Containment strategy



  • Where everybody forcusses on either japan or germany would it be a viable strat to split your forces between them in an act of containment. Germany can be contained pretty easy with a bit of UK and US help where japan can also be contained pretty stable with UK help and US comming from the sea.
    The idea is to make the game take longer thus utelizing your extra income.

    Im thinking of containing japan at india/sinkian/novo and germany around WRUssia/karrelia and afrika.

    Would such a strat be viable.

    BTW keep in mind i normaly play with 8VC’s 😄



  • afcorse these strategy is possible
    and if you play on 8 VC it is neceserally
    because if you leave one nation and attack only the other the first nation will take 2 victory cities at no time


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yes, you can.  Japan is by far the easiest to contain.  They have a long march across the continent to juicy targets.

    Germany/Russia can be contained without too much trouble.



  • It is what I call a SJF strat, Slow Japan First.

    Needs 1 Russian ARM, a US IC in Sinkiang, and the UK FIG to land in China on UK1.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Actually needs 2 Russian arm, French indo china must be cleared from Inf (and a + if fig survive), IC in India, IC in Sinkiang, and of course kill Kwang trn.



  • With 2 ARM and 2 IC, you can reverse Japan progress.  With 1 ARM and 1 IC, you can keep them bottled up for quite a while.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Yes but i tend to favor Strong India presence, it has a tendancy to make japan a sidelined figure in the games.

    And i have been succesfull with that strategy vs TriplA players on that ladder.

    And i allso have a very good game going where i as axis put a sub into play as my bid and the allied player failed to take norway.

    and matters got worse for him since he built a India IC but didn´t strike French indo china, so India fell on J1.

    (but i didn´t do pearl harbor, so i´ll have to build some AF to keep em away from my islands…)


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Why not a Russian fighter instead of armor?  You can slow them just as easily and later you can pull it back to the front lines twice as fast.



  • You dont want to drive them back just keep them at the coast. Dont let them abuse the Battleship bombardment untill you can force him to stay put.



  • Japan is far harder to contain than Germany.

    If the ocean is not controlled by the Allies, Japan can dump huge numbers of infantry and tanks anywhere along the coast.

    There are no AA guns on the Pacific rim for the Allies to discourage Japanese hit and runs.  (There is one in India, but an Indian containment strategy should see the USSR north front collapse.

    Japan will typically run a huge number of tanks in.  Tanks can switch from attacking India to Ssinkiang to Soviet Far East in a matter of moments.

    It comes down to the US controlling the sea.  In that case, it’s a matter of killing the Jap fleet and letting the US grab islands.



  • Actually no, it comes down to control of Sinkiang (and thereby control of Novo).

    If the Allies are able to stage a block in Sinkiang (and it can be done pretty easilly), and TRADE China with Japan, that will chew up the first several rounds of Japan forces, until they have multiple mainland IC’s AND their TRN network in place.

    Trade for China for a few rounds, then make Japan mass to take Sinkiang, then fall back to Novo and make them stage against to take that.

    You can get a good 7-8 round delay with almost no forces drawn from Russia, and very little US expediture.  You might even throw in some UK FIGs in the round or two before Japan might finally breach Sinkiang in order to slow them ANOTHER turn or 2…



  • That sounds pretty hot, ncsswitch, but I’m afraid that if I were the Japan player, I would just refuse to play ball.  You mention trading China with Japan.  I wouldn’t trade.  I would just sit on Ssinkiang with one or two infantry, or even abandon it if the USSR player didn’t have a tank in China.

    China and Ssinkiang are dead territories for USSR.  That is to say, say the USSR takes Ssinkiang from Japan.  USSR will gain no income from that captured territory, and on Japan’s turn, Japan can recapture Ssinkiang and gain the IPCs for it.

    The problem with trying to force Japan to mass in Ssinkiang is the fact that tanks have a movement of two and infantry a movement of one.  If the Japan player knows what he/she’s about, you’re gonna see a fat mass of tanks in Kwangtung.  From there, tanks can smash China OR India.  Or they can just head north.  Wherever the Allies are massed is where the tanks either head to, or avoid - if it’s a weak mass, the tanks move to smash it, if it’s a strong mass, the tanks just avoid it.

    If a strong mass expands to the coast, good.  That’s closer to Japanese transports, and further from Moscow.  If a strong mass moves to defend, that’s still fine.  There is NO WAY that China, India, and the Soviet Far East can be defended while the US still maintains high pressure in the Pacific and Germany is contained.  Something has to break somewhere.



  • Paint,

    It isn’t just Russian INF in Sinkiang.  They just provide the “bulk” units (the 10 INF that started in Bury, SFE, Yakut, Novo, and Evenk) and 1 ARM.  The real threat (and problem for Japan) comes from the American IC that is built there on US1, and starts building ARM and FIG.

    Japan can;t ignore that threat, or go thin in China.  They HAVE to retake it, every round, or USA and USSR does a 2-step right through it and can raid Japan core territories.

    If Japan goes thin in China, US can wipe out those forces.  Then Russia flows into China en masse.  Now Japan has a force of 10 INF, 1 ARM, plus any US forces that survived the China fight.  That is enough to destroy the newly built units in any IC along the coast.  And is enough that Japan would ahve to bring their entire available force to bear in order to take it back.

