Some advice for a CRAZY game…



  • OK, so my crew and I here at home finally wrapped up our last game, and we’re set up for R1 of a new game.

    This game though, has a twist.

    It’s standard LHTR stuff, with no bid…

    …ALL national advantages are in play…

    …and tech dice cost $1 IPC apiece instead of $5 IPC


    I control the UK and Russia…some things to consider:

    • Where do I put my free British Factory? I was thinking in Australia, then building a battleship there on B1 to protect a consolidated British Pac fleet.

    The thought here is to combine this, along with a US IC in Alaska on US2, to hem in the Japanese navy and take away his island economy. Basically KJF, but without any mainland ICs. With luck, this, combined with the Non-Agression treaty, will prevent Japan from making any significant gains.

    We’re doing it this way because Atlantic Wall combined with Fortress Europe makes Germany too tough to crack with Amphibious landings.

    • The last two times I was Russia, I had Mobile Factories, and here I go again. Each previous time the IC got moved from Cauc to Kazak. Not great, but allows flexibilty into Sinkang as well as Persia. Doing a similar move, along with the non-agression treaty, SHOULD keep Russia safe for a while. How much should I count on the treaty to delay Japanese moves against Russia?

    • If we get into a good position, we could even use Joint Strike against JAPAN…any thoughts as to where best to stage my British invasion forces?

    • Should I Enigma my FIG and ARM out of Egypt if Germany attacks it, or save the Advantage for a later attack?

    • With tech dice so cheap, which techs should I focus on first?



  • Wow that will make a nice game. Germany might be hard to crack in europe but not in afrika 😄 So take that with the US so he cant make your life hard :D. Also you can still attack him in the brown zones.

    IC in india. Get your fig to that AC there and save the tank in afrika. With radar advantage his fighters are dead against your AA in india well en mass it will be a pain. Just make india your fortress so you can attack both from land and with the fleet from the sea there.

    Send troops to russia with UK to help them defend a lone russia is no match for a all out germany. And bomb both germany and japan with the US to remove some IPC’s, Keep the IC where it is you can send troops from russia to that zone almost as fast and you keep more production. IF germany gets to close to your borders you are toast so keep them at bay.

    Hm with the mech inf from the US you can effectively send troops through north afrika to japan takes 3 turns to get there and they can also help defend russia if needed it is almost faster then sending them through the pacific.



  • In my mind, India falls if Japan wants it, no matter what I put there…

    …if I put the IC in Australia, I can have it well defended before the Japanese fleet comes knocking.

    Arguments?



  • Well it wont fall that fast that is for sure.

    Turn 1. attack
    8inf 1 arm 2 figs 1 AA  VS 2 inf 4 fig 1 bomb ( if you win this as japan you are at the wrong spot since you needed to be at the casino)
    defence 26 units 11  VS 18 attack and 7 units. Not counting the AA gun and you will be losing air for my inf first.

    Turn 2 max of 6 inf 1 amrand 6 figs 1 bomb ( if i remember correctly ) vs that same group = 11 inf 1 arm 2 figs + 1 AA and he did not attack the US or the UK fleet. This might be tricky but with the US in range to start knocking on the door with fleet. IF you buy 3 arm iso 3 inf it gets even riskier for japan.

    Turn 3 you might lose the complex but it would require the full force of japan to be focused on you for almost 3 turns and the US + UK navy at this point can become a pretty nice force to recon with.

    australia needs you to invest heavy in fleet. Germany vs russia you will lose really soon.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Well I have never played with tech rolls besides a few isolated rolls but I agree that India will fall without the Sinkiang IC so I agree Australia is good because if you want to kill his fleet and his islands then that would be a prime spot because of all the routes you can take. It would be a nice twist on how games usually work. Japan probably won’t be able to threaten Russia too much because they will have to invest heavily in navy.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Just make sure to have Wake for US and Okinawa for UK (since it’s worth money, and you’ll need it more then US) and put an AA on each of those places so you can rocket Nagasaki and Hiroshima every round!



