Stalin apparently had ideas to recreate cavalry armies in 1942. How would Soviet performance have been affected (positively and negatively) if such an army were created instead of cavalry mechanised groups and tanks corps being the highest armoured unit?
You guys have high regards for the Italian Armies.
The Italian war effort can be described as a failure. Italy had only one main front to fight taking on enemies that have many fronts to contend with. The battles of 1915-17 showsed little progress, 1917 the rout of Caporetto.
Only when Austria-Hungary was at the point of revolution could the Italian Armies have large sucess.
I agree. But the Italians had more divisions and ships engaged with the enemy at any one time than the USA had during the entire conflict.
You also have to consider that the “Alpine Front” was one of the most difficult and geographically challenging of the entire war.
Another idea: What if they prepared the attack, but did not launch it?
Problem with this Axistiger, is that this would have been bad for morale. You cannot tell someone(the Germans) the are better than someone else(the Russians) then say: we cannot beat them. The Germans did believe they could best the enemy.
Otherwise, I think it is a great idea.
Worsham: I have been thinking on this, but have not been able to get out my maps. ( Have been busy with Gettysburg!).
Problem with withdrawing from the salient, apart from the morale thing again, is that Kharkov looms large. It cannot be easily abandoned after the great campaign to retake it.
I believe there could have been a shortening of the Southern salient as long as it did not compromise Kharkov.
Building up a reserve and not throwing tanks at minefields and anti-tank emplacements, is definitely the way to go. The Germans always cost the Russians dear when able to do this. (Both 42 Kharkov and 43 come to mind.)
And Manstein was the man to do it. Sacking him was such a bad move by Hitler.
Build Your Own WWII Army, is basically what most of us read and did Kurt Godel7, maybe. I did! Â 😄
If it really would have come down to build my own Army I would have gone for a small one.
Something like a Platoon is consisting of 7 Peps.(has also a dedicated armoured/personnel carrier.
One Platoon leader ,1 MG 42 man,1 Radioman, 1 Engineer (handy w. explosives and such) 3 Reg. Inf. men.
3 Platoons a Group , 3-4 Groups a Brigade.
7 Tanks a Platoon ,3 platoons a group ,3-4 Groups a Brigade.
Platton consisting of 1 Command Tank, but diffrent in design ( More Armour no heavy Gun, 2cm maybe for defence)
2Heavy tanks such Tiger or Panther,JS I or equivalent, 2 Med Tanks like P IV class or Sherman and 2 Tank Hunter like StuG, Hetzer (whatever fits Best).
Each Tank Platoon gets 3-4 dedicated Selfpropelled Artillery Guns w. Ammo carriers.(Wasp,Priest etc. 10.5 cm o.e. shells)
Each Tank Platoon gets 3 Fighters and 4 Bombers wich they can be called upon any given time via Liason officers who are on board the Command Tank.
I just wanted shorter Communication ways and the combined best of everything, my thoughts behind the build your Army.
I think less is most of the times better then to much.
The most important equipment of course would have been the Radio then.
These Brigades combined with Reg Inf. and Tank Divisions as rearguard Divisions would have done any Job they would have been asked for, whereby the Reg Division would have taken the part to secure and hold the gain Positions and Terretories conquered.
If you’re saying D-Day and the deception in Operation Bagration (and all the other times on the Eastern Front) was all due to betrayal, it should be well known.
In response to your questions, there are several clear answers:
Most German submarines were destroyed by now, and the rest would have been near Pas De Calais, where Germany expected the Allies to land.
And there were German naval units in Normandy-several torpedo boats, or E-boats, which sunk a Norwegian destroyer, the only German naval victory on D-Day. There were also these German naval assets at Normandy: 3 torpedo boats, 29 fast attack craft, and 72 minesweepers. If there truly was sabotage these would have disappeared as well, and the secret traitor would not have been uncovered anyway by the Nazis if we don’t even know his identity today.
The stripping of Luftwaffe and anti aircraft assets were probably done to reinforce the forces in the Defence Of The Reich campaign, after the Big Week which drove German aircraft numbers down to irreplaceable levels:
As for the ordering of targeting devices from Normandy, it’s the same reason why Rommel left for his wife: Inaccurate German weather reports.
As for the two agents or spies your were talking about, one of them was a double agent (like Germany’s entire spy network in Britain), and simply bad luck and quarrelling at higher levels in the German command prevented them from using potentially important information from the other agent.
I cannot find evidence about the problems with the Panzer Lehr Division that you talked about, but I do believe you on this information.
The Allies were much stronger than thought-analysis shows that even if Germany was able to get the full plan from a dead body after the Exercise Tiger disaster (which involved an attack by Germans ships against troops preparing for D-Day), and Germany transferred all of the Fifth Panzer Army to the beaches, and Rommel stayed, the Allies could not have been repelled-shore bombardment and air power would have broken up panzer forces enough to prevent a collapse. The war would have simply lasted longer, or the Soviet would have conquered more of Germany.
Honestly, I find it quite interesting that you came up or mentioned this theory, as it makes for good discussion. I hope we have some great discussions about the German side of D-Day!
Finally, as for the original question, the Fifthteenth Army was eventually used at Normandy, where it was devastated as well as at the Falaise Pocket. The main problem with Operation Market Garden were the Allies not taking seriously Dutch resistance intelligence the fact that German panzer divisions were refitting right where the Allies were going to land. I think if the Fifthteenth Army was at Normandy on the first day, it might have been much harder for the Allies, as they would not have stablished as secured beachheads.
I can certianly see why Canada would be at the tops of this list, the Canadian assault on Vimy ridge is one that has certianly deserves mention, Epic, simply epic. Of course, their counter attack in Belgium at Ypres in the face of a German gas attack, cant go unmentioned, full credit to them.
I think the German Sturmabteillung, and their descendants the Stormtroopers, were some of the best formations not only in the German amry, but in the world. However, I would be remiss if I did not mention Paul Von Lettow-Vorbeck and his determined group of east african (Tanzanian) Askari schutztruppen, who waged a very spirited and determined guerilla campagin against the Allies, and is the only German commander who was never defeated in battle.
Another very impressive allies was the American 93rd division and their black troopers, the Harlem Hellfighters of 369 regiment.