• Given the recent God vs science debate, I wonder if anyone else watched “The exodus decoded” last night on the History channel.

    Facinating, scientific proof that the Biblical Exodus occurred.

    http://theexodusdecoded.com/mb_view.jsp?BID=10&MTID=1032

    If you are interested in finding out if God does exist, and need scientific proof, you should watch this program with an open mind.

    I’m sure it will repeat. Here’s some website links

    http://theexodusdecoded.com/mb_view.jsp?BID=10&MTID=1032

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_Decoded

    Squirecam


  • If they found out that there is a god, then wouldnt that mean that a lot of religions are wrong and non-pagans won the game!

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    They didn’t prove there is a God.  They proved that the Exodus happened as it was written in the Bible.  They just showed how all the plagues, where the people went, what happened did happen in the year 1500-ish BC (or BCE for the heathens).

    They also speculated as the the shape of the arc.  But they did find the location of the actual Mt. Sinai, the Reed Sea, explained how and why the plagues happened when and where they did (including how only 1st born male children would have died) based on similar happenings in Cameroon.

    Real interesting 2 hours.  It was nice to see someone who obviously wasn’t trying to proove there is or there is not a God do something like this.  Basically what I want for the schools regarding creation/evolution.  Just give us the hard, incontroversable facts and let us decide.

    Basically, some might say this happened by chance and the Israelites took advantage of the situation and gave it their own spin for their book.  Others will say God used nature, as he seems to do quite often in the Tora/Old Testament, and manipulated it into what He wanted for His people.

    The one thing you cannot say is that it did not happen. It’s all fiction.  More and more Bible stories about historic events are being proven true.

    Jesus really existed.
    Solomon really existed.
    David really existed.
    Moses really existed.
    Jacob really existed.
    The Great Flood really happened (at least to some degree)
    The Plagues really happened
    The waters really have paths laid in them (currents)
    The sun really has a fixed place in the sky

    Our ancient ancestors (and if we’ve been here as long as science claims, then we all have at least some part Israeli in us at this point, even the muslims!) were not as stupid and as propagandist as we have been led to believe.

  • 2007 AAR League

    I loved the history channel until 3 years ago, then it became to liberal with a new person in charge somewhere in there.  Why did a good thing have to change  😢

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    All things change, Bungal.  And yes, the Hostory channel does seem to spin the facts (by leaving some untold and making erronious inferences) in some of their shows.  I don’t know if it is intentional or if it is just coincidental. (Did they make a new mission statement saying they are going to mislead the world, or did they only get ameture historians that don’t know hwo to do research making shows for a while?)


  • Trying to prove the events in the bible are true is like trying to prove King Arthur & his Round Table existed verbatim as it is listed in Le Morte D’Artur.  It doesn’t even matter.

    More to the point: I believe that some events occurred which inspired many of the writings in the bible.  But I wouldn’t take them at face value due to translation, misinterpretation, etc.  Also, things have changed.  Do you think it’s advisable to put people to death that work on the Sabbath?

    I think it’s great that science has reached the point that they can give more details on something with vague evidence.  Wonderful - but do you think that was what the bible was printed for?  It’s less a map of ancient civilization, and more a map of existence (albeit some nutjob ideas that should left to antiquity).  To try and find the actual events is entirely missing the message.

    @Jennifer:

    Our ancient ancestors (and if we’ve been here as long as science claims, then we all have at least some part Israeli in us at this point, even the muslims!) were not as stupid and as propagandist as we have been led to believe.

    Mmm…not quite.  Plenty of people were scattered around the world before the Israelis existed.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Jerm:

    The problem is the Bible has long been considered a viable source of information for history.  Much of the history in the bible has been documented with outside sources for corroberation.  (most memorable are the ones I listed above.)  It’s been so corroborated by egyptian history, european and russian histories, asian histories that those parts not corroborrated are taken as historical fact.

