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Nawlins/Katrina + 1 yr. : What did we learn for NEXT TIME?



  • @balungaloaf:

    Thats a ridiculous comparison, they work there, and its not a hazard all the time.  It was just attacked again, how did anyone know for certain it would be.  for certain, new orleans will have more problems with water.

    People work in NO, and it’s obviously not a hazard to live there…otherwise no one would.
    Surely New York will have more problems with terrorists, which we won’t know, just like the next Cat 5 Hurricane to hit NO.

    @Jennifer:

    WTC had less people die then the average deaths in the Civil War.  Should we prepare for civil war casualties again???

    Of course not.  We have to look at the real world, not fictional scenarios.  We know that New Orleans WILL be hit by a hurricane in the future.  We KNOW that it will cost billions in damage and hundreds of lives again.  So we do one of two things:

    1)  We tell the people they are on their own if they are hit again.  Don’t come crying to the government EXPECTING a hand out. (they might still get one, but we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it.)

    or

    2)  We tell them it is illegal to move there.  Turn it into camp ground and force them to move above sea level.

    What is your comparison supposed to mean?
    Terrorist attacks aren’t fictional scenarios.  They’ve happened, and they will happen.  They’ve happened multiple times in NYC, in the same building, no less.  Why doesn’t it meet your argument?
    You’d better make a law before telling people it’s illegal to move there.  By the way, are you against people paying taxes towards the gov’t in NO because they are also located in the doomed delta?


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Jerm,

    Calm down.  I’m not flogging babies in the street.

    Yes, as I said, we’d pass a LAW to make it illegal to live in the basin in New Orleans.  Hence the term, it would be illegal to live there.  We could make it a national park, wouldn’t that be grand?  Meanwhile, the people too stupid to figure out they’re living in the bottom of a cereal bowl, would be forced to live in safer (at least from nature) areas.  Win/Win/Win (sicne the eco-freaks would get another park!)

    It’s not like we’re talking about moving the city.  We’re talking about not rebuilding it in the flood plains, but rather up on the hills.  How many times you gunna build that sand castle at the edge of the water during low tide and expect it to be standing the next day???

    Common, you gotta use common sense.  Stop building strawmen, take a look at what’s really being said, not what you perceive is being said, run it through the machine of your brain and then see if you have a valid arguement against it.

    I mean really, would you prefer letting them build the city where we know, beyond a doubt, that it will get flooded out again?  I mean, I view the average person as a compassionate individual willing to help out his or her fellow man, I never said I thought they were intelligent or had common sense! (if they had either, there would be no governments!)



  • @Jennifer:

    Jerm,

    Calm down.  I’m not flogging babies in the street.

    Don’t worry, I’m not riled up.  I’m enjoying this.  😄  Plus we are working on our debating skills.

    Now, maybe I went too far on a tangent, but my point is: how does one decide an area is unfit to live in, and on what basis?  If you think NO should not be populated because of its elevation, then why not other areas of the US?  I just don’t agree that they are complete idiots for where the chose to live, and, subsequently, don’t deserve any help.



  • Living ON THE COAST below sea level is a rather unique situation.

    When yiu have to go uphill to surf, that is a pretty good clue that you are not in the most safe place from flooding.

    And yes, that goes for the Netherlands too.

    People think that Bagladesh is “asking for it” with all their flood deaths, yet they are at least a few feet ABOVE sea level, unlike NO.



  • The problem with getting flood insurance Jen is many. Insurance companies will argue and say it was a hurricane, not a flood. And if you require flood insurance for anybody living below sea level, then insurances would be able to charge more because they know you have no other choice. The government should not support a city like New Orleans by building levies and accepting their tax money, and then when the city becomes flooded you watch them die for a week for two. The government cant take taxes from people and not help them when they are in extreme danger, epically in such mass numbers.


