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Japan landing in western US –--- how can i do this?



  • i play about once every week or two with 2-3 friends.  we don’t play with bids or use any of the optional rules at all.  i always play japan (i was the newest one to the game when i started playing with them) because i like the idea of playing on the unfavored side and winning anyway and they don’t like me playing germany.

    i think i have gotten good at playing japan–—axis wins most of the time.  i think this is because the allies are not coordinated in their strategy.

    i have always threatened my axis partner that i would land japanese troops in US but he always talks me out of it-----they say it can’t be done.

    if i only played one more game and landed japanese troops in western US and held it, i would be satisfied.

    TELL ME HOW TO DO IT!



  • Well, you could ignore all the free goodies in Asia and provoke the wrath of the sleeping giant some more.  I like the approach through Alaska myself, less open ocean to coverand the US might think you’re planning the amphibious assualt on the USSR.  Once you’re on North America, though, be prepared to deal with massive amounts of resistance springing up out of nowhere.

    In simpler terms: it’s very difficult and highly situational.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Since you are using the out of the box rules, it may be possible, but it’s a gamble and you will likely lose the game because Germany will probably be in trouble from the beginning.

    Here goes.

    Build your existing fleet so that you have at least 4 transports. Don’t build too many more than 4 or the US player will become suspicious. Build 1 bomber a turn until you have around 4 or 5. Use the transports to land units from Japan like normal and use the bombers to attack in Asia.

    VERY IMPORTANT: NEVER move the transports away from sea zone 60 and keep ALL of your bombers in Burytia. Do not move them from Burytia. And NEVER use the bombers against a territory with an Anti-Aircraft gun. They must survive.

    When you think you are ready to make your move, use all of your income to roll for the Long Range Aircraft technology. On the turn that you roll for LRA, load up your transports with 4 infantry and 4 armor and move your entire fleet to sz56 and land in Midway Island. Attack the US on the next round. That’s it.

    Your bombers from Burytia can hit Western US and land in Midway. If you have any extra fighters in Burytia you can also use them too. The fighters from the carriers can land in Midway and the extra fighters from Burytia can land on the carriers. He can only build 10 units in West US but you will probably have 2 battleship bombardments, 4 or more fighters from your carriers and Burytia, 8 ground units and as many bombers as you have in Burytia. You are going to lose some aircraft to Anti-Aircraft fire but you should have more than enough units to overcome 10 US units in W US.

    Personally, I think it’s wasteful to gamble the entire outcome of the game on whether or not you get Long Range Aircraft, but if it makes you happy, then have fun with it.



  • What if you just take hawai and then move back to the mainland for a few turns ? He will just think that it is a ipc grabbing action ( 1ipc.) Then the turn before you attack you can attack allaska for 2 more ipcs and move your bombers to hawai island.

    But western usa is a bit of a waste try imo. Unless you dont need your trannies somewhere else ( and you will need them ) it is not that good. And 2 much a gamble because of the LRA.
    But most moves are just to obvious to spot. It takes 2 moves to get there and an observant US player will see it comming from a long range.



  • If you are going to go after the US, you have to do a double landing.

    Use 1 TRN with 1 INF to take Western Canada (more if it is occupied).  Land your main force in Alaska.

    The next round, build an IC in Alaska, and fly every fighter you have to Alaska.  Send your TRN’s back to Japan for refills, and hopefully you have a second wave of TRN’s that will offload a second batch of forces to Alaska.

    Don;t even attempt this unless you can get about 8 divisions into Alaska, and take control of WCAN, and send FIGs in to reinforce Alaska in the round after you take it.

    Massed FIGs, an IC, and lots of initial land forces, plus blocking an immediate counter-attack by taking WCAN is the ONLY way you can make a serious attempt at North America.

    The good thing, even if you fail to hold more than a couple of turns, you WILl divert all of teh US’s attention to Japan and away from Europe…



  • I think the IC is a bit of a waste there imo. You can shuttle 8 land units every turn there the 2 extra from the IC wont make the huge difference. Remember you should also keep pressure on asia or else ussr can mop you up there and focus entirely on germany.

    Also i dont think that blocking canada will give you a lot of result. US can only counter with armor from western US or Eastern canada. Without inf support he will be trading armor for inf and will lose all armor in the counterattack. IF he wants a decent counterattack he will move with inf into canada and your 1 inf wont make any difference. I would like a force of about 4-5 tanks attacking my 4 inf 4 arm force there. Ill be trading armor for inf and the armor wont reach europe so his attack there is also weakened considerably.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    I’d modify 505’s plan a bit.

    A)  I would use 2 transports.  Take Midway and Hawaii.  This dispells any fear the US may have of a Land invasion.  After all, who’s going to invade California with 2 armor and 2 infantry???  B)  Position a BB with each transport, maybe even the carrier with some fighters.  This’ll just look like defending your transports against American aircraft. C)  If you want to use bombers get the LRA and follow 505’s instructions, but you really don’t need them.  W. USA probably only has a few infantry if that.  D) 4 Trannies in SZ60 and make sure you have 4 inf, 4 arm to move on them.  E)  Attack W. USA and Alaska simultaniously.  (This gives you a counter attack against W. USA when USA takes it back!)

