AARHE: Phase 3: Income


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Tekky are we finished with Phase two? If not what still needs to be finished? (other than what you guys are talking about).

    Also phase three rules seem quite small by comparison… I suppose its not the rules relating to the map changes and adding Italy/lend lease rules.

    If i can get a clear picture of where we are at this project could be finished in a week.


  • Moderator

    Tekky: I understand that… I am trying to flow with an a. option, and still get results that appear like actual flow… I think the way this is implemented in actual shipping methods… Maybe make you should be able to buy transports and put them in a player “shipping box”… Subs can choose to raid the shipping boxes when in Certain SZ’s, listed as the “route” next to the transport… this is "hidden by the player, so the enemy has to guess exactly where it is or by process of elimination… It still doesn’t put pieces on the board, but it gives a random location feel for players…

    Imp: This is Phase 3…

    GG



  • yeah I guess we are sorta in phase 3 already

    this income, national advantage, national victory stuff are just touching up

    have you been able to come up with non-accounting-intensive solutions for the missing bits of national victory yet?

    after that we’ll remove the phase 1 national unit/build and national advantage and call it phase 2 final I guess

    the last upload of the document (now in 1 column) was a couple of days ago

    we could get a background/backdrop/watermark, convert to pdf and release phase 2 via your site!


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    OK ill get to work… not my site here… on the front page.



  • front page?
    graphics for phase 2 front page?


  • Moderator

    front page of AaA.org… Hey Tekky, a response to what I posted? Do you like or dislike? Qualms with it?

    GG



  • yeah your idea should be going towards a sweet spot

    so a player could write down a routing decision

    (need come up with a simplified routing system though, UK player would choose how to spread convoy IPCs between a couple of SZs
    the system may not be easy to come up…it gotta cater for new ICs which convoy no longer all go towards Capital and a global aspect looking out for gameplay like Japan taking Africa)

    routing deicision is revealed at the beginning of the player’s next collect income phase to see which how shippings were hit

    and a dice system like mentioned before
    each hostile naval unit (excluding transports) hits 1 IPC on a 3

    no adjacent hitting stuff


  • Moderator

    I like it!

    I am thinking of making it where you have IPC’s coming in based on the amount of Transports coming in, but it could constantly change like 3 seperate SZ’s along this route, and you could move a Chit to a new one every turn (unknown by the enemy), so you could make it a little confusing…

    GG



  • don’t get what you mean
    “3 separate SZ’s along this route”?

    and I am to ask by now, whats a Chit? those grey chips we put under game units to represent duplicate?


  • Moderator

    Yes that is a chit…

    The idea that I thought of was this… Instead of just having one SZ that represents the convoy of a particular route, why not have 3 SZ (max so it doesn’t get to complex) that represent it. Since you can hide them you can also hide where your “convoy” is, requring the enemy to hunt it… But since we have already stated that the convoys will be pretty defensless, they still make Sub hunting a profitable business… The catch is that since you still might want to cover those convoys with fleets eventually the enemy will know where you keep them… And if you make it so that the convoy must be in a different SZ each turn that means you will have to cover atleast 2 Zones… Battle of the Atlantic!

    GG



  • oh I see what you mean

    now how routes?

    and does UK use Africa, Panama or Med Sea route?


  • Moderator

    Either they are “pre-approved” on the chart, or written in… Pretty much the start of the convoy is well known (they can be write in as well, give me feedback on that one) And the British can use any Canal that is friendly…

    GG



  • so can UK simultaneously use the panama, africa, and suez route?
    if so what kind of break down is possible?

    kinda difficult but nice if we can come up with a system/format/formula/equation that applies nicely to how convoy SZs are chosen among all players

    or if too difficult we have to use a fairly static method and make it for UK and Japan only


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    When you guys decide the convoy system post the entire idea as you want it in the rules. I dont have much time to figure it out.