  • 2007 AAR League

    it took 72 hours after the breech of the levees for the National gaurd to get there in mass.  After the storm came many people thought the city dodged a bullet. At the last moments the levees collapsed, water was coming in quickly in the first days.  What do you do, send in troops and other people and resources while the water is rising, so they can get stuck in the city also.  You had to wait a while, for logistics and so you dont have to take extra time saving the men who are supposed to be saving others.  Also there were so many reports of looting, gang activity and other terrible crimes going on, you had an all white heirarchy that did not want to go in there and get swamped by largely african amercian crowds and have to try and fend them off.  They would look terrible trying to do what they had to do, they knew the liberal media would have a hey day on such an occurance.  It would look terrible for america as a whole if you sent in some troops and trucks to the dome and they were over run by thousands of people looking for help at once.  Then what do you do, let all your equipment and resources immdediately be pillaged?  They would then fight each other for the foodstuffs and medical supplies.  Chaos.  Or do you order troops to fight back, white troops on black crowds, let me tell you that’s the last thing the powers to be wanted and they were terrified of it.  Just remember, its all bush’s fault, thats all that is said now and all you need to know i guess.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @Jermofoot:

    Now, maybe I went too far on a tangent, but my point is: how does one decide an area is unfit to live in, and on what basis?  If you think NO should not be populated because of its elevation, then why not other areas of the US?  I just don’t agree that they are complete idiots for where the chose to live, and, subsequently, don’t deserve any help.

    Well, and I’m speaking personally here, I would start with the number of deaths per square foot, amount of damage per square foot and the likelyhood of the situation happening again and again and again.

    In the case of the Mississippi River and New Orleans (and similar) these are recurring natural phenomenon.  We know it’ll happen again sometime.  So how many lives are we willing to sacrifice so we can have a city below sea level?  Why not just save all future lives and put them up on the hill this time?

    As for insurance, yes, well they will raise their rates in that area.  Insurance companies are not the government, they are for profit organizations.  They realize, even if the populace doesnt, that living in an area prone to flooding is a bad investment.  So to offset the risk, they’ll charge you a premium.  That way, when they pay out, they’ll still have shown a profit.

    You want lower insurance rates?  Move to higher ground, stupid!  hehe.



  • completely will completly disagree. I think the media had a heyday with people getting rapped at the dome and dieing there. With your reasoning they should never have gone into New Orleans to stop the riots and crime because the government would look racist. It should not be a racist mind set in the government from the start when a major city is a disaster zone. You certainly have to put some of the fault on Bush, but every level of government failed. Without government at any level, the city tore itself apart. I hope they did not have Balung’s mindset of let the blacks fight it out. What about those elderly homes that were left with no one to care for them? How about the fact that shelters would NOT take pets so people stayed at home because they could not leave their pets behind. It was a horrible scene. I hope we learned something from it, but America will forget about it in 5-10 years, until another hurricane hits sometime.



  • The whole pets thing and evacuations has always bothered me.

    Back when I had the 8 acre farm an hour inland from Myrtle beach, it was common knowledge in the Pagan Community in the region that in the event of a hurricane my home and land was open to people AND their pets.  A safe haven for the ENTIRE family, not just the humans.

    One of the main reasons this is an issue though is the lack of planning on the part of people in potential disaster areas.  If you have pets and you live in the hurricane zone, you have a pre-existing plan on where to go long before the storm hits… and you plan on a place that will take you and your 4-legged family members.

    But that goes back to personal responsibility and taking care of yourself.  Too many folks effected by Katrina expected to be cared for.  And that (other than living in a coastal city below sea level) was the genesis of the problems that followed…


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    The whole pets thing and evacuations has always bothered me.

    Back when I had the 8 acre farm an hour inland from Myrtle beach, it was common knowledge in the Pagan Community in the region that in the event of a hurricane my home and land was open to people AND their pets.  A safe haven for the ENTIRE family, not just the humans.

    One of the main reasons this is an issue though is the lack of planning on the part of people in potential disaster areas.  If you have pets and you live in the hurricane zone, you have a pre-existing plan on where to go long before the storm hits… and you plan on a place that will take you and your 4-legged family members.

    But that goes back to personal responsibility and taking care of yourself.  Too many folks effected by Katrina expected to be cared for.  And that (other than living in a coastal city below sea level) was the genesis of the problems that followed…

    100% Agree.