    That’s not to say they believe it to the smallest detail.  But they realize that natural phenomenon could have played a roll and actually take things like the water turned to blood as truths.  Okay, maybe it was iron oxide due to chemical reactions from a volcanic eruption.  Maybe the water drained because it receeded to make a tidal wave that flooded out the Egyptians in persuit.  Maybe an earthquake hit just at the time the Israelites were marching around Jerico, etc.  But they no longer doubt things like the fall of Jerico, the exodus, Israelite slavery, etc.


  • My major problem with any religious text is there is bound to be some biased to it.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yes there is.  And I don’t think archeologists and historians necessarily think that God wrote the ten commandments on tablets with his finger.  But they do agree on many MAJOR points in the historical actions in the Bible, so much so that they actually start using it as a starting point on their research.


  • Major caveat needed for that last post…

    SOME actually start using it as a starting point on their research


  • They didn’t prove there is a God.  They proved that the Exodus happened as it was written in the Bible.  They just showed how all the plagues, where the people went, what happened did happen in the year 1500-ish BC (or BCE for the heathens).

    That’s right.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    Major caveat needed for that last post…

    SOME actually start using it as a starting point on their research

    Yea, some do.  Of course, much of it has been corroborrated by archeological finds in other parts of the world at this point.

    As the host said:  In 2000 years if the historians insist WWII occurred in 1989-1995 they would be hard pressed to find any supporting evidence.  And they’d only be off by 50 years!


  • @CrazyHomer87:

    My major problem with any religious text is there is bound to be some biased to it.

    As opposed to atheist texts such as the “fair and balanced” Communist Manifesto?  :roll:

    I don’t think religious texts are any more baised than other texts.  There is a stunning amount of bias in publications like Newsweek and the New York Times, but that’s not because they are religious.

    The primary difference is that many core religious texts have persisted for centuries and are subjected to greater scrutiny.  Sources like the Bible have often been found to be more accurate than contemporary historical texts, but because we don’t debate other texts like Josephus and Pliny we lack a sense of context for the accuracy of documentation.  If Herodotus had established a franchise that resulted in a billion adherents and exerted a major impact on contemporary culture, we would be well aware of his apparent short-comings much like some folks decry the short-comings of religious texts.

    Peace


  • @trihero:

    They didn’t prove there is a God.  They proved that the Exodus happened as it was written in the Bible.  They just showed how all the plagues, where the people went, what happened did happen in the year 1500-ish BC (or BCE for the heathens).Â

    That’s right.

    I wonder what University Moses got his Geology degree from. Was it Harvard or Yale?

    Because, if you now agree/admit/etc that the Exodus happened, then Moses must have been very very very smart, and known things which were not discovered by us until centuries later, or God exists:

    1 - Moses would have had to have known of the Volcanic eruption at Santorini (highly unlikely if he was in egypt) and known it would cause a “red river”, frog infestations, etc.

    2 - Would have known that carbon monoxide would kill those sleeping on the ground at that precide time and date, and thus invented the “passover meal” as cover so jews would not be victims.

    Since Moses was no geolgist, could not forsee the future, and could not possible have been aware of carbon monoxide (or the scientific basis for turning a river red, the volcanic hail, boils), and could not possibly have known ahead of time about this volcanic eruption and its effects, then Moses must have had some “help”. That help could only have come from……God.

    Squirecam


  • Just watched the program. Interesting, but I didn’t buy a lot of it.

    1. - It assumed that a massive geological event would cause C02 to rise up in the Nile River, causing it to turn red, causing thousands of frogs to hop out of the river, causing lice, flies, and disease to exit the river, etc until the first born (who sleep in the “royal” lowlieing part of the house) all die of poisonous gas. Its one piece of conjecture after another. If one fails, everything else falls down.

