How many ships do purchase as Germany in a typical game?

  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    I like the LHTR rules much better. I also like no tech better. Just end the chance that that stack of FTRs in WEU is going to be able to sink your “safe” TRNs in SZ2.


  • At least with tech in LHTR, you would still ahve 1 turn to reinforce or move those TRNs before the LRA would come into effect, since the tech is active at the END of a turn, instead of immediate…

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    At least with tech in LHTR, you would still ahve 1 turn to reinforce or move those TRNs before the LRA would come into effect, since the tech is active at the END of a turn, instead of immediate…

    Which is MUCH better.  After all, you spent that round researching it.  You didn’t wake up one morning and say “Eureka!”  Right?  You don’t get your purchased units at the start of the turn, why get your tech then?


  • I wonder if people would roll techs if we allowed it in Tournaments. I probably wouldn’t (especially with heavy bombers being extremely crappy with LHTR), but I wonder if some people would. Germany could get some great use out of rockets, and the Americans could roll for super subs the turn before a large naval attack to provide an extra 10+ attack points on their stack of subs. And Russia could get combined bombardment to shell out Southern Europe!!  😄


  • Forget Rockets with Germany….get 'em for Japan! snickers  😄


  • Our most common tech here is if Japan happens to have the Banzai Infantry and Tokyo Express NA’s, he’ll roll for Combined Bombardment on turn three once he has some spare cash.

    That’s $15 for a nice addition to any amphib assault…I’ve seen stacks of ten destroyers for Japan by games end in such a situation…makes the Jap fleet nearly impossible to crack, and it will slaughter nearly anything on the coasts.

    But I’m getting off topic…I usually don’t even bother with the Baltic fleet, unless I know Britain and US are coming for me from turn 1. I usually just go with a tranny or two in the Med to speed up the take over of Africa, then focus on Russia.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Actually, I might be interested in the Jet Power tech for Germany.  Especially with the reduced cost of fighters in AAR.

    Comes into effect at the end of the round???  no problem!  Let’s turn those Russian/British/American infantry into ground beef!!!  Bwuhahahah.

    (Not to mention that baltic fleet iwth AC, if you got one, is now exponentially harder to destroy at a much higher risk to the allies.  And if we’re going that route, nothing’s stopping me from 1 sub a round up there to make it even harder.)

    And if we’re still going that route, let’s go with SS in turn 6 with Germany to sink those pesky allied tug-boats!


  • And while Germany and Japan are buying tech…

    Russia is cleaning house in Central Europe AND asia with INF backed up by a few ART, ARM and FIGs.  Russia with an inome of $35 anyone?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    And while Germany and Japan are buying tech…

    Russia is cleaning house in Central Europe AND asia with INF backed up by a few ART, ARM and FIGs.  Russia with an inome of $35 anyone?

    Bah, I always get Russia up to 35 IPCs…doesn’t everybody???  🙂

    Seriously, if 16 IPCs isn’t too much for a carrier, then I fail to see 15 IPCs for tech being too much for Jet Power, Switch.


  • But you are then trading that security for 3 rounds in the Baltic, which means UK can start hitting Eastern (and Germany) almost immediately.

    You also may have to spend more than 1 round rolling for it.

    To hit Moscow and be able to do more than $4 total to Russia, you ahve to send AA’s to Eastern or Balkans,  And with no Baltic Fleet, Eastern is in play…


  • Well I play my first game of “Revised” in a small tournament of all things. I’m a long time 2nd ed. Player via Zone.com

    I’ve been pouring all over for ideas (I play Allies this Sat)… I went to  http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Caspian_Sub/ and reviewed his strategy of putting 2 tra instead of an AC. I’ll quote some of it here… any thoughts?

    Two Transports
    What else can we get with those 16 IPCs?  Subs are still not a great buy since we’re worried about planes, so let’s look at 2tra.  Here are the top three outcomes in the sim when we add two transports to the navy:

    Outcome Times AFtr Abmr DTra DSub DDes
    Defender    Wins 210 2 1
    Defender    Wins 185 1 1
    Defender    Wins 165 3 1

    **The defender wins about 72% of the time.**  That is comparable to the destroyer.  The UK could strafe this fleet, but that is a substantial gamble.  A strafe is likely to only trade UK fighters for German subs, and most German players would be very happy with that trade.

    The objective is to escape and merge with Med


  • I’ve done 2 transports before. It has its own sets of pros and cons.

    The first thing to understand is that you require a bid in Africa (Libya/Algeria). You must take Egypt on G1, otherwise the UK gets a windfall of units to use against you across your underbelly, meaning you’ll make no progress in Africa whatsoever. How large the bid is depends on your confidence. It could be as low as 1 inf, and it may be as high as 1 inf 1 arm if you’re counting on losing the fighter in Ukraine.

    The next in line is that you’re attempting to link the med and baltic fleets together to create a threatening navy. If you don’t do so, the carrier is a better buy if you simply want to sit there because of the immense increase in defense it presents (+9 dice points, +1 count vs 2 transports).

    The third thing is that if you’re serious about threatening UK/US with those transports, you need to keep a modest number of units in W. Europe. Some people don’t do that, and sometimes you really don’t want nor need to because the landing the Allies can present early on is insignificant.

    If you understand those points, then the 2 transport buy works viably. The major pro of 2 transports vs 1 carrier is that you don’t need to keep your fighters out at sea. Buying a carrier essentially does mean you create another territory you have to defend with fighters. 2 transports also gives you potentially great flexibility if the linked fleet makes it back to the med. 2 transports is also better than 1 carrier if you’re just going to suicide your navy.