    In times of trouble people should, and usually do, pull together for the common good of all.  After trouble hits you find opportunists, yes.  And that is when the government (local level, maybe regional level) should step in to arrest the perpetrators.

    I know if my town got hit by a few tornados and many homes were destroyed anyone left would open the doors so that others can at least sleep with a roof over their heads for a while.  I’m sure that’s the case the whole world over.



  • @ncscswitch:

    The whole pets thing and evacuations has always bothered me.

    Planning ahead…
    Imagine the difficulties of having separate shelters for these groups in order to be culturally sensative…

    1. Pets Welcome Zones(PWZ),
    2. No Pets Zones(NPZ),
    3. Kosher Zones(KZ),
    4. Shaker, Amish, Quaker Zones(SAQZ) or Non-Tech Zones(NTZ),
    5. Muslim Zones(MZ - No women driving or showing more than eyes looking at the ground),
      6)) No Smoking Zones(NSZ),
    6. Nudists Zones(NZ),
      8 ) Jehovah’s Witnesses Zones(JWZ),
    7. Mayor Nagin’s Chocolate Zones(CZ),
    8. Green Organic Vegan Zones(GOVZ - Environmentally friendly vehicles, Organic Vegan foods),
    9. No Dairy or Nuts Zone(NDNZ),
    10. Chosen People Zone (CPZ - Reserved for members of any religion who think they are the only ones getting into heaven.  Let them pray for their gods’ help cuz they ain’t gettin’ any of ours… 😄
      and many more…

    @ncscswitch:

    Back when I had the 8 acre farm an hour inland from Myrtle beach, it was common knowledge in the Pagan Community in the region that in the event of a hurricane my home and land was open to people AND their pets.  A safe haven for the ENTIRE family, not just the humans.

    Were Jews, Christians, Muslims, Ba’hai, Covens, JWs, etc. welcome, too??  🙂



  • By planning I did NOT mean Government planning.  I meant PERSONAL planning.  YOU plan in advance where you are going to go and how to get there.

    Remember, I am a Libertarian which means PERSONAL responsibility.

    As for others being welcome… Yes, they would have been.  But the information was only distributed via Pagan outlets.It is not like I could have put the entire Carolina Coast up in my house.

    Of course it is no longer an issue as I sold the Farm 2 years ago.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    BTW, anyone find out what happened to the billions in tax revenue gathered over the years to rebuild the dykes that were never rebuilt?  Oh yea, they built casinos and bought new busses…guess those busses did a lot of good, flooded as they were…and those Casinos probably sheltered a few people!

    This is why people need to be responsible forthemselves, and stop looking to the govenment for a hand out.  Governments are money grubbing evil organizations that should be kept in check by rifle point as often as necessary so they don’t inflict themselves on the populace.  NO was just another case that supports that statement.  The state and feds failed them but worse, the city who had been taxing them in excess to fix the problems that the Army Corps of Engineers cited failed them to the extreme!

    The mayor and govenor should be run out of the state on a rail, if not put in jail for the rest of their lives for not taking adequate measures to ensure that the massive loss of life in New Orleans and the billions of dollars in destruction never came around.  It’s negligent homicide at least, if not outright, premeditated murder by ommission of acting.  They had the funds, they had the warning, they did nothing.

    But they’re democrats, so they’ll be fine!



  • @Jennifer:

    The mayor and govenor should be run out of the state on a rail, if not put in jail for the rest of their lives for not taking adequate measures to ensure that the massive loss of life in New Orleans and the billions of dollars in destruction never came around.  It’s negligent homicide at least, if not outright, premeditated murder by ommission of acting.  They had the funds, they had the warning, they did nothing.

    a
    Make up your mind.  Is it the people who live there or the gubbament’s fault?


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    It’s partially the government’s fault when they are told to fix something, they raise taxes to do it, then squander the taxes.  They told the people they were safe because the problems were being fixed and then didn’t fix them!

    If they hadn’t done that, it would be 100% the people’s responsibility.  If they go back in now, with 20/20 hindsite, no matter what it’s their fault if htey get hit again.



