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POLL: Most important Builds in Turn 1 (AAR



  • Not looking for explicit and complete builds, just the MAIN purchase(s) made that are critical in Turn 1.  Again, you may choose up to 5.



  • Your russian purchases and attacks depend first on the bid. Then your russian ncm may depend on the dice results. Now the german purchases may depend on all that happened before. UK-purchases are even more dependant on where german navy and air force is. Even Japan may not be able to build trn because of too many UK-fleet and airforce around sz60 and sz61.

    What I wanted to say is that you can serioiusly answer this question only for Russia, everything else depends!



  • True, but everyone has their “general style” of game play… what they plan to do for each of the 5 nations at start.

    The polls for NCM and builds were geared to that.

    As with any plan though, they never survive contact with the enemy, which in this case is almost invariably going to be R1 🙂


  • 2007 AAR League

    How about British Transports, UK is kinda useless without them.



  • My rationale for my votes:

    1.  Russian FIG.  With 3 FIGs, Russia has plenty of offensive punch for territory trading in Europe to keep her income up, without leaving expensive ARM behind to be killed on a German counter attack.  Those FIGs also provide some serious defensive punch, and when combined with stacked INF, create a very nice Russian Meat Grinder for German forces that attack core territories.

    2.  Baltic AC.  Cheapest way to get serious defense out of the Baltic Fleet.  Also creates long-range risk to Allies fleets by German FIGs since, unless contianed, the AC can sail out to recover FIGs that attack as far away as SZ2.  It also maintains a minimal Sea Lion threat that keeps UK “honest”.

    3.  UK AC.  In my opinion, this is the key to establishing control in the Atlantic, and in protecting TRNs that will be used to destroy Germany.  Without solid fleet defense from the start, the German AF and Navy are too great of a threat and will thwart Allied landing attempts until either fleet defense IS built by the Allies, or attrition finally takes out the Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine, which may well occur too late for the Allies to save Russia.

    4.  Japan IC (either Manch or FIC).  While TRNs are nice, that early IC will have huge production value against Russia.  Also, Japan hits their build limit VERY quickly without a second IC.  A J1 IC purchase prevents the build limit from being an immediate issue and allows Japan to maximize their drive on Moscow.

    5.  US Atlantic TRNs.  The key to victory in KGF.  Get the US into the European war as fast and as hard as possible.



  • @ajgundam5:

    How about British Transports, UK is kinda useless without them.

    Added a "UK Other"option (missed it on initial creation of the poll).


  • 2007 AAR League

    we agree completely except the japan ic build, i think you need the trannys to empty the islands , and island hop as soon as possible



  • You still have 3 TRN after J1, instead of 5 with an all TRN buy.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Another decent question, in line with this thread is:

    Do you think England or America should build an Industrial Complex in Finland/Norway?  (Depends on who owns it.)



  • My answer is… neither.

    Transports are more effective at threatening a much larger portion of Germany’s territories.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Wouldn’t it be much easier for America to get troops into Europe through an IC in Norway? That would reduce the amount of transports needed and make getting to Germany quicker making it a good trade … assuming the Baltic Fleet is toast.



  • Once the Baltic Fleet is toast, Norway is no longer at risk

    Troops in Norway require 3 turns to threaten Germany by land.  US Eastern transported troops only require 2 turns.

    Also, Norway troops, unless supported by 2 TRNs (one of which has half of its capacity wasted) can only strike via Karelia to Eastern to Germany.  Transported troops threaten Western, Germany, Eastern, Southern in just 2 turns of movement.  Forcing Germany to spread out his defenses is worth a LOT of extra units…


  • 2007 AAR League

    It wouldn’t replace the transport system just assist it



  • @ajgundam5:

    It wouldn’t replace the transport system just assist it

    By that time, I think it would be superfluous.

    UK can;t afford to build it.  Heck, they need $32 just to keep their 4 TRNs filled with the optimum load… which corresponds with their build limit.
    USA can build 12 units in EUS, requiring 12 TRNs and $52 to maintain optimum loads.

    By the time either of those two nations has the cash to spare for an IC, they won’t need to buy one anymore.  They can just use Rome or Berlin to build more units 🙂


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    I was thinking along the same lines.  With an IC in Norway you can afford to loose transports for the opportunity of shooting down fighters.  Or you can just use transports to block the jap fleet and still get the same number of units.  Or you can feed troops to a different front.  Or you can feed troops to Russia for homeland defense while still pressuring Europe with transports.

    After all, USA only needs 8 transports to be effective with an IC.  They need 10-12 without one.



  • My rationale for my votes:

    1.  Russian FIG.  With 3 FIGs, Russia has plenty of offensive punch for territory trading in Europe to keep her income up, without leaving expensive ARM behind to be killed on a German counter attack.  Those FIGs also provide some serious defensive punch, and when combined with stacked INF, create a very nice Russian Meat Grinder for German forces that attack core territories.

    2.  Baltic AC.  Cheapest way to get serious defense out of the Baltic Fleet.  Also creates long-range risk to Allies fleets by German FIGs since, unless contianed, the AC can sail out to recover FIGs that attack as far away as SZ2.  It also maintains a minimal Sea Lion threat that keeps UK “honest”.

    3.  UK AC.  In my opinion, this is the key to establishing control in the Atlantic, and in protecting TRNs that will be used to destroy Germany.  Without solid fleet defense from the start, the German AF and Navy are too great of a threat and will thwart Allied landing attempts until either fleet defense IS built by the Allies, or attrition finally takes out the Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine, which may well occur too late for the Allies to save Russia.