    There is one counter that I like as the US against a 2 tran buy. The US starts off with 2 fighter 1 car as their purchase, and moves their existing navy to SZ1. On US2, they can attack the linked fleet with 5 fighter 1 bomber 1 dest 2 tran, which has a high chance of wiping everything out there. Still, the US is set back. It has likely lost 2 of its existing transports, and has built none to compensate for it. According to my experience in a few games against myself, the results still tend towards an Allied victory, but I couldn’t tell you for sure as my style keeps changing a bit and you can never tell with some fluky dice here and there.

    A carrier buy + naval link is pretty deadly. The US doesn’t have a quick counter to it, and it’s a very nasty fleet defensively. It may have not much flexibility as 2 transports and does require your fighters float out in the waters, but neither do you have to station troops in W. Europe, and it’s very likely that your fleet will live past Turn 2.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    And yet, I still fail to see how spending 5 IPCs to get Jet Power, a round, is going to hand Eastern European Provinces to the Russians. 😛

    Seriously, if you’re going to go with a carrier and loose the carrier, 2 planes, a destroyer, 2 submarines and a transport, you are going to need to beef your airforce.  So you get 1 less tank until you get the tech.  big deal.  But two fighters defending at a 5 or less is infinitely better then 2 fighters defending at a 4 or less.  IMHO.


  • I don’t think I’d bother wasting money for Jet Fighters as Germany. Those fighters only purpose is to die…it’s just a question of where, when, and who they take with them.

    Now Japan or America, on the other hand, both have the income early to spend $5 IPC per turn for a NICE defensive boost to any carrier group.


  • Infinitely better?

    For each jet fighter you have, that is 1 extra defense point. If you have 6 fighters, that means on average you will kill 1 more unit per round once you get the research. You spent approximately 30 IPCs to gain 6 defense points? How about instead purchase 10 infantry for 20 defense points and 10 units to lose, in addition to capability to invade territories?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @trihero:

    Infinitely better?

    For each jet fighter you have, that is 1 extra defense point. If you have 6 fighters, that means on average you will kill 1 more unit per round once you get the research. You spent approximately 30 IPCs to gain 6 defense points? How about instead purchase 10 infantry for 20 defense points and 10 units to lose, in addition to capability to invade territories?

    Actually, assuming your fighters get 3 rounds or more of combat before they are even targetted by an attacker, you’re getting 15 points vs 12 points per fighter, 6 fighters, that’s 18 extra defense points, or 3 more hits on average.

    I’d say that’s a pretty darn good investment at the least.


  • Let’s say you get 18 defense points with the research at 30 IPCs cost on average. 30 IPCs = 10 infantry = 20 defense points multiplied by however many rounds (since you wanted to multiply the fighters, you’d have to be fair and multiply the infantry), and 10 bodies to take hits for the fighters. That’s an infinite improvement over Jet Fighters. Infantry in addition have the ability to take territories, to add insult to injury.

    Admittedly there are some strange cirumstances in which you’d rather get Jet Fighters rather than infantry, but those are very strange circumstances and extremely unusual in terms of defense. You would need to have a lot of fighters to make Jet Fighters worth it.

  • 2007 AAR League

    With jet fighters you have much more mobility to move them to where you want. Although you can’t just leave them someplace by themselves it definently boosts your defense quicker then infantry can.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Not to mention jet fighters are not only 2.5 times better at defense then an infantryman, but it has 4 times the range and 3 times the attack power.


  • @trihero:

    There is one counter that I like as the US against a 2 tran buy. The US starts off with 2 fighter 1 car as their purchase, and moves their existing navy to SZ1. On US2, they can attack the linked fleet with 5 fighter 1 bomber 1 dest 2 tran, which has a high chance of wiping everything out there. Still, the US is set back. It has likely lost 2 of its existing transports, and has built none to compensate for it. According to my experience in a few games against myself, the results still tend towards an Allied victory, but I couldn’t tell you for sure as my style keeps changing a bit and you can never tell with some fluky dice here and there.

    I use a similar counter - buying the same for US but also buying 3 ftrs on UK1. This way UK can hit the merged German fleets in sz 7 on UK2 with 5ftrs 1bmr 1BB and 2 TRN and US can follow with the forces you mention on US2. Depending on how the UK attack goes the Allies can save either the UK or US transports and the German fleet death is certain. Also with the 3 ftr UK buy the German Baltic fleet is under threat for UK2 and MUST either come out and merge with the Med fleet or buy more vessels in the Baltic

  • 2007 AAR League

    What about buying a second carrier mebbe later on down the road, such as Ger 3 or 4? I realize it might nto be around that long even with  1 AC, but it could boost your Baltic defenses even more, especially with 4 fighters. yes, they may/will get wiped out, but they will provide some great defense and will destroy a nice part of the Allied fleet, depending on who it is.  I just thought of a 2nd AC lately, but you’d probably ahve to have lots of guys on the ground first. Just do a mass inf build from Ger 2 to 4/5, then do the buy, if the fleet is still around.

  • Moderator

    I’m normally a “no-ships or 1 ac” kind of player but I am seriously considering a second AC on G3 in this game I have going at DAAK.

    I’m thinking it may lead to a “going after UK strat” BUT I’m just not sure if I’ll pull the trigger on it.Â

    It is only J2 right now so I still have time to come to my senses, but I may indeed try it.  I’ll have to see how my opponent plays US 2 and R3.


  • I only buy enough transports to secure africa.

  • 2007 AAR League

    africa is not secureable.

    its a matter of how long you think you can stay in or delay or a matter of how badly you want the americans or amercians/british to pay for it.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I’ve thought of hte +2 trasports in the Med idea.  Allows germany to have 3 transports and a battleship, plenty to counter in Africa for a few rounds.

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