on ships in the baltic and the ukraine you are very likely to get stung in at least one place.  If its in the baltic i lose no ships and you retreat with a transport .  While its unlikely I would attack Karelia it is very likely that I would use that transport, either to move troops out of Finland or to move troops from Weuro to eeuro.  At the same time I can take down the Uk fleet without losing any aircraft so even if you take the EEuro option instead I really haven’t been hurt much.  And then there is the 500 pound gorilla in the room of my 4inf bid in Libya which enables me to attack syria as well as egypt while knocking out the entire Uk navy turn 1.  No matter what you do against Germany in EEuro, Ukr etc it won’t matter so long as that force has that kind of options.  The way to prevent the Egypt/syria gambit is to make not attacks on Germany but for the naval ones and force them to have to stretch a little on G1.  However that means you are giving the Germans a huge advantage in terms of guys in Europe against Russia which will hurt in several turns.


  • Someone explain to me how to cut & paste or whatever it takes to get a partial quote from someone on your post. Pretend that I’m a 6 year old & baby me through it.
    In all his rambling nonsense, dethsquad stated " And then there is the 500 lb gorilla in the room of my 4 inf bid in libya"  Trust me folks,that 500 lb gorilla is no more than a 5 lb spider monkey. Ask Cyan, he’ll tell ya.


  • Hit the “quote” button instead of “reply”

    Then from between the two html quote commands (one says quote in brackets, the other is /quote in brackets) delete the text you do NOT want included.

    Then type your comments AFTER the /quote command 🙂


  • @MADDOGG:

    Someone explain to me how to cut & paste or whatever it takes to get a partial quote from someone on your post. Pretend that I’m a 6 year old & baby me through it.
    In all his rambling nonsense, dethsquad stated " And then there is the 500 lb gorilla in the room of my 4 inf bid in libya"  Trust me folks,that 500 lb gorilla is no more than a 5 lb spider monkey. Ask Cyan, he’ll tell ya.

    were still playing it. i got a 27ipc bid and put 4inf(3X4+=12) in manchuria and put 3tanks in libya.
    he bombed my tanks to pieces. he empted india and amphioious assualted egypt my 3 tanks the other was in congo. who the heck gives up india for egypt? it  worked though. he then killed my med fleet next turn in the black sea. africa is obivoulsy suffering i have no units in it, no way of bringing troops there and the us never even had to attack africa,instead it attacked france. my other bid didn’t go too well either the 4 inf got killed in yakut with only 1 hit in 2 rounds. 
    i put 15 extra ipc in africa and the fate of it was decided withen 2 turns.

    the moral of the story: don’t  use an african bid unless you attack egypt via southern europe first turn to acompany the bid. even then i’m still going to call you mad :-).


  • Trust me folks,that 500 lb gorilla is no more than a 5 lb spider monkey.

    More nonsense from you.  Christ!

    the moral of the story: don’t  use an african bid unless you attack egypt via southern europe first turn to acompany the bid. even then i’m still going to call you mad

    I would gladly take a bid of 27 and win as the Axis by placing 5infantry in Ukraine and 4 infantry in Libya.  Yes Russia can attack in Europe and the Libyans will need help in Egypt but the key here is that he cannot do it all.  If Russia attacks Ukraine it makes it easier to deal with the British navy for Germany.  If they don’t attack Ukraine then Germany can afford more troops into Africa.  If Russia attacks FinNor then the Germans might just attack Karelia, and if Russia attacks EEurope that move is irrelevent.  Ignoring Ukraine is the best because the net gain for Russia is usually very small, only 2arm and a ftr, but for Germany that gets this plus 3 units bid into Ukraine this is a huge upswing.

    were still playing it. i got a 27ipc bid and put 4inf(3X4+=12) in manchuria and put 3tanks in libya.

    And this is WHY you are losing.  Putting that much infantry in Asia does no good, and you overdid the armor in Africa so you got little benefit out of your bid.  Like I said with 27 I’m going for 9inf and putting 5 of it in Ukraine, and 4 in Libya, or I would bid for 8infantry and put 5of it in Ukraine and 3of it in EEurope.

    who the heck gives up india for egypt? it  worked though.

    Sounds like a good move.  India is only 3ipcs, East Africa/Syria is 7.  India is too close to Japan to be defended, Egypt is an easy hold for the Allies once taken from Germany.

    the moral of the story: don’t  use an african bid unless you attack egypt via southern europe first turn to acompany the bid. even then i’m still going to call you mad

    Or bid at least 4 infantry in Africa.


  • i wanted do something differnunt and this bid aloud me to attack basically all the asian terroties 1st turn. sinkiang attack went badly and when i attacked the lone inf in fic it the attck still went badly. also if my 4inf that i moved to yaku kill like 2 or 3 inf. i would in russia right now. i’m just used to an ic going in india.  even though japan almost awlys can take the ic befor you can use it. i am losing because i  am not handling germany too well. if you can win with out a bid a bid bid doesn’t reck your game. you say 4in in ukraine i say 4 if in manchuria.  are you going to attack an additonal 4 infs in manchuria? so this allowed me to use macuhria instead of recapturing it.