  • @Jennifer:

    Just make sure to have Wake for US and Okinawa for UK (since it’s worth money, and you’ll need it more then US) and put an AA on each of those places so you can rocket Nagasaki and Hiroshima every round!

    I’ll be sure to remember that!  😄


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Hey, it’s a free 2d6 in damage to Japan’s income.  2 to 12 IPCs is a lot, with no worries about retalliation!



  • @ajgundam5:

    Well I have never played with tech rolls besides a few isolated rolls but I agree that India will fall without the Sinkiang IC so I agree Australia is good because if you want to kill his fleet and his islands then that would be a prime spot because of all the routes you can take. It would be a nice twist on how games usually work. Japan probably won’t be able to threaten Russia too much because they will have to invest heavily in navy.

    With 2 BB and 2 carries to start with i dont need to invest heavily in navy i just use what i have or simply ignore you:D.
    With the high costs of building a navy for the UK and with all the extra pressure in afrika and russia and the atlantic with germany and my initial few free turns with the ruskies by the time you get active russia will be gone 😄


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @ShadowHAwk:

    @ajgundam5:

    Well I have never played with tech rolls besides a few isolated rolls but I agree that India will fall without the Sinkiang IC so I agree Australia is good because if you want to kill his fleet and his islands then that would be a prime spot because of all the routes you can take. It would be a nice twist on how games usually work. Japan probably won’t be able to threaten Russia too much because they will have to invest heavily in navy.

    With 2 BB and 2 carries to start with i dont need to invest heavily in navy i just use what i have or simply ignore you:D.
    With the high costs of building a navy for the UK and with all the extra pressure in afrika and russia and the atlantic with germany and my initial few free turns with the ruskies by the time you get active russia will be gone 😄

    People just LOVE that statement.  I can’t wait to shove that down someone’s throat in a game.

    2 BB, 2 AC very good defense.  Decent fleet starter for offense.  Totally destroyed against 2 DD, 5 SS, 1 BB, 2 AC + 4 FIG and 12 Transports, which is what you’re going to run across against an aggressive American fleet.  And it’s only going to take 2-3 rounds for it to happen.

    So, to fight that, you have to forgo your mainland Industrials.  No more BB supports, no transports shuttling troops around for greater speed on the mainland, less ability to attack anything outside of Kwang, Manch, Bury and SFE without turns of movements to get your infantry up to the front.  Meanwhile, you ahve Russian strafes knocking down waves of infantry (by a fair Dicey, not by DAAK, obviously)

    Teamed up with 3-5 British bombers and an American bomber or two SBRing Germany to keep them from getting 16 IPCs of their income and Russia should easily be able to hold back the Germans for the 5-8 rounds necessary for Japan to be crushed like an ant at a sunday picnic.



  • Im getting used to Low Luck rules so at least the luck factor isnt there.

    It takes you 3 turns to get that fleet and 2 to get it over to japan. So i got 4 turns to play around in asia and 1 full build of navy at around the 40-45 mark. Dont forget about 4 trannies and 1 DD with the japan fleet at least.
    5 bombers will take you also at least 2 turns and US while spending on bombers does not build fleet.

    Germany will have it easy your WR stack looks impressive but not VS a whole german war machine. UK builds fleet off australia will mean no attack from that side either. I can ignore machuria and attack full bore towards china turn 1.

    Also with japan NA’s active what Aircraft carriers are you sending towards me ? if they get in range 1 fighter can destroy it since i can chose kamikaze targets 😄



  • If the US is building offensive fleet THAT heavilly, then they REALLY have nothing heading to Europe.  Between the Med Fleet and the Baltic Fleet and the Luftwaffe, GERMANY has a pretty good chance to take control of the Altantic.

    Also, Japan can build up right along with the US on the Naval front, and STILL send units to Asia.  Japan will have built 1 IC in Asia before the US even makes their first move, and built up a respectable TRN fleet of 3 TRNs off Japan.  That allows for 9 divisions per turn into Asia, more than Russia’s entire national produciton.

