TGC (Germany) vs. Karl7 (Allies) Original Europe


  • 1d6: 3


  • @Karl7

    Game History

    Round: 4
    
        Purchase Units - Americans
            Americans buy 1 artillery, 4 infantry and 3 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 
    
        Combat Move - Americans
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to U.S. Convoy 2 Sea Zone: 3 transports
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
    
        Combat - Americans
    
        Non Combat Move - Americans
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Celtic Sea Sea Zone: 2 submarines
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from North Sea Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from British Convoy 3 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to North Sea Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to Celtic Sea Sea Zone: 1 battleship and 2 destroyers
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from Atlantic Sea Zone: 1 battleship and 2 destroyers
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from U.S. Convoy 2 Sea Zone: 3 transports
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from Atlantic Sea Zone: 2 transports
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to Celtic Sea Sea Zone: 4 transports
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone: 2 transports
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from United States: 4 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to United Kingdom: 4 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 fighter moved from United States to United Kingdom
            1 bomber and 1 fighter moved from United Kingdom to Karelia
    
        Place Units - Americans
            1 artillery and 4 infantry placed in United States
            3 transports placed in U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone
    
        Turn Complete - Americans
            Americans collect 40 PUs; end with 40 PUs
    

    USA4.tsvg

  • '22 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '12

    TripleA Turn Summary: Germans round 5

    TripleA Turn Summary for game: Europe Improved

    Game History

    Round: 5
    
        Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 2 bombers and 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 
    
        Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Belorussia
            16 armour, 9 artilleries and 32 infantry moved from East Poland to Belorussia
            2 submarines moved from North Sea Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone
            1 battleship, 1 destroyer and 1 transport moved from Baltic Sea Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone
            8 armour moved from Germany to East Poland
            6 fighters moved from Germany to East Poland
            3 infantry moved from Austria to Germany
    
        Combat - Germans
            Battle in Belorussia
                Germans attack with 16 armour, 9 artilleries and 33 infantry
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 16 armour, 9 artilleries and 33 infantry in Belorussia, round 2 : 13/58 hits, 18.00 expected hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Belorussia, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Belorussia
                Germans win, taking Belorussia from Russians with 16 armour, 9 artilleries and 33 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
    
        Non Combat Move - Germans
    
        Place Units - Germans
            2 bombers and 3 infantry placed in Germany
    
        Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 30 PUs; end with 30 PUs
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Russians regular : -0.33
    Germans regular : -5.00
    

    Savegame


  • @Karl7

    Game History

    Round: 5
    
        Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 8 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 
    
        Combat Move - Russians
            1 bomber moved from Russia to East Poland
            1 infantry moved from Ukraine S.S.R. to Rumania
                  Russians take Rumania from Germans
    
        Combat - Russians
            Battle in East Poland
                Russians attack with 1 bomber
                Germans defend with 8 armour and 6 fighters
                    Russians roll dice for 1 bomber in East Poland, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 8 armour and 6 fighters in East Poland, round 2 : 5/14 hits, 6.67 expected hits
                    1 bomber owned by the Russians lost in East Poland
                    1 armour owned by the Germans lost in East Poland
                Germans win with 7 armour and 6 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -10
                Casualties for Russians: 1 bomber
                Casualties for Germans: 1 armour
    
        Non Combat Move - Russians
            2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 40 infantry moved from Russia to Moscow
            2 armour moved from Turkestan to Moscow
            1 infantry moved from Stalingrad to Turkestan
            1 armour moved from Karelia to Moscow
            1 submarine and 1 transport moved from Barents Sea Sea Zone to North Sea Sea Zone
            1 aaGun moved from Karelia to Russia
    
        Place Units - Russians
            8 infantry placed in Moscow
    
        Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 22 PUs; end with 22 PUs
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Germans regular : -1.67
    Russians regular : 0.33
    

  • @Karl7

    Game History

    Round: 5
    
        Purchase Units - British
            British buy 4 artilleries, 2 infantry and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 
    
        Combat Move - British
                Turning on Edit Mode
                EDIT: Removing units owned by British from Celtic Sea Sea Zone: 1 submarine
                EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            2 bombers moved from United Kingdom to East Poland
            3 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Austria
                  British take Austria from Germans
            1 transport moved from Tyrrhenian Sea Sea Zone to Strait of Gibraltar Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Morocco to Strait of Gibraltar Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Strait of Gibraltar Sea Zone to Gibraltar
                  British take Gibraltar from Germans
    
        Combat - British
            Battle in East Poland
                British attack with 2 bombers
                Germans defend with 7 armour and 6 fighters
                    British roll dice for 2 bombers in East Poland, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 7 armour and 6 fighters in East Poland, round 2 : 6/13 hits, 6.33 expected hits
                    2 bombers owned by the British lost in East Poland
                    1 armour owned by the Germans lost in East Poland
                Germans win with 6 armour and 6 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -25
                Casualties for British: 2 bombers
                Casualties for Germans: 1 armour
    