  • Moderator

    Tekkyy, I think I get what your going at… Basically it must be routed through the shortest route, so if that means through the Pacific, so be it (but I doubt that will be necessary, except maybe with the Australian Convoy)… After you choose the route, either you have a set pattern for the target zones, or you can choose them yourself, provided one of them is adjacent to the End Destination…

    Convoys:
    Convoys are means of transporting your economy from distant holdings to your home factories. 2 Territories will be considered the Home Territory, where you are routing from; and the Destination Territory, where you are routing too. You may buy a route during your purchase units phase. Routes are through the shortest routes to your factories; this includes Canals, except if they are enemy occupied at the beginning of your turn. After choosing the route secretly, pay 1 IPC per SZ the route travels through. You must also choose 3 SZ’s, called target SZ’s where your convoy can get attacked from. One of them must be adjacent to the Destination Territory. The other 2 are at the discretion of the player. Record them on your shipping log. Your route may now transfer IPC’s from the home territory and all adjacent territories to to the destination territory. The Income is added at your collect income phase by counting up the IPC’s recorded on the appropriate shipping logs.
            The enemy may choose to raid your convoys. Any Naval or Air Unit with an Attack Value may choose to search for your convoys. Use the ASW Search Roll for this action. If he is correct, and finds a convoy, he may preform an attack against it, using his attack values. This lasts for only 1 round. For every hit, you must remove 3 IPC’s from your bank. If the convoy is being guarded by your own naval shipping the enemy must defeat your defending fleet before he can attack.

    I want to change the last part to must make a breakthrough roll, but I haven’t figure that out…

    GG



  • What do you mean breakthrough roll?
    I think we don’t need a search and attack thing. But just one roll.

    And I am thinking military units are mostly overkill for convoys.
    So I would let destroyer kill convoys just as easy as battleships.
    (All naval units except transport, all air units except saturation-bombers)

    With the shortest route thing. Do we figure out the shortest route for every territory?


  • Moderator

    Breakthrough refers to breaching the enemy convoy defense fleet…
    OK, I could agree with 1 roll…
    Any “Military” Naval units can kill Convoys.
    it can be figured out in your head… If you want to do it that way though, we could always have a “cheat sheet” with Income supported in each territory and cost… I would just do it in your head…

    GG



  • @Guerrilla:

    Any “Military” Naval units can kill Convoys.

    Specificially, can Transports hit convoys?
    And I am thinking for air units only Naval Fighers/Fighters on Aircraft Carrier.

    @Guerrilla:

    Income supported in each territory and cost

    Income and cost? Is this that thing about buying convoys?
    Is that neccessary?

    And what about that convoy transportation issue?
    Can all sea shore territories send income via sea?
    Can convoy go sea-land-sea? I would think sea only or land-sea.


  • Moderator

    Specificially, can Transports hit convoys?

    • No

    And I am thinking for air units only Naval Fighers/Fighters on Aircraft Carrier.

    • Fighters on land were used in Convoy raiding expeditions. No reason why they should be discluded, except maybe that they can only attack Coastal Zones.

    Income and cost? Is this that thing about buying convoys? Is that neccessary?

    • Yes! That is why I mentioned it as optional since I thought it would be unnecessary.

    And what about that convoy transportation issue?

    • That is all on the log, either check off system or number write in. Could you be more specific about what you mean here? I think I know but I can’t be sure.

    Can all sea shore territories send income via sea?

    • Yes. You write them in and the adjacent territories supported.

    Can convoy go sea-land-sea? I would think sea only or land-sea.

    • Land sea. too complex other way…

    GG



  • yeah ok
    I prefer don’t need to buy convoy chips

    ok now need to design a sheet/table
    one that makes it simple, easy and obvious to the player the shortest routes

    and decide when are the dice rolls rolled
    during enemy turn
    or during your collect income


  • Moderator

    Yep, no buying convoy chips just routes.

    I can give you some ideas, but I have all the rudimentary paint programs so I am not the man that can work it, but basically we will need:

    A list form of to-from locations, 3 boxes beside them (for “combat” SZ’s), cost(length), and how much income is supported.

    During enemy combat. You can put chips on top of a “roundel” that has the Convoy value on it.

    GG



  • during enemy combat?

    so attack on convoy is an actual attack?
    like if your destroyer took part in raiding convoys it can’t perform other attacks this turn?

    I was thinking raiding convoy is a small passive thing
    convoys takes its chances and try to go through hostile sea zone

    whereas a normal combat move is a big active thing
    to make convoy raiding under that category I would let the units raid convoys in the 2-3 sea zones it is moving between/among


  • Moderator

    Ok, I understand your reasoning there. I think then that it should be a separate action of “engagement”. So movement and raiding is the same turn, or maybe you should have to be in the same SZ in order to raid… Either way, it would still be simple to the point… I hate adding new phases but this one shouldn’t be much…

    GG



  • nah don’t need to add a new phase
    if you agree with my reasoning
    we just make it a small thing that does not take up combat moves

    how about just roll the dice in collect income? after revealing your log


  • Moderator

    OK, but don’t we collect income at the end of our turn? How can you use a fleet to protect a convoy if it isn’t in combat?

    GG


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