    After J1, The US has 3 ships in the Pacific, and 3 in the Atlantic.  To get a fleet to the specifications you state above Jen, the US would ahve to send EVERY existing ship they have to the Pacific, use all of their existing FIGs for their carriers, and STILL spend $154 IPC’s to build up the remaining ships and the 4th FIG.

    That is 4 turns of NOTHING but naval units.
    Nothing to fill the TRNs
    No Bombers to UK to Bomb Germany
    And it also assumes you did not counter-attack Pearl so taht those American ships and planes stayed alive for your build up, otherwise add 1-2 MORE turns to the time needed to build that fleet.

    So Jen, I have NO CLUE where you come off saying you can get a 200+ IPC fleet in 2 or 3 turns.  You need a minimum of 4 turns, and that is buying NOTHING but the ships.

    Now, while the US is building that fleet, Japan is sending units to Asia, and building up their fleet. 
    While supporting landings to Asia (up to 9 divisions, 3 prodiced on the mainland and up to 6 trannied in from Japan)
    Japan can still produce 1-2 naval units per turn, depending on income and the number of forces they want to ship to Asia

    Starting Units as of end of J1:
    2 BB
    2 AC
    4 FIGs
    3 TRN
    Possibly 1 DST, depending on Pearl J1 results.

    In 4 turns, by the time the US gets the fleet you specified, Japan adds:
    1 AC
    2 FIGs (existing land based units moved to third AC)
    1 DST
    2 SUB

    And that is just ONE ship a round.  Japan could always reduce the Asia landings and build more in any given round.

    On the final round before the US strikes, Japan goes full bore on navy, buying 4 SUBs and leaving the work in Asia to the units already shipped in (though by now, Japans income is well elevated, and they can still produce a few INF at their mainland IC even this round).

    Now, on US6, the US fleet can attack.
    US:  1 BB, 2 AC, 4 FIG, 2 DST, 4 FIG, 12 TRN
    Japan:  2 BB, 3 AC, 6 FIG, 2 DST, 6 SUBs, 3 TRN

    The US has a whopping 3% chance to win that fight.  And Japan only lost ONE ROUND of sending units to Asia.

    So let’s say the US does NOT attack, but goes Island Hoping instead since they cannot crack the Jap Fleet.
    They get an island, only 1 since the US can;t split their fleet or risk destruction.
    Japan builds 4 more SUBs then attacks the US fleet the following round, adding a land based Bomber to their fleet.

    70% destruction of US fleet in J7.

    And again, taht was with Japan only building ONE SHIP per round while the US spent EVERYTHING on Pacific Navy.

    So, after the 4 turn US build up to get their fleet, they move toward Japan, and get halfway there in T5.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    As I said, America’s sending a bomber maybe two bombers to England for SBRing Germany.  That’s 2-12 damage + 16 damage from British bombers a round.  Germany’s going to town at McDonald’s with that kind of bombardment. (40 - 28 = 12 income.  50% of what Russia’s making a round.)

    Meanwhile, Japan’s stalled at least a round, maybe 2 in Asia by strategic placements of British, American and Russian units.  they’ll make progress, but not as fast as they’d hope.

    Yes, this means Brition is only buying bombers and infantry.  Or bombers and saving money.  So?  Germany can focus on Russia, but again, all Russia has to do is kill off 4-6 infantry a round and build more then 6 in order to tip the scales in their favor.

    So we have Japan with 2 Battleships, 2 Carriers, 4 Fighters, 1 Transport on Japan 1.  America has 1 Battleship, 2 Destroyers, 2 Transports on America 1.