        Non Combat Move - British
            1 destroyer moved from Tyrrhenian Sea Sea Zone to Strait of Gibraltar Sea Zone
            1 armour moved from Libya to Palestine
            1 fighter moved from Caucasus to Moscow
            3 fighters moved from Karelia to Moscow
            1 armour moved from Norway to Karelia
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Finland to Barents Sea Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 3 infantry and 3 transports moved from Barents Sea Sea Zone to North Sea Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from North Sea Sea Zone to United Kingdom
            1 destroyer and 1 transport moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to North Sea Sea Zone
    
        Place Units - British
            4 artilleries and 2 infantry placed in United Kingdom
            2 transports placed in North Sea Sea Zone
    
        Turn Complete - British
            British collect 40 PUs; end with 40 PUs
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Germans regular : -0.33
    British regular : -0.33
    

  • @Karl7

    Game History

    Round: 5
    
        Purchase Units - Americans
            Americans buy 1 artillery, 4 infantry and 3 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 
    
        Combat Move - Americans
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Adding units owned by British to English Channel Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to Atlantic Sea Zone: 1 transport
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            2 infantry moved from United Kingdom to Celtic Sea Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from English Channel Sea Zone to Netherlands-Belgium
            1 battleship, 2 destroyers and 2 transports moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from North Sea Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from Atlantic Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Karelia to East Poland
            1 fighter moved from United Kingdom to English Channel Sea Zone
    
        Combat - Americans
            Battle in East Poland
                Americans attack with 1 bomber
                Germans defend with 6 armour and 6 fighters
                    Americans roll dice for 1 bomber in East Poland, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 6 armour and 6 fighters in East Poland, round 2 : 6/12 hits, 6.00 expected hits
                    1 bomber owned by the Americans lost in East Poland
                Germans win with 6 armour and 6 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -15
                Casualties for Americans: 1 bomber
            Battle in English Channel Sea Zone
                British loiter and taunt; Americans attack with 1 battleship, 3 destroyers, 1 fighter and 4 transports
                Germans defend with 1 battleship, 1 destroyer, 3 submarines and 1 transport
                    Americans roll dice for 1 battleship, 3 destroyers, 1 fighter and 4 transports in English Channel Sea Zone, round 2 : 4/5 hits, 2.67 expected hits
                Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Germans
                    Germans roll dice for 3 submarines in English Channel Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 battleship, 1 destroyer and 1 transport in English Channel Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/3 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Americans
                    2 transports owned by the Americans lost in English Channel Sea Zone
                    2 submarines owned by the Germans and 1 transport owned by the Germans lost in English Channel Sea Zone
                    Americans roll dice for 1 battleship, 3 destroyers, 1 fighter and 2 transports in English Channel Sea Zone, round 3 : 2/5 hits, 2.67 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in English Channel Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 battleship and 1 destroyer in English Channel Sea Zone, round 3 : 1/2 hits, 1.17 expected hits
                    1 transport owned by the Americans lost in English Channel Sea Zone
                    1 destroyer owned by the Germans and 1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in English Channel Sea Zone
                    Americans roll dice for 1 battleship, 3 destroyers, 1 fighter and 1 transport in English Channel Sea Zone, round 4 : 4/5 hits, 2.67 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 battleship in English Channel Sea Zone, round 4 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                    1 destroyer owned by the Americans lost in English Channel Sea Zone
                    1 battleship owned by the Germans lost in English Channel Sea Zone
                Americans win with 1 battleship, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 32
                Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer and 3 transports
                Casualties for Germans: 1 battleship, 1 destroyer, 3 submarines and 1 transport
                Turning on Edit Mode
                EDIT: Removing units owned by British from English Channel Sea Zone: 1 submarine
                EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Battle in Netherlands-Belgium
    
        Non Combat Move - Americans
            2 infantry moved from United Kingdom to Celtic Sea Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from English Channel Sea Zone to Netherlands-Belgium
            1 fighter moved from English Channel Sea Zone to United Kingdom
            1 aaGun, 1 artillery and 4 infantry moved from United States to U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 1 artillery, 4 infantry and 3 transports moved from U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone to Celtic Sea Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 1 artillery and 4 infantry moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to United Kingdom
    
        Place Units - Americans
            1 artillery and 4 infantry placed in United States
            3 transports placed in U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone
    
        Turn Complete - Americans
            Americans collect 42 PUs; end with 42 PUs
            1 unit repaired.
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Americans regular : 1.33
    Germans regular : 0.50
    

    USA5.tsvg



  • @Karl7

    USA5 NCM edit final.tsvg sorry about the extra posts - i went too quickly through the western allies turns. This is how it should have been