    2. - Massive uneducated (demonstrated by one of the museum staffers questioning the host’s deductions) guessing after looking at some of the Minoan inscriptions. What the host saw as a picture of Moses in front of the parted sea the expert in the museum saw as a chariot race (similar to the one depicted in the Aeneid). Same with much of the conjecture about the location of Mt. Sinai. His reference to Homer is complete B.S., as the host used a generic term for Greeks (Dannub or Dannuins) and applied it to one specific Greek city, even though the full word wasn’t present, just a presumably early form of the word.

    3. We saw little evidence of “hundreds of thousands” of Israelite slaves present in egypt. We saw little evidence of Moses himself existing. We saw some limited evidence of a group of former slaves who left Egypt and settled in Avarice and with the Minoans. Most of the B.S. about Minoans and Egyptian contact was completely irrelevent. The Minoans were a great trade civilization, which has nothing to do with the Israelites.

    Seemed like more Da Vinci Code investigation to me.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yanny:

    Let’s be honest here, the volcanic eruption is documented and there are Egyptian texts describing the exodus of the jews.  Though, no where does anyone say how many left.


  • Yes, a volcanic eruption is documented at a certain time in history. It’s not like Egypt isn’t right next to a major fault line. One such eruption happens to coincide with the rough time period where we guess that the legendary exodus took place.

    In terms of that time period - it’s a guess. It may very well be right, but its an educated guess. The show makes the mistake of using words like “fact” and “proof” for conjecture.

  • 2007 AAR League

    Dont believe that program.  For many years now the isrealies have been trying to prove that they alone should be allowed to live in isreal by digging up artifacts and when they find them they dont let anyone who isnt jewish check them out.  They find something say its real and then have a jewish archeologist from usa or france or someone check it out and say yep thats real, while no-one else gets to test it. What crap.  History channel was taken over 3 years ago by a person who hated all the cool military shows and was spitefull of christianity while seeming to love judaism. (liberal?)  Every report or new show is so so biased. (Anyone watch the crusader special a while ago)  Ever since 96 in 6th grade i loved the history channel but now it makes me want to vomit.  Dont get me wrong there is still stuff i like on the channel but wow how its changed. Someone figured out that hey the history channel is unbiased and has shows that inform people.  Lets take it over and put in biased stuff that will inform people what we want them to think.  Just another outlet for liberal brain-washing that goes under the radar.  Liberalism is everywhere now, you have to actively SEARCH for conservative views, funny cause liberals still cant win elections.  Oh and by the way i wouldnt be surprised if that exodus program was half bullshiiiiite.  Even when they say irrefutalbe or its a fact dont immediatley believe what they say.  The way they prove things can always be half truths so you cant stick them with lying.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Yanny:

    Yes, a volcanic eruption is documented at a certain time in history. It’s not like Egypt isn’t right next to a major fault line. One such eruption happens to coincide with the rough time period where we guess that the legendary exodus took place.

    In terms of that time period - it’s a guess. It may very well be right, but its an educated guess. The show makes the mistake of using words like “fact” and “proof” for conjecture.

    Yea, they are guessing that the eruption happened because most historians agree one did at about that time, given other archeological evidence.  If they did the exodus - which is documented in both Egyptian, Minoan and Jewish histories - and assuming the plagues happened in the order and severity documented in the Bible, then the only logical conclusion is that they happened at 1500 BC when the volcano went.

    I fail to see how that’s any more biased then, say, evolution!  You take a few facts and extrapolate the rest.  So did Cameron.

    And Bungaloaf, the muslims have been trying to disprove the fact that Israel existed in that region.  That’s why they won’t let anyone dig for judio/christian artifacts in the area.  After all, any proof that the Jews might have actually lived there, as the entire world knows they DID, lends claims to their right to exist as a nation, and Muslims cannot handle that…they’ve been on record (their military/political leaders) stating they want to kill all the Jews of the world.

    When I see the leader of Lebanon kiss the Isralite leader on the lips in public, I’ll believe they are actually looking for a peaceful situation to the multiple situations they ahve over there.  As they say:  “your actions speak so loudly, I cannot hear a word you say.”

