L21 playoff OOB jkeller(X) vs trulpen (L+43)


  • Or if you like, I will ask the question in the FAQ, just let me know.

  • 2024 2023 '22 '15 '11 '10 Official Q&A Moderator

    Oh, and also, I pointed out that this is no different than a single destroyer blocking a massive fleet from moving through, or even a single infantry blocking 1,000 tanks. That’s Axis and Allies and always has been.

    The way the 1940 rules are written, a single destroyer built into your zone prevents your transports in that zone from non-comming. You’ve now heard from 3 of the top players in the league, but I understand if you’re new, certainly, ask the writer of the rulebook as I said. No disrespect meant.

    I also tried hard to dull the sting by suggesting that trulpen allow you to load up 6 units on 3 transports (because you built 2 more, so limited to 3), but I can’t require him to do that because he’s done nothing wrong. It sounds like he’s considering allowing that although he does not have to, which shows his sportsmanship.

  • '22

    Well even though it makes no sense and the wording does not indicate that loading is not allowed he did as you say quote the same section as you. Very disappointing to be honest I would rather take the loss on this game and have them interpret that rule differently because it really diminishes the realism of this version of the game unnecessarily in my opinion. But like good lawyers we have to use the rulebook to our advantage whenever possible to be the best players we can be whether the rule makes sense or not so there is no shame in that! This is a game after all! Unfortunately for me from reading the rule it was not at all clear to me that was the rule in fact I still believe the way it was written it implied moving for the purpose of loading was disallowed but not loading per se. So it does make it difficult for me in this situation but oh well it is what it is.

  • '22

    “ once a unit has moved or been involved in the combat phase, it can’t do anything at all in the noncombat phase with the exception of planes. I didn’t see you respond to these points I made.”

    I did actually. Just like a multinational transport the transports are not moving from the docks in Japans harbors so are not doing anything at all in noncombat; the land units are simply loading onto them. But we have heard from the ultimate authority and no set of rules is perfect so we just have to live within the rules that are set for us, in life and in this game!


  • Like I said earlier, it doesn’t make that huge of a difference for you in practise.

    If you look at the board you see that you can move the tr’s to z20 during CM. They do nothing this turn, but the next turn they’ll be able to load up to 9 land units and thus wreak havoc on Korea. Missing a few art there doesn’t matter with all that abundant air available.

  • '22

    Do you want to make the edit as to what you will allow me to change as well as your own changes due to the ambiguity and difference in interpretations of the rulebook? I don’t want to presume anything else at this point LOL. Hopefully like you said we can continue on in good fun in this and other games. I do apologize again for any insinuations of bias etc


  • I’ve considered it, but sorry, can’t do that really. There would have to be cancelled battles and stuff. Just too much that needs to be changed.

    Anyway, the des primarily cancelled a direct attack on Korea. The issue that’s been most debated was whether units would be able to be picked up during NCM in z6.

    Since there’s a good alternative to that, namely z20, I actually don’t think there’s much call to edit stuff. I’m confident you’ll take down Korea in two turns without much resistance.

  • '22

    @trulpen unfortunately due to the rules reading that way which was very misleading to me at least I made buys of transports and troops in Japan based on that 🤦‍♂️ As well as forgoing reclaiming money islands and basing my entire fleet in Japan etc etc so this has really screwed up everything

  • '22

    @jkeller its ok lets just play on


  • Hope for a continuously good and fun game. No hard feelings.

    I guess the main problem was the oversight of a built des preventing loading (have not played revised, but that version then has a different rule set regarding this). That was simple and direct and not opposed. All the other stuff is a different story.


  • @jkeller said in L21 playoff OOB jkeller(X) vs trulpen (L+43):

    In axis and Allie’s a “movement” is from one territory or sea zone to another. There are no rules or even a definition of movement WITHIN a territory or sea zone. So by rule the transport is NOT moving in noncombat so this rule you quotes does not apply in this case

    I thought a similar thing until asking Krieghund recently about an allied unit loading on another ally’s transport at the same time as a unit on the transport unloading on the other coast. To my surprise, he said the transport is moving within the zone so you can’t do that because the ally’s transport must only move on his turn. So there is such a thing as moving to a coast within a sea zone, but I never knew that before either. Agree it’s not spelled out in the rules. So no shame there. :wink:

    But in your case, if you just think of units moving in the combat movement phase or conducting combat in the combat phase, they are done unless they’re aircraft. I don’t think it says exactly that in one place, but it’s true when you put all the rules together. I hope that helps.


