Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense


  • @krieghund

    Exactly. Anyhow, I find way more unhistorical aspects beyond this. I still enjoy the games though as games.


  • @poptech

    Here are some more realistic games for the Pacific War of World War 2 (haven’t played any yet).

    http://combinedfleet.com/games.php


  • @krieghund lol surprised you even replied. My favorite is when he says it should be a permanent rule change LMAO !


  • @superbattleshipyamato 1941 is the worst edition. It is supposed to be an introduction game but is the least forgiving to any mistakes.


  • @arthur-bomber-harris You don’t have to industrialize anything new, it just requires one more step of transport movement. It is not “my” house rules but a setting that has been in TripleA for a long time. People seem to play this with house ruled “bids” all the time, instead of addressing the actual problems with the game like the nonsensical bonus movement which breaks so many historical aspects of it.

    You really think it is historically realistic that Gibraltar is an invasion point for both mainland Italy and Germany? With bonus movement off the Allies actually have to invade the mediterranean first to take Italy. With the magic movement rule they can just park a big fleet in the Atlantic and stack a million troops in Gibraltar.


  • @superbattleshipyamato said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:

    @poptech

    The game doesn’t simulate logistics. It’s extremely inaccurate. Take your anger out on that, not air bases and naval bases.

    And sure, planes usually topped out with fuel. But with bigger, more developed air bases you dan probably stuff more fuel in the planes (overloading them, more than normal).

    If you think it’s inaccurate (it is) you’ll need to do way, way more than just removing the abilities of naval and air bases.

    This makes no sense. You cannot magically fit more fuel in a fuel tank because you are refueling at an airfield. The game abstracts movement but the movement is uniform for the units except for the airfields and shipyards which take a historic game and turn it into pure fantasy. There is no logical reason for the bonus movement to break the uniformity of the games established unit movement.


  • @krieghund said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:

    It always interests me from among the many, many things that are abstracted in the broad-brush approach of these games what certain players home in on as “unrealistic”. I guess it depends on either what each individual’s pet interest is or what game mechanism they dislike the most. In any case, the bonus movement from bases is simply a very broad abstraction of the logistical advantage they provide, and, like it or dislike it, they do add an element of strategy to the game.

    No I read the rules of the game and found the bonus movement the most unrealistic thing ever added to this series BEFORE I played a game with it. There is no “logistical advantage” that either gives to making a plane fly farther or a ship sail further. Airfields reduce maintenance on aircraft allowing them to fly more often NOT further. They do not magically give aircraft larger fuel tanks. Shipyards again are used for maintenance, they do not increase how far a ship can sail.

    Bonus movement is the most destructive element to historical accuracy in this game series. You are not learning some new strategy but using an unrealistic exploit. The larger games should strive for more historical accuracy not less.


  • @barnee said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:

    @krieghund lol surprised you even replied. My favorite is when he says it should be a permanent rule change LMAO !

    Yes it should be a permanent rule change, the game plays better without it. It allows Italy to actually have a chance to control the mediterranean and Africa, slows down Japan’s airforce and requires the Allies to strategically invade Europe instead of just stacking Gibraltar with millions of troops. Bonus movement allows silly things to happen all over the map, mostly involving bombers flying to insane areas.


  • @poptech LOOK. Airbases are established centers of aerospace logistics. Bombers don’t fuel in open fields, fighters don’t get supplies of ammo and payloads of bombs they precision drop on tanks from mountaintops. Centers where military airbases are located need to be featured in some detail in a game like this. Military bases are not civilian bases. Bombers need long runways to fly off with tons of bombs.

    Also, you need some mechanism to damage them just like factories. The idea is not unrealistic. Naval bases have a similar function.

    I would have taken it a step further with railroad concentrations that can also be damaged.

    Go to Ukraine and see the problems associated with keeping an airbase operational during wartime.

    But never complain about this again until you do.


  • @imperious-leader said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:

    @poptech LOOK. Airbases are established centers of aerospace logistics. Bombers don’t fuel in open fields, fighters don’t get supplies of ammo and payloads of bombs they precision drop on tanks from mountaintops. Centers where military airbases are located need to be featured in some detail in a game like this. Military bases are not civilian bases. Bombers need long runways to fly off with tons of bombs.

    Also, you need some mechanism to damage them just like factories. The idea is not unrealistic. Naval bases have a similar function.

    I would have taken it a step further with railroad concentrations that can also be damaged.

    Go to Ukraine and see the problems associated with keeping an airbase operational during wartime.

    But never complain about this again until you do.

    That is nice except you just need a road and supply trucks to make a combat airfield and in most cases just a flat open field.

    alt text

    The German’s had no problem refueling bombers in open fields.

    alt text

    All of your arguments are about WHERE aircraft can take off NOT how far they can fly.

    The shipyards already have a useful function, repairing capital ships which is historically realistic and the airfields allowing for a scramble ability is fine. Those do not break the game with fantasy movement.

    Ukraine is a second world country with modern jet aircraft not WWII Germany or Japan. The aircraft they have was not designed for combat airfields like WWII aircraft. WWII airframes were built far different than modern aircraft outside of modern aircraft like the A10.


  • @poptech said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:

    the most unrealistic thing

    It’s a game. With little plastic pieces. That uses dice to simulate combat.


  • @govz said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:

    @poptech said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:

    the most unrealistic thing

    It’s a game. With little plastic pieces. That uses dice to simulate combat.

    In that case can we add UFOs?


  • @poptech Everything about this game is unrealistic nonsense, but it is fun and plays well. Air bases and naval bases both help balance the game (without them the allies would be at even more of a disadvantage) and add to the complexity of the game. You don’t have to like it and can play without if you wish. There are other games that prioritize realism, and you can always try one of those if ‘realism’ is something that you want in a board game.


  • @poptech

    Sure you can. Just put more barrels in the plane (for refuelling at a smaller airfield). And there are more barrels of oil at more developed airfields to make that happen.


  • @imperious-leader

    Facts right there.

  • 2024 2023 '22

    @poptech

    Straw man fallacy!


  • @farmboy

    Exactly. I even sent the guy some games that are more realistic.

  • 2024 2023 '22

    @poptech

    Sure. Of course they can refuel in normal fields.

    But there are significant benefits for having an airfield, which is why the countries built one in the first place.

    Honestly even removing the bonus movement still keeps it unrealistic. If you think one plane moving is the equivalent of one flight, then it doesn’t make sense for strategic bombers to fly from Perth to Kenya in one turn. Even the B-29 is off by 500 kilometres (using ferry range), to say nothing of lesser planes. The Indian Ocean is bigger than what the game simulates.


  • @poptech

    Exactly. More often. And since as I said, a turn is 6 months, a plane can fly several times. Enough extra flights and stops and you’ll have moved the equivalent of an extra one territory/sea zone.


  • @poptech said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:

    In that case can we add UFOs?

    Would they get a bonus movement from an airbase?

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