    Japan spends round one getting transports to attack the mainland.  America builds fleet.  Round 2, Japan still goes for mainland, America moves fleet to Solomons, builds more fleet.  Japan gets nervous, builds fleet.  America builds more fleet, takes a valuable island group, moves fleet to Solomons.  Japan makes more fleet, starts to threaten America.  America consolidates fleet making strong point.  Japan can either destroy fleet at loss of their own, or consolidate.  America builds more fleet.  Meanwhile, Russia and Brition are getting aggressive on the mainland killing off forces because Japan cannot reinforce them while they are building fleet.

    Japan and America earn almost the same.  Japan only has the advantage of 1 BB and 1 CV (40) vs America’s advantage of 2 Destroyers (24).  2 DD >/= 1 BB.  And if Japan hits pearl, they have a 2 carrier lead.  But if htey hit pearl too lightly, because of other actions, they might loose some lead.  It’s a toss up.  It’s not as sure as the destruction of Europe is, but it’s also not impossible.

    You make it sound as if it is impossible.



  • If you move to Solomons early, it is even worse for US.

    Without that huge screen of SUBs and TRN’s, most of Japan’s attack force already exists (2 BB, 2 AC, 1 BOM, 6 FIG) on J1

    If you sail to Solomons in US2, you sail at most 1 BB, 1 TRN, 1 DST, and whatever you built in US 1 (AC, TRN, DST probably)

    That leaves the Solomons fight on J3 as:
    US:  1 BB, 1 AC, 2 FIG, 2 DST, 2 TRN
    Japan:  2 BB, 2 AC, 1 DST, 4 FIG, 1 BOM, 3 TRN

    That is a 100% win for Japan with the loss of an average of 34 IPC’s of units in exchange for killing 100 IPC’s of US units.

    And Japan still has their entire capital ship fleet intact…


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Miscounted.  Yea, you could put it in the sea zone south of Hawaii and still be in striking distance of New Guinee which is out of range of the Jap fleet.

    Or, if Japan moves to the western side of the island, you can take Solomons 🙂

    Still, Japan can keep out pacing the Americans in fleet builds at the expense of taking Asia.  And that cost only goes up if they decide they want to go offense.  America can perfectly build a defensive fleet and bottle the Japs in, clear the islands, and rob them of money.  (A few allied bombers for SBRs would be helpful too, at that stage.)



  • At Hawaii, the US fleet is in range of Japan too.

    And I think I showed above where a ship a round until the US moves out was more than ample to keep the Japs on par with even a 100% Pacific Naval expenditure for the US.  Anythign less by the US is easier to counter.

    And the ship around Japan build up still allows for Asia to be executed at 70%+ normal efficiency, with the US at 0%-5% in Europe, including pulling the Atlantic Fleet to the Pacific.

    And with the US vacant from the European theater, UK is going to have a very difficult time getting fleet in the water that is not immediately sunk.

    And if the US does not go 100% Pacific, it is that much easier for Japan to keep pace… 90%+ of normal Asian forces.



  • The game is already over (only took 5 rounds)…and you’re both right.

    America and Britain were able to hem in the Japanese navy fairly effectively…this was largely due to an utterly horrid roll for the Japanese in China. By turn 3 Japan had lost Manchuria to the Russians and FIC to the Brits. Japan never collected more than $31 IPCs.

    On turn 3, with the entire Atlantic cleared of allied ships (killed or moved to Pacific)…Germany built 6 Transports, and pulled back fully on the Russian front, giving him the troops he needed. Britain built 8 INF, but the three fighters on Britain only killed ONE unit in four rounds of combat ( :x ), and Britain was conquered on G4. There was no hope of liberating it without utterly abandoning our still effective isolation of the Japanese fleet.

    We played through till the end of round 5. Russia was holding, but Japan was making excellent use of suicide units to target transports and carriers. Without the ability to build, Britain had only 6 ground units by the time the allies conceeded.

    Germany could have attacked DC on G5 with 1 Art, 2 inf and a BB shot against 1 fig, 2 arm and 2 inf…pretty long odds…so he took Greenland and Brazil instead. Then he built 5 subs, putting him at 7 total for the U-Boat interdiction. When Japan killed the remnants of the British Pac fleet with cheap suicide subs, America conceeded rather than waste his time…of course, I had no objections.