  • This post is deleted!
  • '22

    @gamerman01 yeah I think the rules don’t exactly make sense in that way but it is what is. I’m no military expert but at least from my understanding transports don’t participate in combat much (other than to hide)especially in a home port and don’t really do much in loading either. But them’s the rules we have to play by so what it is what it is!


  • Yeah :facepunch: at least they’re not taken first as casualties to protect the warships any more. And I remember them shooting down aircraft like AA with their 1 defense.

  • '22

    @gamerman01 this is true lol. In revised you could have like one warship and a large stack of trannies and be safe from a decent size Air Force. That was silly too. But anyway I want to thank you very much for your help not only in this game but for running the leagues in general. Having organized quite a bit before for other games I know it’s a lot of work and a thankless job but it brings a lot of us much entertainment and comeraderie so thank you

  • '22

    Game History

    Round: 7
    
        Research Technology - Germans
    
        Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 5 artilleries, 3 fighters, 6 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 
    
        Combat Move - Germans
            1 mech_infantry moved from Urals to Timguska
                  Germans take Timguska from Russians
            1 armour moved from Urals to Evenkiyskiy
                  Germans take Evenkiyskiy from Russians
            1 armour moved from Evenkiyskiy to Yenisey
                  Germans take Yenisey from Russians
            3 infantry moved from Vologda to Samara
    
        Combat - Germans
            Battle in Samara
                Germans attack with 3 infantry
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 3 infantry in Samara, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 0.50 expected hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Samara, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Samara
                Germans win, taking Samara from Russians with 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
    
        Non Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from Archangel to Vologda
            1 infantry moved from Tambov to Bryansk
            3 artilleries moved from Ukraine to Bryansk
            4 artilleries moved from Archangel to Belarus
            4 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus
            1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 94 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from 115 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone
            6 mech_infantrys moved from Germany to Eastern Poland
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 115 Sea Zone to Novgorod
            1 artillery moved from 115 Sea Zone to Novgorod
            1 battleship moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern France to Southern Italy
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to Southern Italy
            1 fighter moved from Southern France to Southern Italy
            1 destroyer moved from 112 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 mech_infantry moved from Bryansk to Volgograd
            1 armour moved from Bryansk to Volgograd
            1 mech_infantry moved from Bryansk to Volgograd
            1 armour moved from Bryansk to Volgograd
    
        Place Units - Germans
            3 artilleries placed in Ukraine
            3 infantry placed in Volgograd
            2 artilleries and 1 infantry placed in Novgorod
            2 mech_infantrys placed in Western Germany
            2 infantry placed in Germany
            3 fighters placed in France
            Germans undo move 6.
            3 fighters placed in Western Germany
    
        Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 62 PUs; end with 62 PUs
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 67 PUs
            Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 72 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 82 PUs
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Russians regular : 0.67
    Germans regular : 0.50
    
  • '22


  • R7 L21 SF jkeller vs trulpen (+43) OOB.tsvg

    Game History

    Round: 7

       Purchase Units - Russians
    
           Russians buy 1 artillery and 7 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 
    
    
    
       Combat Move - Russians
    
           1 armour moved from Libya to Tunisia
    
                 Russians take Tunisia from Italians
    
           1 fighter moved from Russia to Vologda
    
           3 infantry moved from Russia to Vologda
    
           3 artilleries and 10 infantry moved from Russia to Samara
    
    
    
       Combat - Russians
    
           Battle in Samara
    
               Russians attack with 3 artilleries and 10 infantry
    
               Germans defend with 2 infantry
    
                   Russians roll dice for 3 artilleries and 10 infantry in Samara, round 2 : 3/13 hits, 3,17 expected hits
    
                   Germans roll dice for 2 infantry in Samara, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits
    
                   2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Samara
    
               Russians win, taking Samara from Germans with 3 artilleries and 10 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
    
               Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
    
           Battle in Vologda
    
               Russians attack with 1 fighter and 3 infantry
    
               Germans defend with 2 infantry
    
                   Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 3 infantry in Vologda, round 2 : 0/4 hits, 1,00 expected hits
    
                   Germans roll dice for 2 infantry in Vologda, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits
    