    Even if they do not 2-step throuhg, now Japan has that massed force in China.  And if they do not take it out, it gets reinforced with Allied FIGs the next round.

    Now Japan HAS to be on the defensive in coastal Asia, holding back build forces instead of advancing them, and using TRNs to land in Manch, Kwang, and FIC to defend those territories.

    That in itself is a MASSIVE amount of pressure off Russia, and allows them to focus almost exclusively on Germany for quite some time…



  • So you have a fat stack of infantry in the East?  That means that Germany MUST be FAR stronger in the west.  And all those Allied fighters, too.  So Germany probably controls Africa (if the Allies didn’t spend a fair number of IPCs there, that’s what will happen).  Germany is going to be smashing through Russia.  (By the time Allied fighters reach China, it is going to be third or fourth turn, and Germany’s first turn infantry buy will be in the Caucasus.)

    My attitude towards the Allies attacking French Indochina, Manchuria, and Kwangtung - LET them.  I would be SO pleased.  Considering that in a game in which the US does not have a mighty Pacific fleet, I run five to six transports, by all means, let them come where I can drop six plus infantry, two plus artillery, and move my Asian tanks in.  The Allies just solved Japan’s logistic problem of getting to the front.  Also, I probably just lost six infantry for ten infantry and odd tanks, considering my overwhelming numerical superiority.

    “If Japan goes thin in China, US can wipe out those forces.  Then Russia flows into China en masse.  Now Japan has a force of 10 INF, 1 ARM, plus any US forces that survived the China fight.  That is enough to destroy the newly built units in any IC along the coast.  And is enough that Japan would ahve to bring their entire available force to bear in order to take it back.”

    Not quite.  Japan can see a punch coming from a mile away.  It is very easy to reinforce the IC with the Japan transports.  Assuming there IS an IC, the IC produces too.  Plus there’s Japan’s mainland forces.  10 inf 1 arm?  They have to punch through at least 5 inf 4 tanks plus probable fighters.  Not going to happen.  Also, it is incredibly unlikely that any US forces will survive the China fight.

    I’m not saying that the Allies cannot make a strong defense in Ssinkiang.  They CAN.  They can make a GREAT defense in Ssinkiang.  But doing so bleeds the Allies out.  Now one of two things is going to be true.  EITHER the US will have a moderately sized Pacific fleet that will force Japan to be more defensive, BUT then Germany will be going absolutely crazy with African IPCs and very possibly a London attack.  OR Germany will be somewhat contained, but there will be no Pacific fleet, and Japan can smash or work around the Ssinkiang defense.

    I seriously don’t see how the Allies can control Africa, contain Germany, defend Ssinkiang in force, AND have a Pacific fleet.



  • Japan initially does not ahve the economy to protect 3 territories from a 2-stage strike.  The numbers just are not there.

    Also, the ONLY thing that Russia pulls from the German front is 1 ARM.  Everything else starts in the East already… it is now just consolidated into 1 mass instead of being split into Yakut and Sinkiang.

    As for FIGs reaching Sinkiang…
    UK FIGs can arrive in UK2 (before Japan can even think of attacking Sinkiang).  US FIGs and ARM will be built on-site.



  • I don’t think Japan does have to protect THREE territories, just one.  Let the Allies claim the other two.  Build up in one territory in enough force to smash Ssinkiang if the Allies stay there.  The Allies themselves cannot protect those three territories in turn.

    As for the rest of your points, yeah!  I agree!  But my point still applies, I think, which is that those forces are not going to be usable against Germany.  China and Ssinkiang are just too far away from the action.  If fighters from even China (which is closer to the German front) attack, they cannot fly back to China unless they are expensive bombers, or are long-range.

    The Allies fall into the three-country defense problem.  The combined DEFENSE is good enough to hold a country, but because there are units from three different countries, the Allies have difficulty mounting an ATTACK.  US will sustain horrible and expensive casualties against Japanese masses before any USSR / UK force can reinforce the position.  If the USSR attacks, it will sustain high casaulties because of the weak attack power, then Japan can retake before the US can reinforce.

    You understand that I’m not saying the Allies can’t make a strong center at China/Ssinkiang.  What I’m saying is that it is very costly; the Allies have to race against eight ground units from Japan a turn, plus possibly two or three from an IC on the Asian mainland.



  • If Japan clusters in only ONE of htose 3 territories, they are down 6 IPC’s, 20% of their starting income.

    That in itself is enough to contain Japan for several extra turns.

    Which is the whole point of this… not to KJF, but to SJF.  Have Japan massing to break through the Allied line in Sinkiang on J6, instead of with massed forces in Novo on J6.

    You keep Japan economically reduced, and keep Russia economically boosted.  That is sound strategic planning on the Allies part.



  • I don’t think Japan does have to protect THREE territories, just one.  Let the Allies claim the other two.  Build up in one territory in enough force to smash Ssinkiang if the Allies stay there.  The Allies themselves cannot protect those three territories in turn.

    Giving the Allies any more money just stinks in my experience, especially if you give Russia 3 more IPCs. It’s gonna be used against Germany real fast while Japan is busy merely reclaiming territory on the next turn.



  • Exactly Tri.

    You do NOT want to give Russia an extra 3-6 IPC’s per turn on top of whatever they are trading for in Europe (you could have a Russia that is economically stronger than Germany quite easilly that way…)


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