  • Living below sea level on the coast and thinking that the government COULD make you safe is its own problem 😛


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    Living below sea level on the coast and thinking that the government COULD make you safe is its own problem 😛

    Yea, to fix that we need to institute a voucher system so that schools have to compete for the best students (and to stay in business) and thus we might have smarter people who don’t believe the federallies are mommy and daddy.



  • @balungaloaf:

    it took 72 hours after the breech of the levees for the National gaurd to get there in mass.  After the storm came many people thought the city dodged a bullet. At the last moments the levees collapsed, water was coming in quickly in the first days.  What do you do, send in troops and other people and resources while the water is rising, so they can get stuck in the city also.  _You had to wait a while, for logistics and so you dont have to take extra time saving the men who are supposed to be saving others._  Also there were so many reports of looting, gang activity and other terrible crimes going on, you had an all white

    …Insert the word “Democrat” here…
    Wait! What ever happened to diversity ?!!
    What happened to Democrats helping minorities!?!
    @balungaloaf:

    heirarchy that did not want to go in there and get swamped by largely african amercian crowds and have to try and fend them off.  They would look terrible trying to do what they had to do, they knew the liberal media would have a hey day on such an occurance.  It would look terrible for america as a whole if you sent in some troops and trucks to the dome and they were over run by thousands of people looking for help at once.  Then what do you do, let all your equipment and resources immdediately be pillaged?  They would then fight each other for the foodstuffs and medical supplies.   Chaos.  Or do you order troops to fight back, white troops on black crowds, let me tell you that’s the last thing the powers to be wanted and they were terrified of it.  Just remember, its all bush’s fault, thats all that is said now and all you need to know i guess.

    Well said.


    LJ Question : Why’d nobody think to hotwire the busses and get their 455e5 outa there??


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    El Jefe:

    Please tell me you are not still duped into believing that the Democrats want to “help” minorities.  They have no intention of “helping” them, but they’re more then willing to “help themselves” to their money and their sufferage.

    Perhaps it is now that the minorities are realizing that, even though Republicans don’t go out of their way to HELP them, at least they don’t go out of their way to keep them impoverished in poor schools and then pit them against Whites so that whites have to defend themselves against black violence which instigates the creation of gangs which raise the crime rate in black neighborhoods and thus help to keep them down and voting democrat.    Perhaps that is why there was almost a 30% shift in the black vote from democrat to republican last election?

    It’ll be fun to see the demographics for this election.  In 2004 98% of America’s land mass voted Republican.  What do you think it will be in 2006?


  • 2007 AAR League

    98% of land mass? I’m not following you.  But i do agree democrats purposely keep blacks on welfare and warp them with their liberal culture of black rappers/gangsters.  Thats liberal culture doing that for a reason.  Name role models for black youth.  Athletes and rappers.  1% of black people will be one of those, the rest dont believe in anything because the liberal democrat culture has taught them that.  Bill CLINTON had 8 years to help out democrats most loved voting tools.  He didnt do anything but increase the war on drugs to keep blacks in jails.  Democrats use blacks.  Not help them.  when has the NAACP ever done anything to help black people but show up at POSH dinners put on by dems.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Bung:

    Look for a county by county red/blue map of the United States for the 2004 election.  Only the biggest cities are blue, the rest of the nation is red.  That means, over 98% of the land mass of this country voted for Bush, only the minority of land owners voted for Kerry.  Not that it matters, it was a landslide win for Bush.  But it’s interesting to see all the poor farmers voting for one guy while all the rich millionaires and billionaires that own the city lands voting for the other guy.



  • I hav eseen that map.

    I have also seen teh one that used bleding of red and blue to represent the strength of teh Bush vote.

    Amazing thing is, the entire nation is almost uniformly purple on that map…


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    I have not seen that one.  I have seen the seperation by county and the seperation by state. (I think the state’s the least accurate.)

    The bleeding one’s probably the most accurate, as long as they bled it based on percentages, not just 50/50 when it wasn’t 80% or more for one side or the other.




  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    That’s kinda neat, but I don’t think it’s very accurate.  For instance, Illinois is purple…now I know I am the ONLY republican in the entire state of Illinois, so how do I personally change the entire state to purple???

    *that was a joke, in case you missed it.


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