The Tanks of WWII



  • The Sherman was a piece of crap. It took 17 shots at 500 yards to kills a Panther, while one Panther could kill a Sherman 2000 yards away with one shot. We only one because we could make so many of them.


  • Moderator

    The difference is that you are referring to a standard M4A3 with 75 mm… The firefly were equipped with a 17 lb. gun capable of engaging Panters and even Tigers… And also remember we produced way more Shermans then they produced Panthers, and that rear and side armor is a lot weaker then frontal…

    GG


  • 2007 AAR League

    yes, we had sherman chassies with 76 high-velocity guns, 105 mm guns, flame throwers.  Heck the sherman was a step up from the tanks we used first in North africa, those things worked ok but would have gotten smacked around worse in europe.

    Our wolverine tank destroyers could knock out any tank the germans had.

    Sadly, in an ambush of one tiger or panther, 4 of our shermans would have to try to get around the other tank.  they only expected one to make it around for the hind shot, we had to use numbers.  The shermans were dubbed as a type of canadian match. “always lights on the first try”.

    Shermans were still better than engish or french tanks in the war.  Tons better than those little jap ones.  Tankettes.



  • The Shermans had their pros, such as mobility.  But the Allies also had more air cover, with more infantry and arty supporting.  So things weren’t all bad.  I love playing Red Orchestra to get an accurate feel of how the tankers experienced warfare, it’s interesting to try and take a Panther or Tiger down with a KV-1 or T-60.



  • They were ten  feet high and were an easy target to hit. However, the Allies really didn’t need to rely on their tanks as much.

    The Wolverine couldn’t destroy Tigers or Panthers, just Panzers.

    Anyways, a Sherman was a Japanese G4M, like Balungloaf said (the G4M was the Japanse bomber that was used as the piece in Axis and Allie, and it was a weak airplane.) One shot and it is gone.



  • Balungaloaf,

    I think the quote you were looking for was, “Ronson, lights first time, every time.” 😉



  • German tanks where supperior to all the western allied tanks, Russian tanks where a bit different they where actualy better then most german tanks due to superior armor design.’

    But western allies had air superiority and no mather how strong your tank is fighters and bombers can take it out anyway. And if you get 4 times as many you will in the end overcome the enemy. Also remember that unlike in games real life tanks needs fuel just cutting the supply lines is enough to take out a whole army of tanks.



  • @Nukchebi0:

    We only one because we could make so many of them.

    Like I say to people in Counter-Strike Source……“What you lack in quality, make it up with quantity!!!”  :lol:


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    First off this is a great thread!!

    “What you lack in quality, make it up with quantity!!!”

    Stalin once said “quantity has a quality of its own”

    Id have to say that Germany overall had by far the best tanks followed by the Soviet Union and US. From the period of Aug 1941- till about late 1942 when the Tiger tank made its appearance. However, the numerical advantage was offset by poor mechanical disposition and poor application and tactics on the battlefield. The Germans with an equal force could easily win by a better employment of tanks. Logistics played a part as well and the Soviets were prone to major problems in sustaining a breakthrough after it was achieved. The Germans would nearly allways be able to get out of the noose.

    The American Sherman was credible but was no match for even a panther mark IV let alone a tiger I.

    Micheal Wittmann demonstrated what exactly a Tiger could so against Allied tanks when Monty tried to break into Caen. Wittmann’s tank alone stopped the entire British division and knocked out something like 22 tanks and 14 support vehicles.



  • Yea those German tanks were amazing.  You needed to send like four Shermans against to to hit it from the side or rear and even then, you were probaly going to lose one Sherman.  I think the best tanks were Russian.  Russian tanks had all the qualitys that you would want in a tank.  They were very well armored, very fast, had decent guns, and of course before the Germans made the Panther, the Russians had already started to use sloped armor to deflect shells.


  • 2007 AAR League

    the joseph stalin series of heavy tanks for the USSR, epecially Stalin III’s.  Could slug it out evenly or i think with an advantage over any heavy tank the germans had.



  • @Imperious:

    Micheal Wittmann demonstrated what exactly a Tiger could so against Allied tanks when Monty tried to break into Caen. Wittmann’s tank alone stopped the entire British division and knocked out something like 22 tanks and 14 support vehicles.

    At the cost of his own life, nonetheless…

    @balungaloaf:

    the joseph stalin series of heavy tanks for the USSR, epecially Stalin III’s.  Could slug it out evenly or i think with an advantage over any heavy tank the germans had.

    The problem with the IS-2 was that it wasn’t as much of a threat to infantry as it was to tanks, so it was more like a Jagdpanther (or whatever it was called) than a Tiger.



  • @Jermofoot:

    @Imperious:

    Micheal Wittmann demonstrated what exactly a Tiger could so against Allied tanks when Monty tried to break into Caen. Wittmann’s tank alone stopped the entire British division and knocked out something like 22 tanks and 14 support vehicles.

    At the cost of his own life, nonetheless…

    @balungaloaf:

    the joseph stalin series of heavy tanks for the USSR, epecially Stalin III’s.  Could slug it out evenly or i think with an advantage over any heavy tank the germans had.

    The problem with the IS-2 was that it wasn’t as much of a threat to infantry as it was to tanks, so it was more like a Jagdpanther (or whatever it was called) than a Tiger.

