• I read somewhere on this forum about the a disappointing performance of their aircraft.  I consider myself an aircraft junkie and upon getting my 1st plane a JU87 Stuka out of the box proceded to use it in my first game.  I held it in reserve looking for an opportunity to strike.  I had my opportunity and went in for the kill and got …. NOTHING.  A dive bomber like this should be able to inflict much more damage than what is portrayed on the card.  In addition the plane showed is a tank killer and was very effective in Russia.  I know I’m griping but perhap they could put a little bit more punch into the aircraft I think it would be worth upping the cost IF they were useful.  I wasted 21 points and the plane did nothing.  Just a thought.

    Regards,

    Axis Fan


  • If you got nothing because of a bad roll that’s hardly the plane’s fault. At least you didn’t throw it at your opponents army like so many players tend to - that’s a sure way to lose your plane. The best way to use the Stuka, or most aircraft, is to keep it back and look for opportunities. Try to soften targets up first with your AT units.

    It has a bit better than a 1-in-3 chance of disrupting a defence 6 units, and jumps up to 62% vs defence 5.


  • Even though the Stukas rolls against vehicles are great, for some reason I dont get the results that I want.  Maybe its just my personal experiences, but with me, the Stuka doesnt do the job I want it to do.  Perhaps in the future it will work out for me.


  • What are you guys using them against?


  • @Der:

    What are you guys using them against?

    Tanks of course.  I usually attempt to take down heavy vehicles, but sometimes they dont even budge.  Im starting to think I should probaly take down light and medium vehicles with it.


  • Well yes, if you were using them to take out other aircraft I’d have to start wondering about you.

    Stukas aren’t too good against heavy tanks - they just don’t have enough dice.  They have the same SR/MR dice as a Panzer III F; you don’t expect it to take out an IS-2, etc. I can’t stress enough that they need to wait for their potential target to be disrupted - not only does it lower the defence and make it possible for the Stuka to do some serious damage, but also reduces it’s attack against your aircraft to only hitting on 6’s. (Of course this doesn’t matter as much against fixed howitzer/etc units, or those with little/no AI values).


  • You have a point as far as the dice roll is concerned ( I didn’t get the best rolls and that is perhaps part of the problem).  I would think dive Bombers would have a little better damage on anything.  Since my Panther wreaded havoc on the light armor I was presented with one soft targed a screaming eagle infantry.  I’m just making an observation but Infantry in the open with a Stuka going in on it.  It just seems in a real scenario they would get peppered. And why we shouldn’t go after a P-51 with a Stuka!! (Just Kidding)  I was lucky that my opponent did not field any aircraft or it may have never seen the game.

    Regards,

    Axis fan


  • It is true that the Stuka has its pluses and minuses.  But if it is used right especially against infantry or soft targets it works great.  If you want to complain about a weak plane look at the stats of the zero.


  • @starwiz01:

    It is true that the Stuka has its pluses and minuses.  But if it is used right especially against infantry or soft targets it works great.  If you want to complain about a weak plane look at the stats of the zero.

    The zero isnt complete crap.  It just has a bad defense, but its 12 points for one and has the same rolls as the me-109 and spitfire.


  • The Stuka has 5/3/- vs infantry, making it fairly useless in that regard. I suppose if you have absolutely nothing better to do you can pick on disrupted infantry or artillery.

    I’d like to defend the Zero, but the truth simply is that it’s bad.  What would merely disrupt a normal aircraft destroys it. Even regular infantry (which you will rarely if ever see in a competitive army) with 6 dice at medium range have almost a 1-in-3 chance of disrupting it. They work alright if you use packs of three and are careful of their placement, but thats a fair portion of your army.


  • From what I’m hearing, the stuka isn’t a killer. I’m an aircraft junkie myslef and somewhat of an expert on Luftwaffe Aircraft. That plane should cost A LOT and should kill or pin down anything it strikes. The model I’ve seen shows either 37 or 55mm cannons mounted under both wings. Those cannons could rip apart a smaller ship in a single volley. I’ve seen the gun cam footage of those guns being used. The explosions are huge from their shells.

    Plus the Stuka was an amazingly accurate dive bomber and some were given the “Siren of Jericho” which demoralized and struck fear into troops as they made passes.

    Even after the Stuka was out of ammunition, in support of ground forces, they would continue to make dives to get that loud siren to freak soldiers out. The siren alone has honestly pinned down entire units who were expecting a precision bomb to end their lives at any second. I haven’t seen the Stuka card but it sounds like it’s versatility and success as a ground support aircraft is vastly underrated. That sucks! C’mon Axis & Allies!!!


  • I’m no aircraft expert but my fairly extensive WWII history knowledge has always made me believe that the Stuka should be more powerful in this game


  • The Stuka was the A-10 of its day. They need to add a SA that would make it weaker to aircraft, but as a trade-off make it scary as all hell when taking on armor.


  • I’m so glad that some of you are in agreement in this.

