JAPAN _ trannies vs. IC


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I really have to wonder what the point is of landing troops in Alaska.  You can’t possibly hold the land.



  • It can be a nice distraction to the US Shuck… especially if that shuck is poorly executed 😄

    It is especially effective when you take both Alaska and WCan on the same turn…  US HAS to counter…


  • Moderator

    Depending on how commited Japan is, I think you can threaten the the US pretty good.

    Example  (Assume US goes with an Atlantic Focus).

    As Japan in rds 1-2, buy trns and inf (kind of a normal play).  You can even get away with a rd 1 IC (on Man).
    Set your Japan to Asia Shuck-Schuck via sz 60 to Bury.
    Once the US BB hits the Eus sz, then as Japan you are really safe.

    Say J3 you unload 8 inf to bury (bought 8 and place on Japan).
    Now on J4 you dump 8 inf to Wcan (from Japan) and move the 8 inf from Bury to Sfe.

    With wise purchasing you can keep dumping 6-8 units into Canada and still place 3-5 in Aisa (at this point for defense only) to hold your lines at Sin and Yak.

    Obviously you won’t be making a run at Moscow, but this can be handy if you deem it impossible to get to Moscow and take anyway.

    The problem for the US is, if they didn’t start their inf train from Wus, Japan can squeeze in at Cus or Ecan (or both) and force the US to take them back.

    IMO, you play J1-3 fairly conventionally, judge the status at that time and then decide whether you can make a play or not.

    As long as you are Shucking from Sz 60 to Bury on J2-3, and placing 4-8 units on Japan, I think the opportunity is there to cause some trouble if the US get sloppy early on.

    Edit:

    Switch snuck in a post.  But I agree.



  • :mrgreen:

    Good Things


  • 2007 AAR League

    The reason I won’t buy an IC on J1 is because the situation is too fluid.  Russia normally will have stacked 6inf in Bury plus 2inf & possibly a tank in Sink.  Japan has to attack China, Pearl, and destroy the remnants of the UK IO fleet.  I find it risky to commit to an IC before I know the outcome of those battles, especially China which for me always ends up being a bloodbath.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    But you cannot possibly hold Alaska without utilization of your entire Air Force added to a building of an IC and even then, it’s highly doubtful you can resupply it fast enough to seriously distract America.  Meanwhile, Russia’s giggling herself silly as she grabs Asia and pummels Germany.



  • @Jennifer:

    But you cannot possibly hold Alaska without utilization of your entire Air Force added to a building of an IC and even then, it’s highly doubtful you can resupply it fast enough to seriously distract America.  Meanwhile, Russia’s giggling herself silly as she grabs Asia and pummels Germany.

    Holding Alaska/West Canada isn’t the point of hitting Alaska/West Canada at all.  It’s a simple question of logistics.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Sounds like a waste of resources that could be headed for Moscow.  Same reason I don’t usually hit Australia, Hawaii (land, not SZ), New Zealand or Madagascar.



  • OK, don’t hit Alaska/W. Canada then.



  • I believe the game is over when Japan loses its fleet. It is cut off from the mainland, and soon after it is surrounded.  It cannot rebuild ships and loses its islands and income. Its remaining land units are mopped up. I am an advocate for building as many ships as possible for the chewer. It strengthens the depth of the fleet, and allows the fleet to split into smaller task forces when “Opportunity presents itself” as a previous poster mentioned.

    You could argue the fact of having 2 IC’s on Asia’s mainland, which should produce enough units to steamroll the allies (accompanied by your initial fleets’ amphibious landings which soon lose their convenience logistically). Adding to this dilemma for the Allies is the fact they need a couple turns to develop and get into the war. So the two IC’s would have to come early.

    Flawing this 2 IC Japanese assult are two critical things:

    1- These IC’s become targets. By J3 you have them, and by US 3 they should be knocking on the door.

    2- All of Japan’s income is spent on units for the mainland. That means extreme minimal purchases for the Japanese Navy, and a weak fleet is a dead fleet for the Japanese. They need to add to the fleet to keep pace with two opposing powers who continue to jockey for the Navy title. So when that big fleet engagement finally happens (and it can sometimes take a while), if Japan does not prevail, then it loses the war.

    I do like the Manchuria IC. It seems very safe, and if the homeland is ever threatened, flop the navy right in there to protect both IC’s.



  • If the US is building fleet heavy, you never build the second IC, at least not until you kill or neutralize the US fleet.

    As for the logistics of using TRNs from Japan to support Asia…
    INF Wall.  Massive depth of forces and a continuous wave of forces with an ever growing mass at the front that is virtually immune to counter-attack.  Takes a few rounds to set up, but once established, it is a devastating force set for the Allies to deal with, especialy if they have failled to lock Germany down before it reaches maturity around J5…


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Problem with the Manch IC is you can very soon have 10 Russian Infantry knocking on your door with support from an American and British IC in Sink/India



  • We’ve been down this road.  While Manch is threatened, the German’s are claiming the Stolychnya factory…


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I don’t think so.

    10 Infantry from Russia is Net 0 Loose to the Russians.  Meanwhile, the Brits and Americans can pump in 5 units a round, that’s significant enough.  Meanwhile, (especially if you do the SBR route to reduce Germany to eating sand) you can keep them stifled long enough to neutrallize Japan (aka reduce them to their home island only, no fleet) and then turn all your guns on Berlin.

    Of course, the SBR strat never works for me, only against me.  AA Guns for my defense are nothing but pretty decrative pieces on the board I have to strive to keep out of hte hands of my enemies, while when I attack they are akin to walking naked through a briar patch!



