• Any ideas for shore batteries?

    Long time ago, a friend of mine suggested shore batteries for our A&AP game, but we never implemented it. My suggestion would be to use AA guns with the same cost and movement. They would act as AA guns and shore batteries. The rules would be as follows: whenever ships move or stop through a sea zone next to an enemy territory containing a shore battery, the shore battery takes a shot at every ship passing by, with a required roll of “1” to be a hit. It would still take two hits to sink a battleship. Let me know if you think the player receiving the shots should assign which ships get hit, or the player shooting the ships should have some say in it.
    Let me know what you guys think, and I think this unit could be used to any A&A game.


  • Only modification woul dbe that I would limit their fire to ships engaging in an amphib assault (meaning they came clsoe enough to shore to be fired on), and even then only the TRNs and any vessels firing a support shot could be hit.

    Also, I would not make them new units, just add the ability to existing AA guns.

    This would be a slight Axis advantage under normal circumstances.


  • I like your suggestion.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Some people like our Jennifer like to use such rules under coastal batteries.

    In practical terms within the structure of a heavily abstracted game its possible to have such things but at specific points like:

    Gibrater: all ships that pass get a free shot at by the Brits say a 1 or less is a hit.

    Baltic straights: same idea

    Also under AARHE under invasions in the first round of combat after supporting shots from naval ships has been performed, any defending artillery get a free preemtive shot at attacking infantry. AA guns then fire at planes, followed by preemtive plane attacks ( only if the defender has no air support). Then the attacker can roll for infantry only. On the second round attacking armor/ art units can participate… as they are being unloaded only after the beach is secure.


  • in fact we did consider having coastal batteries builtin to AA units in AARHE

    we would then call the game piece ID (Infrastructure Defense) instead


  • I like that. When would they shoot at the ships?


  • We haven’t decided yet.
    But we think they can only hit enemy ships engaging in amphibious assault.

    Come to AARHE and help us model it properly.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6378.0
    Just the last two pages.


  • I wouold definitely say only those ships engaging in amphib (TRNs, BB’s, and DST if you have something like Combined Bombard in the rules).

    Question becomes… how do you handle the 2 hit aspect of BB’s? Or do BB’s simply shrug off the shore batteries?

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Question becomes… how do you handle the 2 hit aspect of BB’s? Or do BB’s simply shrug off the shore batteries?

    +++ Shore batteries only target land units incoming on invasion. AS you may know every 4 land units gets one free shore shot ( no fractions) plus each infantry ( they are the only land units that can attack in the first round) get a +1 modifier with each matching ship shore bombarding ship ( BB, CA, DD) . so if you got 6 infantry and 4 DD  then you get one free barrage (preemtive) plus 4 infantry are boosted +1 on that opening round.


  • +++ Shore batteries only target land units incoming on invasion.

    ok so coastal batteries don’t target ships only incoming land units (landing crafts in real life)

    so if you got 6 infantry and 4 DD  then you get one free barrage (preemtive) plus 4 infantry are boosted +1 on that opening round.

    more precisely you get 4 preemptive shots, but only 1 defending infantry can be killed
    but your chance of getting that bombardment kill is much higher than if you only sent 1 destroyer

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    ok so coastal batteries don’t target ships only incoming land units (landing crafts in real life)

    ++++ yes due to the fact that these ships are out of range for the most part. perhaps only in Gibrater can something be done on this.

    Quote
    so if you got 6 infantry and 4 DD  then you get one free barrage (preemtive) plus 4 infantry are boosted +1 on that opening round.

    more precisely you get 4 preemptive shots, but only 1 defending infantry can be killed
    but your chance of getting that bombardment kill is much higher than if you only sent 1 destroyer

    +++++ How do you have 4 shots? only one ship can support per 4 infantry landed. the other ships merely support attacking infantry.


  • @Imperious:

    ++++ yes due to the fact that these ships are out of range for the most part. perhaps only in Gibrater can something be done on this.

    we could also allow Balkans/Turkey to shoot at ships entering or leaving SZ 16 black sea?