  • 2007 AAR League

    thats a liberal jew ploy that you eat right up.  I saw them say that on the damn documentary in the 15 minutes that i wathced it.  The muslims know the jews lived there, everyone does.  The liberal jew will tell you that the muslims want to deny the fact that jews lived there.  Preposterous right. But they say that even though the muslims do know that the jews were there.  The muslims are really afriad of what i talked about earlier, jewish archeologists who either forge something (you have to remember 3 years ago when the archeologists in isreal "found a tablet that said james brother of jesus.  the liberal press was all over it saying this could be proof of jesus having a family. The vatican went nuts and said they wanted to see it but were denied.  This lasted for a while with the jewish archeologists saying it was fact until it was tested by a non jewish expert who claimed it to be a very very good forgery.)      so they might forge something or put a find out of context, say its a fact, and burn the muslims as anti-semites if they try to deny it or even better get mad about it.  Thats the muslims real fear.  If a archeologist “finds” something and then has a friend or fellow isreali or fellow hebrew back it up as fact and try to get it into the annals of history as fact.  Then it becomes real hard to disprove because people will write off your claim as being made by a blowhard.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I fail to see how a tablet saying “brother of christ” is a controversy.  The Bible specifically states taht Jesus had brothers and sisters.    I don’t even think the powers of heaven could pull of a miracle of a straight man married to a woman in that day and age that never has sex with his wife.  That’s even harder to believe then the story we all evolved from amino acids!


  • @balungaloaf:

    Just another outlet for liberal brain-washing that goes under the radar.  Liberalism is everywhere now, you have to actively SEARCH for conservative views, funny cause liberals still cant win elections.  Oh and by the way i wouldnt be surprised if that exodus program was half bullshiiiiite.  Even when they say irrefutalbe or its a fact dont immediatley believe what they say.  The way they prove things can always be half truths so you cant stick them with lying.

    Only in America does the candidate with the LESSER number of votes become president, and a biased judicial court protect him and eliminate democracy at work. Where valid voters are prevented from voting by fraud or intimidation by “conservative” attack groups.

    Yes, when such acts occur, liberals cannot win. In fair elections though, they can.


  • @Jennifer:

    I fail to see how a tablet saying “brother of christ” is a controversy.  The Bible specifically states taht Jesus had brothers and sisters.    I don’t even think the powers of heaven could pull of a miracle of a straight man married to a woman in that day and age that never has sex with his wife.

    That goes along with the CORRECT definition of “virgin” from that time period, which unfortunatly also destroys the concept of the Immaculate Conception.  But hey, who is concerned with facts, right?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Immaculate conception just means Mary never knew a man’s touch before Jesus was conceived.  It never said she stayed a virgin for the rest of her life.

    This is my biggest problem with the Catholics.  They still view her as a virgin when the Bible specifically states on a few occassions that Jesus had brothers and sisters.  Although, it has been brought to my attention that many Catholics believe that Mary herself was “virginal” because she was free from sin when Jesus was conceived in the womb.

    However, I hold to the more traditional method and feel she was a virgin because she had never had sex with a man and I see no contradiction, even if Jesus had brothers and sisters, which he obviously did because they are mentioned in the Bible.


  • Actually, the definition of virgin from that time period is a woman who is her own person.  It came into widespread use in the last part of the first millenium BCE.

    It was not until the middle of the first millenium CE that it came to be “never having had sex”, and the Catholic Church played the leading roll in the re-defining of the word.

    You should also note that there is a specific ecclesiastical definition of virgin which means an unmarried or religious woman… and Mary certainly fits THAT definition, even if Joseph was getting all he wanted.

    Or it could just mean she was a Virgo…  :mrgreen:

Suggested Topics

I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

76
Online

15.1k
Users

36.0k
Topics

1.5m
Posts