  • '22 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '12

    TripleA Turn Summary: Germans round 6

    TripleA Turn Summary for game: Europe Improved

    Game History

    Round: 6
    
        Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 10 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 
    
        Combat Move - Germans
            16 armour, 9 artilleries and 33 infantry moved from Belorussia to Moscow
            6 armour moved from East Poland to Moscow
            4 fighters moved from East Poland to Moscow
            3 bombers moved from Germany to Moscow
            2 fighters moved from East Poland to Germany
    
        Combat - Germans
            Battle in Moscow
                Germans attack with 22 armour, 9 artilleries, 3 bombers, 4 fighters and 33 infantry
                British defend with 4 fighters and 2 infantry; Americans defend with 1 fighter; Russians defend with 1 aaGun, 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 factory, 1 fighter and 55 infantry
                    Russians roll AA dice in Moscow : 1/7 hits, 1.17 expected hits
                    1 fighter owned by the Germans lost in Moscow
                    Germans roll dice for 22 armour, 9 artilleries, 3 bombers, 3 fighters and 33 infantry in Moscow, round 2 : 26/70 hits, 24.50 expected hits
                    Russians roll dice for 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 6 fighters and 57 infantry in Moscow, round 2 : 25/68 hits, 24.67 expected hits
                    25 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Moscow
                    24 infantry owned by the Russians and 2 infantry owned by the British lost in Moscow
                    Germans roll dice for 22 armour, 9 artilleries, 3 bombers, 3 fighters and 8 infantry in Moscow, round 3 : 23/45 hits, 20.17 expected hits
                    Russians roll dice for 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 6 fighters and 31 infantry in Moscow, round 3 : 13/42 hits, 16.00 expected hits
                    5 artilleries owned by the Germans and 8 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Moscow
                    23 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Moscow
                    Germans roll dice for 22 armour, 4 artilleries, 3 bombers and 3 fighters in Moscow, round 4 : 14/32 hits, 15.83 expected hits
                    Russians roll dice for 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 6 fighters and 8 infantry in Moscow, round 4 : 9/19 hits, 8.33 expected hits
                    4 artilleries owned by the Germans and 5 armour owned by the Germans lost in Moscow
                    1 fighter owned by the Russians, 8 infantry owned by the Russians, 3 armour owned by the Russians and 2 artilleries owned by the Russians lost in Moscow
                    Germans roll dice for 17 armour, 3 bombers and 3 fighters in Moscow, round 5 : 15/23 hits, 12.00 expected hits
                    Russians roll dice for 5 fighters in Moscow, round 5 : 5/5 hits, 3.33 expected hits
                    5 armour owned by the Germans lost in Moscow
                    1 fighter owned by the Americans and 4 fighters owned by the British lost in Moscow
                Germans captures 22PUs while taking Russians capital
                Germans win, taking Moscow from Russians with 12 armour, 3 bombers and 3 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 69
                Casualties for Germans: 10 armour, 9 artilleries, 1 fighter and 33 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 55 infantry
                Casualties for British: 4 fighters and 2 infantry
                Casualties for Americans: 1 fighter
    
        Non Combat Move - Germans
            Trigger GermanVictoryConditionsMet: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachmentGermanVictorySwitch attached to Germans
            3 fighters moved from Moscow to East Poland
            3 bombers moved from Moscow to East Poland
    
        Place Units - Germans
            10 infantry placed in Germany
    
        Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 27 PUs; end with 49 PUs
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Russians regular : -0.33
    Germans regular : 5.50
    Russians AA : -0.17
    

    Savegame


  • @The_Good_Captain

    ok, so it is going to come down to 60%ish on UK strike

  • '22 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '12

    @Karl7

    I suppose I could have held 1 more ftr back… but, whatever


  • @Karl7

    Game History

    Round: 6
    
        Purchase Units - British
            British buy 1 armour, 5 artilleries and 5 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 
    
        Combat Move - British
            6 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from United Kingdom to North Sea Sea Zone
            6 artilleries, 1 destroyer, 6 infantry and 6 transports moved from North Sea Sea Zone to Danish Sea Sea Zone
            1 armour, 6 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Danish Sea Sea Zone to Germany
            3 infantry moved from Austria to Germany
            1 armour moved from Karelia to Baltic States
                  British take Baltic States from Germans
            1 armour moved from Palestine to Iran
            1 artillery moved from Gibraltar to Strait of Gibraltar Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 destroyer and 1 transport moved from Strait of Gibraltar Sea Zone to Bay of Biscay Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Bay of Biscay Sea Zone to France
                  British take France from Germans
    