    I think that a 36:1 KDR is more than acceptable, myself.

    Edit: The Panther could get a T-34 through the front armor from 2000m, whil the T-34 needed 500m.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    At the cost of his own life, nonetheless…

    no he died in another battle latter in the same campaign different battle.

    joseph stalin series of heavy tanks for the USSR, epecially Stalin III’s

    those things came out allmost near the end of the war. Id still take a King Tiger to that thing. Ill find some references and post the comparison.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    JS-3:
    Crew 4
    Length 9.90 m
    Width 3.09 m
    Height 2.73 m
    Weight 46 tonnes
    Armour and armament
    Armour 30 to 160 mm
    Main armament D25-T 122 mm gun
    Secondary armament 3×DT, 1×DShK machine guns
    Mobility
    Power plant 12-cyl. diesel model V-2
    600 hp (450 kW)
    Suspension torsion bar
    Road speed 37 km/h
    Power/weight 13 hp/tonne
    Range 240 km

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin_tank

    King Tiger:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_tiger

    Weight 69.8 tonnes
    Length 7.62 m, 10.286 m gun forward
    Width 3.755 m
    Height 3.09 m
    Crew 5
    Armour 180 mm frontal armor
    80 mm side armor
    Primary
    armament 88 mm KwK 43 L/71
    Secondary
    armament 2×7.92 mm MG
    Engine V-12 Maybach HL 230 P30
    700 hp (515 kW)
    Power/weight 10 hp/tonne
    Suspension torsion-bar
    Operational
    range 170 km
    Speed 41.5 km/h

    further reading also confirms what i thought was correct: that they were not used in Europe as they were introduced too late in this campaign.



  • Soviet air power won WWII for them. They destroyed more tanks with Il-2’s and Il-10’s than with tanks.


  • Moderator

    I have no proof to prove or disprove that claim, but I think that in actuality Snow was the main cause of tank deaths on the Eastern Front…

    GG



  • @Guerrilla:

    I have no proof to prove or disprove that claim, but I think that in actuality Snow was the main cause of tank deaths on the Eastern Front…

    GG

    Snow wasnt the main, but was one of the top causes.  Some tank engines wouldnt even start in such cold weather and if they did, they had a hard time moving.



  • I was talking about in the later battles, such as those when Russia was regaining lost territory.



  • How about this concept tank:

    http://www.kensingtonbooks.com/finditem.cfm?itemid=9384

    I don’t know if I first saw this here, if I did…sorry for reposting.


  • 2007 AAR League

    i think it would have gotten taken out by artillery, or planes.

    It would be abosutley scary on a battlefield though, soldiers would just run away.  how would you take that thing out.

    It would take a ton of steel to make one of those.

    IF the armor was thick enough to withstand anything, only napalm or flame would do the trick. nasty.



  • @balungaloaf:

    i think it would have gotten taken out by artillery, or planes.

    It would be abosutley scary on a battlefield though, soldiers would just run away.  how would you take that thing out.

    It would take a ton of steel to make one of those.

    IF the armor was thick enough to withstand anything, only napalm or flame would do the trick. nasty.

    I think planes would have been the deterrent of choice.  It did have flak guns, though (and mgs).  Hell…how would this thing be mobile anyway?  It was painful enough to get the Tigers moving…


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    considering the other book on that site and the fact i cant find any colloborating evidence for such a project even with having over 500 books on WW2. I can conclude that its a work of fiction… or at the very best something that was never even drafted in terms of modeling the feasibility of such a tank. Only the Maus seems at least something that was attempted (* they have 2 of these tanks unfinished). I feel that the maus would have been defending Berlin if Hitler lasted a few more months. But as you know in trials the Maus wasnt able to meet the speed requirements as per the specifications… the germans were working on a solution when work was halted for more important considerations.



  • I also have no stuff on that tank and i also poses a nice library of books, and have read a lot library books on the subject.

    But even if it was on the battlefield bombers would not miss a tank that big and we all know what bombers did to battleships that had even more armor and where more mobile 😄

    Scary fact that if hitler had not ordered stopping of most research projects he would have had ICBM’s he was close with the V2 rocket and nukes.
    Germany was for most of the war on par on that research with the US. ICBM + Nukes now there is a scary thought even the US would have capitulated against that might ( just imagine NY getting the same processing as nagasaki )



  • @Imperious:

    considering the other book on that site and the fact i cant find any colloborating evidence for such a project even with having over 500 books on WW2. I can conclude that its a work of fiction… or at the very best something that was never even drafted in terms of modeling the feasibility of such a tank. Only the Maus seems at least something that was attempted (* they have 2 of these tanks unfinished). I feel that the maus would have been defending Berlin if Hitler lasted a few more months. But as you know in trials the Maus wasnt able to meet the speed requirements as per the specifications… the germans were working on a solution when work was halted for more important considerations.

    I never took it as even a possibility for deployment, but I wouldn’t put it past the Germans to dream something like this.  Either way, interesting that someone put that much thought into it. 
    The Maus was another thing I was going to mention, but couldn’t recall it’s actual name.

    Didn’t the Russians have some sort of land rover tank?  Multiple turrets, quite large?  I remember seeing something a long time ago…


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