  • To build those BOMs, you are not buying fleet as US that fast.

    And if you have a UK IC in India, and are buying BOMs as UK, then yuo are buying NOTHING for Europe.  Add in losses in Africa…

    There are a few dynamics you are missing Jen.  You build the UK IC in India, AND have the US do one in Sinkiang, as well as build lfeet to sink the Japan fleet, and you have some VERY critical problems.

    Africa:  Germany is +2 on G1, +5 or 6 more on G2, and plus ALL of it on G3.  That is UK down 10, assuming they keep Madagascar.

    UK Fleet:  With a heavy investment by UK in India, their fleet is going to build VERY slowly.  So initially they will have to stay out of range of the Kreigsmarine and Luftwaffe.  That means no Norway income, and no threat to Western or anywhere else… FULL POWER EAST as Germany.  If you DO get close… Joint strike, and Royal Navy goes GLUB!  Now it is UK that is stranded on an island without their teritories, not Japan.

    Caucuses:  As Germany, I will have it FOR KEEPS on G3 or G4 with no Allied threat from the Atlantic.  And once I have Caucuses, that India instalation looks pretty weak, or Moscow does… one or the other.  And I can prevent you from tading forces back and forth, especially with a push out of T-J into Persia backed up from Caucues.  Add Kazakh and Germany thretens everythign the Allies have built in Asia.

    Japan AF:  I have 6 FIGs to start, 2 BB’s, and 2 AC’s.  I can add another laoded AC for half my starting income, then SUBs and TRNs as fodder in following rounds, while still using the Manch IC and TRNs to float INF to Asia making your job pretty difficult… Japan INF backed up by my AF, which gets to fly back to the AC’s to defend my fleet.  And my BB shots for amphibs.  Once you come into Japan’s territories, you get teh full might of the Imperial forces leveled at you… the same ones that allowed Japan to take those territories before teh “start time” of the game.

    So Japan harasses the hell out of the UK and US forces, slowly giving ground in the Pacific.  By about turn 5, things are pretty bleak for Japan.  Of course, for those 5 turns, Germany has gone to an income of about $60 and is outbuilding Russia 3 to 1, with an initial force superiority thrown in for good measure, and no Russian reinforcements coming from the East…  Moscow is toast, and now Germany at $70 is after India and Sinkiang IC’s, AND sending a reinforced Med Fleet into the Indian Ocean, as well as doing a TRN build up in the North Atlantic and hammering at London.

    GAME OVER.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    We shall see, won’t we?

    Cause I’ve yet to see an axis player beat me when I move to ostrasize Japan first.  Germany’s easy enough to stall.  Really.  Meanwhile, Japan’s over whelmed.  Odds are you’re going to loose soemthing at Pearl, or you forgo it.  You do that, I’m up to 5 fighters, 3 carriers and a battleship on US 2.  You don’t I sink at least half your fleet on my counter and I still have two loaded carriers.

    England does an IC in India.  Or takes Borneo/New Guinea to harass Japan, depriving them greatly.

    Really, with 3 allies bearing down on them with starting equipment plus some investments with America towards fleet, Japan doesn’t stand a chance.  Not if you only give them 1 or 2 IPCs on their bid anyway.

    What’s Germany up to?  Karelia, Belorussia, Ukraine, Most of Africa by the time Jap’s out of the game.  Then it’s 3 on 1 with no help from Japan.



  • Well, we ahve an upcoming game, so I guess we can put this to rest in the near future 🙂


  • 2007 AAR League

    @ncscswitch:

    Well, we ahve an upcoming game, so I guess we can put this to rest in the near future 🙂

    I declare the front row seat for this game! Two big kahunas who can talk the talk AND walk the walk.  And soon, apparently, one’s laurels and convictions will be put to the test! Viva la A&A!!!



  • Well, I have not zeen Ezto on the board lately, and I am looking at putting A&A.org members to teh front of the queue over other gamers… so unless Ezto makes an appearnce later this month, Jen will be up right after I finish the Tournament Consolation match.

    Novemeber Battle Royale… elections and Jen and I going at it in a no-holds barred game 😄


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Of course there are holds barred! 😛  You don’t want NAs or Tech. hehe.  Yea, I’m just nit-picking, deal. hehe.



  • @General_D.Fox:

    @ncscswitch:

    Well, we ahve an upcoming game, so I guess we can put this to rest in the near future 🙂

    I declare the front row seat for this game! Two big kahunas who can talk the talk AND walk the walk.  And soon, apparently, one’s laurels and convictions will be put to the test! Viva la A&A!!!

    I don’t think the game will prove or disprove a KJF effective.  Four reasons.

    1.  Luck will play a factor, and a bit of luck in a naval battle type game can be very decisive.

    2.  If the KJF succeeds or fails, there is no way to measure the relative merits of KJF to KGF.  (If the KJF fails, you could say the KGF would have failed as well; if the KJF succeeds, you could say the KGF would have succeeded as well).

    3.  I think both players will depart from the optimal line, so the optimal line of play will not be explored.  This will happen from chance if not from suboptimal builds, combat choices, and movement.

    4.  An opening at Germany can see the game switch to KGF before the crucial UK turn, or even before the deciding US turn.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Not to mention I have seen the transport in SZ 59 successfully sink a destroyer and an aircraft carrier attacking it.



  • I think we all ahve seen that by now 🙂  Luck of the dice… it WILL happen from time to time, just like 2 INF killign an INF and 3 FIGs, and still ahving an INF left over after the battle…


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Bah, I’ve seen 1 inf destroy 9 inf and a tank.  (Guy kept saying “he’ll eventually die!”)


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