        Combat - British
            Battle in Germany
                British attack with 1 armour, 6 artilleries and 9 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 aaGun, 1 factory, 2 fighters and 19 infantry
                    British roll dice for 1 destroyer in Germany, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    British roll dice for 1 armour, 6 artilleries and 9 infantry in Germany, round 2 : 3/16 hits, 5.00 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 fighters and 19 infantry in Germany, round 2 : 9/21 hits, 7.67 expected hits
                    9 infantry owned by the British lost in Germany
                    3 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Germany
                    British roll dice for 1 armour and 6 artilleries in Germany, round 3 : 5/7 hits, 2.50 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 fighters and 16 infantry in Germany, round 3 : 9/18 hits, 6.67 expected hits
                    6 artilleries owned by the British and 1 armour owned by the British lost in Germany
                    5 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Germany
                Germans win with 2 fighters and 11 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -32
                Casualties for British: 1 armour, 6 artilleries and 9 infantry
                Casualties for Germans: 8 infantry
    
        Non Combat Move - British
    
        Place Units - British
            1 armour, 5 artilleries and 5 infantry placed in United Kingdom
    
        Turn Complete - British
            British collect 44 PUs; end with 44 PUs
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Germans regular : 3.67
    British regular : 0.17
    

  • @Karl7

    Game History

    Round: 6
    
        Purchase Units - Americans
            Americans buy 4 artilleries, 4 infantry and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 6 PUs; 
    
        Combat Move - Americans
            4 infantry moved from Netherlands-Belgium to Germany
            1 battleship and 2 destroyers moved from English Channel Sea Zone to Danish Sea Sea Zone
            4 infantry moved from United Kingdom to English Channel Sea Zone
            4 infantry and 2 transports moved from English Channel Sea Zone to Danish Sea Sea Zone
            4 infantry moved from Danish Sea Sea Zone to Germany
            3 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from United Kingdom to Celtic Sea Sea Zone
            3 artilleries, 2 infantry and 3 transports moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to Danish Sea Sea Zone
            3 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Danish Sea Sea Zone to Germany
            1 fighter moved from United Kingdom to Germany
            1 artillery and 4 infantry moved from United States to U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 4 infantry and 3 transports moved from U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone to Celtic Sea Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 4 infantry moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to United Kingdom
    
        Combat - Americans
            Battle in Germany
                Americans attack with 3 artilleries, 1 fighter and 10 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 aaGun, 1 factory, 2 fighters and 11 infantry
                    Germans roll AA dice in Germany : 1/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                    1 fighter owned by the Americans lost in Germany
                    Americans roll dice for 1 battleship and 2 destroyers in Germany, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                    Americans roll dice for 3 artilleries and 10 infantry in Germany, round 2 : 6/13 hits, 3.17 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 fighters and 11 infantry in Germany, round 2 : 5/13 hits, 5.00 expected hits
                    5 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Germany
                    7 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Germany
                    Americans roll dice for 3 artilleries and 5 infantry in Germany, round 3 : 3/8 hits, 2.33 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 fighters and 4 infantry in Germany, round 3 : 1/6 hits, 2.67 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Germany
                    3 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Germany
                    Americans roll dice for 3 artilleries and 4 infantry in Germany, round 4 : 1/7 hits, 2.17 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 fighters and 1 infantry in Germany, round 4 : 2/3 hits, 1.67 expected hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Germany
                    1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Germany
                    Americans roll dice for 3 artilleries and 2 infantry in Germany, round 5 : 0/5 hits, 1.67 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 fighters in Germany, round 5 : 2/2 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Germany
                    Americans roll dice for 3 artilleries in Germany, round 6 : 2/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 fighters in Germany, round 6 : 1/2 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                    1 artillery owned by the Americans lost in Germany
                    2 fighters owned by the Germans lost in Germany
                Americans captures 49PUs while taking Germans capital
                Americans win, taking Germany from Germans with 2 artilleries remaining. Battle score for attacker is 11
                Casualties for Americans: 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 10 infantry
                Casualties for Germans: 2 fighters and 11 infantry
    
        Non Combat Move - Americans
    
        Place Units - Americans
            4 artilleries and 4 infantry placed in United States
            1 transport placed in U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone
    
        Turn Complete - Americans
            Americans collect 48 PUs; end with 103 PUs
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Americans regular : 1.33
    Germans AA : 0.83
    Germans regular : -1.00
    

    USA6.tsvg


  • @Karl7 GG man.

  • The_Good_CaptainT The_Good_Captain referenced this topic on

  • @The_Good_Captain

    USA won on a 22%!

    LOL

    Dang


  • @Karl7 …only bc the British did so awful. Otherwise, as you pointed out earlier - the game was 60% Allies going into the allied side of turn 6…

    This is one of the points we uncovered early on: If the Western Allies are ‘doing it right’, the Germans will be forced to fight the battle of Moscow on G6 followed immediately by the battle of Berlin. And they must win both. The allies only need to win one of them to win the game - the Germans need to win both.

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