    Note, if you choose not to use the bombers in your attack, there’s no need to take Hawaii and Midway other then to dispell fears of an invasion by the US player.  It’s a risk, you take the land and you might loose units you have to replace before attacking, you don’t attack and you might cause the US to build up defensive forces.

    Also, remember the soil is only worth 10 IPCs.  Try and limit your forces so you can justify this cost.  (2 Inf + 2 Arm = 16.  Land + 2 Defending Inf + AA gun = 21 IPC.  Can’t count the IC because you won’t be able to use it.)

    Heck, with luck you might be able to take W. Canada and C. USA on your next turn before the US can retake and then you can go whole hog construction in W. USA.


  • 2007 AAR League

    I had done such before, got kicked out, went north into canada, went east into more canada, came back into west canada, went into central america, then mexico, then the west america stomp when my ships with reinforcements arrived.  Germany was effectively putting pressure on america’s atlantic defense.  It was grand. 😄


  • 2007 AAR League

    Japan may not be easily able to land in North America but something I noticed is that Germany can … if they build a lot of transports in the Med then move them to Sz 13 (?) under western europe they can invade Eastern Canada. You might all know this but I didn’t notice until recently. Very sneaky



  • Also suicidal in most cases 🙂



  • There’s a detailed plan for this over on the Caspian Sub website.  It’s called the Canadian Shield.

    The short version of the plan is this:
    Germany:

    • Build 3tra in the Baltic
    • Invade Gibraltar
    • Unite the fleets in Z07 on round two
    • Invade E. Canada on round three

    Japan:

    • Build transports round one
    • Ship gear to Buryatia round two
    • Take gear from Buryatia to W. Canada round three

    The whole paper is 7 pages long, so it’s a good place to start if you’re thinking about hitting the US.

    Here’s the start of the paper:


    **Those damn smug Canadians.  Every day they lord it over the US that their donuts are tastier, their money is prettier, and their comedians are more disgruntled.

    It’s payback time, eh?

    Eh indeed.**


    It’s Policy Paper #13 in the Files section.

    http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Caspian_Sub/

    Good luck.


  • 2007 AAR League

    @ncscswitch:

    Also suicidal in most cases 🙂

    yes but US prolly wont c it coming and if u have like 4 trans in med you can shuttle over say 4 inf and 4 tanks when usa has eastern us lightly defended you will b able to do damage in N. America maybe taking Central America and all of canada by blitzing which puts you up 10 ipcs, very helpful. I realize you will say it is a waste of ipcs but it will cripple US and distract them from pacific and atlantic for a while. hurts uk and usa at the same time and if u have been using those trans in the med you prolly should control most of africa and if japan took india nd possibly australia nd nz then uk will be gaining 8 ipcs per turn  :lol: which essentially puts them out of the game for a while and as long as u have a pretty good defense against russia you can counter attack. If japan just holds the US and UK pacific fleets at bay i think the axis can win.

    i realize this topic is about the opposite coast of the US but im just trying to c if this is a viable strategy bc i like it.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Sure, if you could time it right you could land in E. Canada with Germany and W. USA and Alaska simultaniously before America even sees an invasion happening.  Just bear in mind that America will be drawing 37-38 IPCs a round, that’s plenty to kick you back out again, given what units they’ll probably have staged in E. USA for their assaults.

    And kiss those german trannies goodbye.  You KNOW the American fleet and the allied airforces arn’t going to pass up a sweet target like those!



  • Isnt the whole idea to keep USA from germanies back ?
    So getting germany to help the attack the USA kinda defeats this purpose. It can better be used to attack the UK which can only produce 8 units on their mainland if you got the trannies or attack USSR or afrika.



  • I, for one, LOVE the “Canadian Shield”

    By the end of turn J3, you have…

    W-Can
    5 Jap Inf
    5 Jap Tnk

    E-Can
    5 Ger Inf
    5 Ger Tnk
    1 Jap Bom
    As many AC Jap fighters as you feel like moving over there

    And also a German bomber in W. Europe to aid against E. US

    And it’s cleverly disguised throughout the first two turns by looking like the usual German fleet consolidation and Jap transportation through Bury…

    Then round three comes around, and BAM, while busy trying to ferry gear to it’s Allies, US suddenly has a huge threat to both it’s VCs…even if he can kill all the invading force, it’s a small price to pay for keeping the U.S. COMPLETELY occupied for at least two turns, for a fairly small investment.

    An experienced player usually makes allowance for the possibility when Germany consolidates it’s fleet on G2, but even then, it’s hard for the U.S. to devote what it needs to prevent this double strike from at least partial success while still supplying aid to it’s Allies.

    And God help those Allies if D.C. falls on G4 or J4…  😄


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    I’d like more details on the Canadian Shield.  It might be interesting to try one day.