                   1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Vologda
    
                   Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Vologda, round 3 : 0/3 hits, 0,83 expected hits
    
                   Germans roll dice for 2 infantry in Vologda, round 3 : 1/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits
    
                   1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Vologda
    
               1 fighter owned by the Russians retreated
    
               1 infantry owned by the Russians retreated to Russia
    
               Germans win with 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -6
    
               Casualties for Russians: 2 infantry
    
    
    
       Non Combat Move - Russians
    
           1 fighter moved from Vologda to Russia
    
           1 aaGun moved from Russia to Samara
    
           1 mech_infantry moved from Egypt to Iraq
    
           6 infantry moved from Russia to Samara
    
           1 submarine moved from 98 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone
    
    
    
       Place Units - Russians
    
           1 artillery and 7 infantry placed in Russia
    
    
    
       Turn Complete - Russians
    
           Russians collect 13 PUs; end with 13 PUs
    
           Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 9 PUs; end with 22 PUs
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Germans regular : 0,00

    Russians regular : -2,00

  • '22

    Game History

    Round: 7
    
        Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 artillery, 1 destroyer, 2 infantry and 7 submarines; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 
    
        Combat Move - Japanese
            1 bomber moved from Kwangsi to 41 Sea Zone
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Anhwe to Manchuria
            4 tactical_bombers moved from Japan to Manchuria
            4 fighters moved from Japan to Manchuria
            1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 16 Sea Zone
            2 tactical_bombers moved from Japan to 16 Sea Zone
            4 fighters moved from Japan to 16 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from 6 Sea Zone to 16 Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Guam to 21 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 21 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
            4 transports moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            2 cruisers moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            1 battleship moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
    
        Combat - Japanese
            Japanese creates battle in territory 6 Sea Zone
            Battle in 41 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 bomber
                ANZAC defend with 1 transport
                    1 transport owned by the ANZAC lost in 41 Sea Zone
                Japanese win with 1 bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
            Battle in Manchuria
                Japanese attack with 4 fighters, 2 mech_infantrys and 4 tactical_bombers
                Americans defend with 2 infantry; Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 4 fighters, 2 mech_infantrys and 4 tactical_bombers in Manchuria, round 2 : 5/10 hits, 5.00 expected hits
                    Chinese roll dice for 3 infantry in Manchuria, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                    1 mech_infantry owned by the Japanese, 2 infantry owned by the Americans and 1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Manchuria
                Japanese win, taking Manchuria from Chinese with 4 fighters, 1 mech_infantry and 4 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 5
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
                Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
            Battle in 6 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 battleship, 4 carriers and 6 fighters
                Americans defend with 1 destroyer
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 battleship, 4 carriers and 6 fighters in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/7 hits, 3.67 expected hits
                    Americans roll dice for 1 destroyer in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    1 destroyer owned by the Americans lost in 6 Sea Zone
                Japanese win with 1 battleship, 4 carriers and 6 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer
            Battle in 16 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 destroyer, 6 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers
                Americans defend with 1 submarine
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 destroyer, 6 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers in 16 Sea Zone, round 2 : 6/9 hits, 4.67 expected hits
                    Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 16 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                    1 submarine owned by the Americans lost in 16 Sea Zone
                Japanese win with 1 destroyer, 6 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Americans: 1 submarine
    
        Non Combat Move - Japanese
            6 fighters moved from 6 Sea Zone to Japan
            4 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from Manchuria to 6 Sea Zone
            6 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 16 Sea Zone to Japan
            1 bomber moved from 41 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
            1 submarine moved from 20 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 20 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 20 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
            4 infantry moved from Yunnan to French Indo China
            3 infantry moved from Kwangsi to French Indo China
            1 aaGun, 2 artilleries and 9 infantry moved from Shan State to French Indo China
            2 artilleries moved from Kweichow to Hunan
            1 infantry moved from Shensi to Kweichow
            1 artillery moved from Shensi to Kweichow
    
        Place Units - Japanese
            1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Kwangtung
            1 destroyer and 7 submarines placed in 6 Sea Zone
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Kwangsi: 2 bombers
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to Kwangtung: 2 bombers
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
    
        Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 55 PUs; end with 55 PUs
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Chinese regular : 0.00
    Americans regular : -0.50
    Japanese regular : -0.33
    

  • No save file?

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