    Perhaps if they haven’t made this already, they will come out with the Junkers 88. Another remarkable precision bomber. It was dubbed the “wonder bomber” when it entered service and as a twin engine fighter/bomber. It was quite manueverable for it’s size and served as a reasonable fighter or fighter escort. The armament ranged by different variations of the JU-88, but it included up to the MG 151/20 cannons. With an external bomb load of 4,409 lbs and an internal load of 1,102 lbs, it could carry a devastating delivery to a precise targe as a dive bomber.

    It’s maximun speed was 323mph! Amazing for a twin engine, dive bomber. It could also “carpet bomb” with impressive precision.

    Depending on the make, it could have 4 fixed guns in the nose or 1-2 trainable guns protuding out of the front windscreen. Two, trainable machine guns rear of the cockpit and an aditional rear facing, trainable gun in the underside gondola. 3-4 man crew.

    Hopefully Axis and Allies can make up for their gross underestmate of the Stukas power by giving us German Commanders this plane with appropriate rules and points to coincide with it’s devistating effectiveness and versatility. (I’m probably dreaming though.) The planes in this game straight up suck. That’s my only complaint of the whole game (if you don’t count my bitch about those damn paratroopers being able to land anywhere they want) Paratroopers often missed their target by miles or were killed on the way down.

    Sorry for the rant guys, being a history buff, I can’t even watch movies with major historical flaws in them.


  • @Obergruppenfuhrer:

    Sorry for the rant guys, being a history buff, I can’t even watch movies with major historical flaws in them.

    Totally! Even just nonsensical things like in National Treasure when that old frozen boat full of 200-300 year-old gunpower blows up so massively. The gunpowder was super old, and the barrels were full of frost. Either one of those things would nullify an explosion. Same with when cops hold their guns pointing straight up with their elbows bent… FAKE


  • LOL! I know! Or when officers “shoot to wound” or someones arm to get them to drop their weapon! My dear god. Officers are required to shoot to kill if they discharge their weapons. Also – sometime those gun fights where people are shooting each other on TV from over 100 yards away while moving with a 9mm pistol. Ummm, ever heard of “drop”? or “range”? or how about even “Gravity??”
    It cracks me up.


  • I think with the volume they had to work with, WotC did a decent job making the units in this game accurate. I just hope the areas, like the Stuka, where they slipped up get fixed. I just hope they do the heavy artillery right in the next expansion.


  • @Ducky:

    I think with the volume they had to work with, WotC did a decent job making the units in this game accurate. I just hope the areas, like the Stuka, where they slipped up get fixed. I just hope they do the heavy artillery right in the next expansion.

    Yeah I agree. Planes could be very inaccurate trying to shoot at a small division of men or trying to drop a 500 kg bomb near them. However, the Stuka in particular was SO accurate for its time. And those 37 and 55mm guns? Man. Those things would take out a tank about as easy as a nashorn could. Stukas are the ONE aircraft they have where I think they totally missed how effective it was in ground support. They should be WAY better but cost A LOT.


  • @Obergruppenfuhrer:

    if you don’t count my b**** about those damn paratroopers being able to land anywhere they want) Paratroopers often missed their target by miles or were killed on the way down.

    Just so its said, the deployment of Paratroopers is NOT meant to portray them drifting down from the heavens mid fire-fight.  This has been repeatedly stated by WotC staff.

    They are supposed to represent the active behind enemy lines troops.

    Given that, I’m OK with Paratroopers.

    Well, actually, I’m OK that they deploy behind the lines, but I really think it should be required on turn 1.  Its silly to have paratroopers come charging out of a group of trees that a turn before help enemy troops.  They are not ninjas for cryin’ out load!


  • Just so its said, the deployment of Paratroopers is NOT meant to portray them drifting down from the heavens mid fire-fight.  This has been repeatedly stated by WotC staff.

    They are supposed to represent the active behind enemy lines troops.

    Given that, I’m OK with Paratroopers.

    Well, actually, I’m OK that they deploy behind the lines, but I really think it should be required on turn 1.  Its silly to have paratroopers come charging out of a group of trees that a turn before help enemy troops.  They are not ninjas for cryin’ out load!

    Yeah - Now that you bring that into perspective, I can see where it’s value is and where it would be realistic. I do agree with you partially on the turn one thing. It’s just totally wierd to have a paratrooper in turn 3 or 4 magically appear in a clear grass hex in the middle my men (not adjacent, but close enough). Your right, they’re not ninjas. They are also not magical little elves that appear with a poof of pixie dust in the most convenient space available.

    Now that I have the German Paratroopers, I’m complaining A LITTLE less. ok, a lot less.

    My gripe with the Stuka still stands. It should be an accurate and devistating troop killer with the option (representation would be fine in stats) to bomb or use those 37mm or 55mm’s. They should cost a lot to coincide. Additionally the allies should have their most accurate fighter/bomber represented that is comparable: and what else but the de Havilland Mosquito!


  • Unless the historical context requires paratroops to be behind the lines I like to use paratroops as they normally are used, just as high speed soldiers.  I usually don’t allow their paratroop ability.

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