    Back to the original point though, the question was asked on how to do it successfully.  It was never asked if this was a wise course of action or not.  So we came up with methods to do this, and then started to refine them in a way that it wasn’t a complete waste of units.


  • 2007 AAR League

    I tried a double landing in my first game against TC.  He had 6inf, 2fgt in E. US & 4inf, 1art in W. US.  Germany landed 2inf, 1art, 1tnk in E. Canada & Japan landed 3inf, 3tnk in W. Canada landing 3 planes in E. Canada to cover the German forces.  All was going well, I figured I had a good chance to capture 1 of his IC’s.  Then came the attack his 6inf & 2fgt from E. US against the 2inf, 1art, 1tnk & 3fgt in E. Canada, he wiped out my entire force losing only 4inf.  Game over.  The diversion of all those forces to North America left me nothing in Asia & the allies had Germany surrounded.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @jsp4563:

    I tried a double landing in my first game against TC.  He had 6inf, 2fgt in E. US & 4inf, 1art in W. US.  Germany landed 2inf, 1art, 1tnk in E. Canada & Japan landed 3inf, 3tnk in W. Canada landing 3 planes in E. Canada to cover the German forces.  All was going well, I figured I had a good chance to capture 1 of his IC’s.  Then came the attack his 6inf & 2fgt from E. US against the 2inf, 1art, 1tnk & 3fgt in E. Canada, he wiped out my entire force losing only 4inf.  Game over.  The diversion of all those forces to North America left me nothing in Asia & the allies had Germany surrounded.

    You shoulda had at least one fighter survive and retain the land, wiping out his forces, and that’s low luck…low luck always takes away more forces then you normally would loose in ADS.

    You just had bad dice man!


  • 2007 AAR League

    @Jennifer:

    I’d like more details on the Canadian Shield.  It might be interesting to try one day.

    Jennifer, don’t bother with the Canadian Shield strategy. It’s basically a one-trick pony that won’t work on anyone twice and an astute US player will be able to prepare for it. It just costs a lot of axis money for a 1 shot deal that, should it fail, puts the axis into a big hole.
    I’ve never seen it in action, however. But, it looks to me that the UK/US basically have to let it happen for it to work. It also requires a large group of armor to be stationed in Western Europe for the landings so that is a pretty good indicator. And the Russians should be making good progress in Europe because of all that hardware in Western europe and a ton of German money being spent on TP’s.

    The easiest way to defeat it is for the UK to build a sub in sz7 on UK2. The german fleet won’t be able to load their transports in a hostile sea zone and a 1 turn delay means the UK/US should have enough naval units to crush the German fleet after that.



  • If the US sets up a traditional Shuck pattern, especially if you have a former Classic player using the Classic shuck in Revised, then there is no way in heck you are going to get a free, or even an easy, landing in Canada.  Both ECan and WCan will have somethign like 6-8 divisions there at all times from US2 forward.


  • 2007 AAR League

    i understand all the people i play with have never used this strategy so I haven’t encountered it before.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @U-505:

    @Jennifer:

    I’d like more details on the Canadian Shield.  It might be interesting to try one day.

    Jennifer, don’t bother with the Canadian Shield strategy. It’s basically a one-trick pony that won’t work on anyone twice and an astute US player will be able to prepare for it. It just costs a lot of axis money for a 1 shot deal that, should it fail, puts the axis into a big hole.
    I’ve never seen it in action, however. But, it looks to me that the UK/US basically have to let it happen for it to work. It also requires a large group of armor to be stationed in Western Europe for the landings so that is a pretty good indicator. And the Russians should be making good progress in Europe because of all that hardware in Western europe and a ton of German money being spent on TP’s.

    The easiest way to defeat it is for the UK to build a sub in sz7 on UK2. The german fleet won’t be able to load their transports in a hostile sea zone and a 1 turn delay means the UK/US should have enough naval units to crush the German fleet after that.

    But I wanna use it against the computer!!!  (pout)



  • The most probable way to get to Western United States is to land in Alaska.



  • @U-505:

    Jennifer, don’t bother with the Canadian Shield strategy. It’s basically a one-trick pony that won’t work on anyone twice and an astute US player will be able to prepare for it.

    Yipes! That was a masterful demonstration that you do not understand the move.

    As the paper mentions repeatedly, A) you don’t have to land the killer blow to get value out of the setup, B) you don’t do it in all situations, and C) if you are playing a good transport game, the setup won’t be a deviation from your normal pattern.

    But other than that, you have fully understood the gambit.  :roll:


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @CrazyStraw:

    @U-505:

    Jennifer, don’t bother with the Canadian Shield strategy. It’s basically a one-trick pony that won’t work on anyone twice and an astute US player will be able to prepare for it.

    Yipes! That was a masterful demonstration that you do not understand the move.

    As the paper mentions repeatedly, A) you don’t have to land the killer blow to get value out of the setup, B) you don’t do it in all situations, and C) if you are playing a good transport game, the setup won’t be a deviation from your normal pattern.

    But other than that, you have fully understood the gambit.  :roll:

    And the setup proceedure is……(insert drum roll here)


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