    4.  Japan IC (either Manch or FIC).  While TRNs are nice, that early IC will have huge production value against Russia.  Also, Japan hits their build limit VERY quickly without a second IC.  A J1 IC purchase prevents the build limit from being an immediate issue and allows Japan to maximize their drive on Moscow.

    5.  US Atlantic TRNs.  The key to victory in KGF.  Get the US into the European war as fast and as hard as possible.

    This seems like the tabia and I play some of these but it’s always good to question the tabia to see if there is a better way.

    Russian Fighter- Useful but do you need it turn 1? A turn 1 land buy turn 2 ftr is definitely an alternative. You won’t really make full use of 3 ftrs until turn 3. With a land buy Russia has an early inf edge on the front which limits Germany’s aggressiveness unless he wants to lose arm/art.

    Baltic AC - I’ve always played it but now I question whether a destroyer would be sufficient. If the full UK fleet is stationed northeast of UK you don’t really want to send 4 ftrs and a bomber after it anyway. Against any merger block the destroyer is actually better. A dedicated attack will kill either fleet, though of course the carrier will extract a higher price.

    Japan IC-Yes but round 1? Without 4 transports your not maxing Japan’s capacity and will likely not have time to go infantry picking in the Pacific. Also you initial push into Asia is stalled a bit. 2 inf might be important against an Allied attack whether it be KJF or just a strike against weakness.

    UK car/US tran- Why not the other way around? US has more money to spent on luxury’s and UK can more efficiently pump troops into Europe.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Thing is, even with a British AC you cannot effectively use the British fleet on R1 or R2 because the Germans can sink it with their fleet and airforce.

    So what do you do?  How do you use your fleet on the first two rounds without loosing it to the Germans?  Bear in mind, it’s two rounds before you can get a DD and 2 Trans from America to help defend your fleet.



  • I’m not sure you can use it in the first two rounds but regardless in what order and who builds transports, ACs, land units and fighters, the allies can’t really threaten much in the first two rounds without exposing their fleet. Just aim for a big round 3.


  • 2007 AAR League

    The IC in Norway is a good thing for the UK I think. (they always seem limited because of there 8 units on UK limit)

    In my game vs Darth, I had 5 trns, and a IC on Norway (so your matching 10 units for units with Berlin right there…)

    it doesn’t take much to get over 32$ with UK… lets see… Africa saved… and you own Norway 33 right there… little own your pesty drops on WE or EE or surruounding areas that will boost it to 35-40…

    Plus an IC in Norway can create units to help the north line of supporting troops to Moscow to help vs the japs…

    All in All an IC in Norway comes in handy, of course not for the first few turns, you have to first kill the baltic fleet, drop in Norway in force and have the americans around to help.



  • For Rocks…

    Both the TRN purchase and the IC would come into use at the same time:  J2.

    Japan only has 6 units on it to start, 2 of those probably TRN’d to Asia on J1.  Even if your fleet is in SZ60 (risky with US forces that can hit it), you can just barely gill up 3 TRN using Japan, Wake, and Oki forces.  If you are in SZ61 (more likely), then you only have 4 divisions available for immediate transport.  So, 3 TRN or 5 TRN makes no difference, you only get 4 divisions to Asia on J2.  And IC on J1 increases that to 7 divisions…


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @NoMercy:

    The IC in Norway is a good thing for the UK I think. (they always seem limited because of there 8 units on UK limit)

    In my game vs Darth, I had 5 trns, and a IC on Norway (so your matching 10 units for units with Berlin right there…)

    it doesn’t take much to get over 32$ with UK… lets see… Africa saved… and you own Norway 33 right there… little own your pesty drops on WE or EE or surruounding areas that will boost it to 35-40…

    Plus an IC in Norway can create units to help the north line of supporting troops to Moscow to help vs the japs…

    All in All an IC in Norway comes in handy, of course not for the first few turns, you have to first kill the baltic fleet, drop in Norway in force and have the americans around to help.

    The other option with England is to build RAF with excess cash.  8 Units plus an extra fighter here and there to replace your 17% losses from AA Guns would be nice.  Of course, against Infantry Rocks or your later AA Guns I’d need to factor in 80% losses to AA Guns….(hell, whenever I run battle sims I never include my fighters/bombers in the sim if there’s an AA Gun there, I assume 100% accuracy and I’m rarely disappointed.)


  • 2007 AAR League

    which is why SBR is over-rated. why bother?

    I only find it useful for when the Axis are a turn or two away from hitting Moscow and they want to prevent them from making them extra 1-3 units each turn before the assualt.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    SBR is okay if you arn’t using the bomber for anything else and you don’t have immediate plans for it (like need it in the next 1 or 2 rounds.)

    And the number one thing you should always do in any AAR game is to NEVER ALLOW ME TO ROLL THE DICE FOR THE EGYPT BATTLE, at least not if you want me to roll in YOUR favor!


  • 2007 AAR League

    you did fine in our game

    75% on defense and the same if not better on the counter-attack but after that I was letting you near Egypt without a fight.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Okay, 1:30 I do well in Egypt even with ungodly attack to defense ratios. 😛  Everyone has a bad day Mercy. hehe

    Watch Germany loose everything hitting Egypt this game…I bet the Egyptians even figure out a way to sink the German Battleship with bolt action rifles!


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