    Russia did well, but had no ability to counter Germany after his invasion of Britain due to German screening forces. Russia was at one point up to $38, but did little other than harass Germany and buy infantry.

    Tech dice, while only $1 IPC, weren’t too overriding…it was the Japanese suicide advantages, and revised German Luftwaffe NA that gave them the ability to guard their flanks while making the gains they needed.


    We’ve set up a new one, same crazy rules…now I’m Germany.

    I might go for Rockets.  😄



  • Sounds crazy indeed  😄

    I’d totally get rockets with just about every nation if the tech dice were $1 apiece. I’d definitely spend $6 to do about $7+ every single turn. Germany would be in trouble getting rocketed in both complexes by all 3 Allies  :evil:



  • It would take a bit for the US to get guns in range though…



  • So this German game is NOT going well at all…

    Even with $1 tech rolls, Germany probably spent 25 IPCs on dice before finally getting a tech (Rockets)

    America spent about $10 and got Long-Range, Heavy Bombers, AND Jet Fighters…

    The German airforce has been failing me utterly…you would not believe how many 5’s and 6’s I’ve rolled with planes in this game.  :x

    Allies went KGF. I hold the Karelia/Belo/Ukraine line at the moment (Norway is British), but I have only one unit in each territory between the Russians and Moscow, and a horrid lack of offensive units (2 tanks, 1 fighter, 1 bomber…some Arty in Berlin)…the fleet is long since dead, and the Brits have a solid hold of Africa due to the free IC in South Africa and a U.S. one built in Brazil. Russia has a nice supply of Fighters due to lend-lease.

    Japan has Australia and NZ, while building ICs in Kwang and India…6 tanks and men are now in India and China, neither can break through without severe loss at the moment, and the Brits have at least three units on every territory of the African coast.

    Japan is largely undeterred, but can’t make it to Moscow for at least 3 turns…more likely 4 or 5 with any force, but a Joint-Strike should occur next round against Western Europe, and I doubt I can take it back AND hold off the Russians.

    Any thoughts on general ideas for this type of game? I have a feeling this one will be over soon.  :lol:



  • Keep firing rockets.
    Buy INF, and 1 ART or ARM to round out your build and spend all income every turn.
    Picket to prevent blitzing
    Hunker down and defend.
    Counter-attack/trade as possible.

    What is Japan’s transport situation?  If they have enough (3 or 4), it may be advisable to downgrade builds in India and FIC to INF/ART mix, and send INF/ART/ARM into Northern Asia (or to FIC) from Japan via TRN.  More units per round to help breach the Russian defenses.



  • I’ve been on my partner to build more transports…he still only has two. It shouldn’t be hard to add a third prong to the strike though…just a question of whether it will be enough.

    I’ve been buying relatively even mixes of INF and ART…mainly due to the Fortress Europe NA, and for offense. Might go with more infantry and a tank or two though.

    I’m spending every dollar…believe me.  🙂



  • The German airforce has been failing me utterly…you would not believe how many 5’s and 6’s I’ve rolled with planes in this game.

    : (

    Well, 5’s are actually good for your Luftwaffe Dive Bombers. If you use the LHTR version of that, your fighters hit on 5’s on the first cycle of attack if there are no defending fighters present  :lol:



  • We’re using a different Luftwaffe I found on these boards somewhere…bonus to each tank accompanied by a fighter…both attack on a four during the first round of combat.

    So three tanks and three fighters is six fours in the first round…bad part is that it doesn’t work against ships.

    But that game is over…all three Allies got Rockets, and Germany was being hit by six Rockets each turn…effectively no income. Japan’s southern force through Persia was hit 1-2-3 by Britain, America and Russia…India was likely to fall on Britains next turn…and Japan no longer had enough to break through on the other two avenues of attack…we just conceeded rather than wait for America and Britain to get their act together and take Berlin.


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