  • Moderator

    The issue with Man vs. Europe is, you can essentially gain Asia without placing (that many) extra units there.

    If you are really concerned about a Russia attack on Man, you are better off with placing only 1-2 inf on Man to protect.  At this point it can be extremely risky for Russia to attack.  Now you can maximize the rest of your bid to Germany so you can get an immediate gain out of it and really make the Allies work for Afr or for Russia into some tough choices.

    4 inf in Man is just a bit of overkill.

    Think of it like this, with 4 inf in Man the earliest they can attack Moscow is J3-J4, that gives the Allies 3-4 turns to counter, or pick off inf here and there (which appearded to happen in your game) as you move toward Novo and Mos BUT 4-5 inf in Afr with a few in europe means, the Germans can immediately take/hold Egy and secure their European boarders, forcing the Allies to do something about Afr or they’ll see Germany use the Afr income to force the Allies out of Kar and the German afr army moves back toward the middle east and you now see a squeeze of Germany moving towards Kar and Per and Japan now hitting Novo.

    @cyan:

    i am losing because i am not handling germany too well.

    This is the key.  Regardless of what you place in Asia, Germany needs to play well.  Japan can afford set backs, Germany cannot.  And IMO, the best way to prevent (slow down) German setbacks is by using about 80% of the bid for Germany.

    I think you’ll find 2 inf in Man to be more effective than 4 in helping out Germany.

    Now, if you are just trying new stuff, then great, nothing wrong with that, as long as you continue to learn why the new stuff may or may not work.


  • 1-2 inf in Man is enough. Then you can decide if you want to put the rest in Europe, or play Pafr. I prefer Pafr because it will be more of a game. A PEU is over in like 4 turns, you either make it to Moscow or you didn’t. With PAfr you have more options to choose from. Look at my current game against the new spacecrew and you will see what I mean. It helps if you have some help from the dice like I did, otherwise you are in a big hole from the beginning. I remember DM and AS(SHP) playing a game where Germany’s first round objectives were given with the normal losses. The Point AS made was that Germany has 5 mandatory risk battles that all have to be won to have a shot at winning the game as the axis so Japan can only grow if Germany effectively holds of the allies therefor the gross of your bid should go to Ger.


  • Bashir, are you rosselvet and his abc soup. can you explian what PEU stands for and Pefr dtands for. thanks


  • @DarthMaximus:

    Now, if you are just trying new stuff, then great, nothing wrong with that, as long as you continue to learn why the new stuff may or may not work.

    i know what i did wrong i should have put 2 tanks and 2 inf  in libya and 1 tank in in algeria and 2 inf in manchuria. :roll: maybe even 3 trn and  in the balltic sea and 1 inf in germany. do you think england could fall 1st turn with this?


  • PEU=Power Europ
    Pafr=Power Africa

    No Eng can’t fall on G1, because if you bid that extra tran in baltic Rus will fly one more fig over to UK and their ass is saved…


  • @DethSkwad:

    I would gladly take a bid of 27 and win as the Axis by placing 5infantry in Ukraine and 4 infantry in Libya.

    maxium bid of 4 units per terrotory 5 units per continent.


  • Care to play squad…or do you just talk?


  • I would gladly take a bid of 27 and win as the Axis by placing 5infantry in Ukraine and 4 infantry in Libya. 
    Well why don’t you take me on? I’ll give your wussy behind a 27 bid and crush your ass!!


  • The above quote was by Dethsquad, formerly known as Agent Smith, ye of all talk and no action.  Soon u die  is also AS!!


  • I don’t have time to play you right now maybe in a month or so but not now.  I don’t even know what an AS is did you mean to call him an A** but leave off the last ‘s’ to avoid being profane?  Soon U Die is another person here that makes comments isn’t he?  You seem to think that because our views are similar this means we are the same person?  By that token how do we know you are not me, and I am using the “maddog” persona as a ruse to buffalo everyone here.  I mean it’s genius play yourself in a game by creating a phony persona which is so outrageous that no one suspects a thing then when you play one lays down and you ‘proove’ how great you are.  Come on that’s a little bit elaborate don’t you think.  Would you please stop insinuating that I am a bunch of other people here, especially because I don’t know who most of them are.


  • Sorry SUD,I now think that I was wrong in associating you with the big fraud that is agent smith/dethsquad!


  • Thought AS was IP-banned…


  • IP’s can change, pretty easilly.

    “Tone” though is hard to hide over long periods of time…


  • Yes but that’s guilt by similarity and I’m rather tired of it.  I feel as if I am being accused of being a witch in Salem…if I float I am guilty and if I sink I’m dead.  Gee great choice.  But is there a way to prove I am not these people?  Oh by the way I really am Maddogg and NCSSwitch is that a problem here?

Suggested Topics

I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

29
Online

15.6k
Users

37.0k
Topics

1.6m
Posts