    +++++ How do you have 4 shots? only one ship can support per 4 infantry landed. the other ships merely support attacking infantry.

    this is just a little thing I convinced you earlier

    both DD and BB (and now Cruiser as well?) can bombard…and we don’t stop any of them from bombarding

    the more attacking infantry the higher the maximum damage possible…1 every 4 inf
    the more bombarding ships the higher the probability of getting close to maximum damage

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    We are on the same page… we are also posting the same ideas about the same topic in two different threads…LOL

    I gonna start on the player aids and the new battleboard tonight. Try to get some nifty pictures of ww2 that i can stick into the reformatted ruleset. Try to find pictures that appy for a specific topic… for amphibious invasions for example we need some pics on d-day landings and pacific island campaign. This will blend in well with the text. Use black and white if possible to cut down on peoples ink. Avoid pictures of the swatsika for obvious reasons. Remember this is going to be published on this site as a prime feature to bring people in… a Free game!

    Tekky im counting on you like never before!


  • If a BB or DST is in range to hit land, then the land units are in range of the ships.  Land long-range artillery tends to be bigger and have a longer range than naval artillery.

    Much of the German coastal artillery in WWII had a range of 11-16 kilometer.  Bofors had a range of neary 20 k.  And the 3 x 38 cm KM 36/35 had a range of 42 kilometers (abut 27 miles, equal to the longest range Naval guns)


  • What about those US coastal batteries against Japanese invasion in case they start losing Pacific war…


  • @Imperious:

    I gonna start on the player aids and the new battleboard tonight. Try to get some nifty pictures of ww2 that i can stick into the reformatted ruleset.

    But the way I know the new map excites you but I think the player aids are more important. Like basic project more important then optional set I feel.

    As for reformatting hows that gonna work? You reformat while I continue to update the draft?
    Would we have synchronizing problems?

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    NO everything is great. You keep doing that work. I will eventually reformat some fonts and jazz it up and add pictures.


  • ok…you can collect pictures, play with fonts and other formatting any time you like with dummy/old data

    I keep going with the compiling
    after phase 3 you import latest data of our project
    and release

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I wont begin untill you are satisfied ( and others) with the draft. I just have a folder on my desktop with pictures.


  • I think the Shore or Coastal batteries should target all ships involved in the amphibious invasion. Maybe BB can shrug them off.


  • We are also discussing about this in the last pages of “AARHE: Phase 2: Units” thread.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6378.0

    We are still argueing about range of coastal batteries thus whether they can only hit atacking land units (landing crafts) or also ships taking part in support.

    Note this’ll be part of the ID (infrastructure defence) piece using the exisitng AA piece. You may now have multiple ID pieces in one territory. Its AA power has been reduced to realistic levels.


  • OK… here is my personal opinion of how to handle this…

    AA (or ID as I guess it will be called in this version) represents the BIG guns… the ones with the 20+ k range.  Those weapons fire at the SHIPS, the BB’s, DSTs (if applicable) and TRNs.

    Those shots should be fired BEFORE units offload (so losign a TRN means losing it scargo also… makes those amphib landings far more risky for the attacker, as they should be.

    If you want to add in the net effect of defenders firing at landing craft on their way to the beaches, allow ART (and maybe ARM, but I would limit it to just ART) DEFENDERS to have first strike fire… to attack the amphib forces before they reach shore.  That would be only for the very first round of battle, after that ART would be like any other unit (would give ART a defensive purpose other than being over-priced INF on defense).


  • Yeah amphibious assault we did make defending ART fire in opening-fire for 1st cycle.
    I guess those can represent the guns aiming down at the beach.

    Its quite good that way actually. Some of those guns at Omaha were destroyed by ship’s bomardment before landing. Our amphibious assault combat sequence let ships and air fire before defending ART.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Ill go with that as well.


  • Well cool, I am glad to have contributed somethign to your efforts 🙂

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